Thread: Students rally to back Alien Minors Act

By the way, Americans haven't built America to what it is today. Slaves and immigrant labor did it.

So only slaves and immigrants built America? PROVE IT!!! My family goes way back and they didn't have slaves. They did the work themselves. In fact they even broke the sod here themselves. Without my ancestors and other US citizens Nebraska wouldn't be the "bread basket".

I've got pictures of US citizens building the lakes, canals, houses, schools and other infrastructure in my town and the surrounding areas. The pictures go back to the beginning of this area. If they were immigrants they were legal immigrants not illegal.

By the way, Americans haven't built America to what it is today. Slaves and immigrant labor did it. The high rises, the White House, the roads. People who started off at the very bottom of America's social ladder built America - people who weren't even considered American built America. I can give you sources, at your request, for your perusal.

Playing the old and worn out SLAVE CARD? The "America is a nation of Immigrants Card?

Again, not going to fly. It seems that you need an American History lesson rather than a 'history re-written lesson.'

You know all those roads, high rises, ditches, tunnels, etc.?

Well, as it goes, MY ANCESTORS -LEGAL IMMIGRANTS - NOT ILLEGAL ALIENS - helped to build them along with all the other AMERICANS that worked their fingers to the bone withOUT govenment entitlements in order to educate their children and create the America that we now know.

Don't lay the slave garbage on. Slaves made up a small percentage of America for a given period of time. America, as in most of the West, used a massive workforce of 'indentured immigrant servants' as well as Legal immigrants with SKILLS and proof that they would NOT be a burden on society!! Health screening even then, was very important to our society. We ended diseases.......NOT fostered them.

Those slaves' ancestors are Americans. We, Americans, have worked very hard to grow, right wrongs and improve. However, the socialist/communists in this great country, the most giving nation on this planet, has destroyed our American educational system --- on brick at a time. And they've managed to accomplish this thru REDISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH among other linchpins.

While you're speaking of SLAVES, how about you speak of all the SLAVE NATIONS that exist today while the USofA is dumping money around the world to help end it? Why not speak of Africa, where the slave trade is still in existance? How about in the Islamic nations? China? North Korea?
MEXICO?

Give me a break...........don't pull the slave / immigrant card..........it only serves to make you appear as a parrot, squawking the same ole same ole mantra.

Our educational system is being further eroded by catering to NON CITIZENS, ILLEGAL ALIENS thru entitlements that Americans are paying for. Should these people choose to better themselves, then they had better high tail it back where they belong and improve their own nations.
You see, human nature being what it is..........they are merely bringing their corruption, crime and violence with them and turning each area where they settle into the same from which they ran.

Sad but FACT. 70% of the ILLEGAL criminals have a rap sheet.
Repetative criminals. Approx 28% of our jails are ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Considering the percentages, it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a financial expert to see the TRUTH. Illegal Aliens create exactly that which they ran from.

YES, ALIPAC certainly does have an agenda which is transparent for all to see. We support LEGAL immigration and are completely opposed to this ILLEGAL INVASION.

Your point?

At many schools, valedictorians and salutetorians have increasingly been international students.

So your point is? International students don't pay in state tuitition. By many do you mean five or ten schools or hundreds of schools?

LALA is pushing the DREAM ACT for ILLEGALS!!!

Uh ohhhhh, looks like this one wants more AMERICAN TAX DOLLARS dumped into American Education for FOREIGN students. How transparent can one get?

At many schools, valedictorians and salutetorians have increasingly been international students.

Had the number of international students stayed rather 'flat', then I guess that would be noteworthy. But, the trends have been toward an even greater number of international students in many academic fields.

We've heard your arguments all before - the Globalist/Libertarian agenda - where, individual effort and accomplishments are all that supposedly matter.

Where you are wrong, is that in this country and to most people, laws still matter. Or, looking at the problem from the reverse, one could also say that many criminals also 'work hard to succeed'. The problem is that there is no safe way of saying 'this type of law-breaking' is better than 'that type of law-breaking'. Profiting by breaking the law is still wrong and ought not to be rewarded. I don't care how hard someone 'works' to succeed. People that have shown a willingness and ability to live within society's legal mandates should always be given preference over those that have shown otherwise.

Originally Posted by lala

You want education to be based on merit or based on citizenship?

CITIZENSHIP!



Is this what you want, lala

Originally Posted by lala

If you really want to know my agenda about fixing the American school system, I'm of the opinion that we need some kind of privatization or voucher system.

Or, we can get have a rational immigration policy. One that doesn't promote massive waves of Third Worlders to drag down our school system.

By the way, Americans haven't built America to what it is today. Slaves and immigrant labor did it. The high rises, the White House, the roads. People who started off at the very bottom of America's social ladder built America - people who weren't even considered American built America. I can give you sources, at your request, for your perusal.

Give me sources that American citizens didn't build this nation. The vast majority of people who live here were born here. This nation has gone through periods where we had very little immigration at all. The other periods were characterized by LEGAL immigration and highly regulated immigration. And its nice to know that you promote slavery. Its cheap and economically efficient, right?

Although could easily say "then don't teach them", I think that's kind of foolhardy only because you will potentially create an illiterate underclass and would have more kids on the street. Until America has a system that can fluidly find and deport every last child, this will be the reality.

If we get rid of educating as well as employing and all of the other illegal activities that we give to ILLEGALS they will leave our country. That is what we want.

Education is supposed to be a system of meritocracy. If this is an incorrect assumption, please do explain to me why it shouldn't be or isn't.

Its incorrect to believe that our system owes illegal Third Worlders anything. I don't care about there merit or lack there of. They need to get out of our nation.

Wanting your kid to go to Harvard isn't the same as your kid actually putting in the effort thereby earning his way to Harvard. I actually go to an Ivy League institution and bottom line is that you don't get anything if you don't put in the work (to put it mildly). At many schools, valedictorians and salutetorians have increasingly been international students. I guess we should deport them since they've taken the spots of US Citizens who could have made it, but actually didn't.

We need to do what we did in the past when foreign countries were outcompeting us. Improve the education in the math and the sciences of AMERICANS. We need to stop exporting our tech, get out of debt to foreign nations, and stop being dependent on foreingers.

Bottom line: You want education to be based on merit or based on citizenship? In Corporate America, I assure you, it's all merit based. If you don't cut it, you get fired. In Education, you get the A if you put in the work. Simple. If these kids put in the work and beat out all their classmates, that's Capitalism and Individualism at its BEST![/i]

[/quote]
I want my nation to exist. You don't. So, you are not a commie. You are a Wall Street one-worlder. You are worse than a communist. Go back to the Chamber of Commerce and work on the NAU legislation. You'll be more efficient that way.

So only slaves and immigrants built America? PROVE IT!!! My family goes way back and they didn't have slaves. They did the work themselves. In fact they even broke the sod here themselves. Without my ancestors and other US citizens Nebraska wouldn't be the "bread basket".

I've got pictures of US citizens building the lakes, canals, houses, schools and other infrastructure in my town and the surrounding areas. The pictures go back to the beginning of this area. If they were immigrants they were legal immigrants not illegal.

Unless you and your family are Native American, you too, my dear friend are a descendant of immigrants. That was what I was basically implying, but I did not make my self clear upon retrospection. Thus, I should qualify my statement that:

By the way, Americans haven't built America to what it is today. Slaves and immigrant labor did it.

Eh, my statement is kind of circular. Technically speaking, once an immigrant family settled in America, all of their subsequent children are American. Of course, America wasn't always receptive towards immigrant classes and those who of course did hard manual labor were Americans technically, but their family nationality of origin was Irish, German, Russian, etc. It would be interesting if you went back into those pictures and were able to find out the nationality of the U.S citizens who were building America.

Consequently, I still maintain that immigrant labor and slaves built America. Of course, we can consider them American since they were granted status as such through birth or by law in the case of slaves.

Preliminary Links:

http://www.whitehousehistory.org/06/subs/06_a04.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_House

Forgive me for using Wikipedia for the moment. I actually have to head out and do some errands, however, I will provide the scholarly articles necessary to prove my points later on.

And you bring up the interesting point that these people were "legal immigrants" and not "illegal". I'm curious as to whether or not the U.S had defined "illegal" in immigration policy prior to 1960s and 80s when immigration became a really big problem. Nowadays, you need to show proof of employability in order to work in the U.S. Not sure what it was like in the 1940s and 50s. Sure, there were quotas and visas. But I'm just as sure that there were others who fell through the cracks and were able to get in. And I bet you it was relatively easy to forge documents and I bet you it wasn't hard to get a social security number (at one point, didn't all immigrants get a social security number automatically when they came into the U.S? Or was it foreign students only?)

However, this is far from the topic at hand. Have a blessed day[/quote]

Technically speaking, once an immigrant family settled in America, all of their subsequent children are American. Of course, America wasn't always receptive towards immigrant classes and those who of course did hard manual labor were Americans technically, but their family nationality of origin was Irish, German, Russian, etc. It would be interesting if you went back into those pictures and were able to find out the nationality of the U.S citizens who were building America.

1. Are you speaking of IMMIGRANTS or ILLEGAL ALIENS?
there is a distinction but I'm certain that you are aware of that tiny detail.

2. Which country can you name that has always been RECEPTIVE to IMMIGRANTS?

3. Which country can you name that has never had a 'class or cast' system?

4. What is YOUR point concerning the nationalities of American LEGAL IMMIGRANTS?

5. Which, among the American LEGAL IMMIGRANTS refused to assimilate into American society while graciously honoring the rich cultures that they brought with them?

6. Which group of LEGAL IMMIGRANTS did the U.S. government cater to within the context of language, education and the RULE OF LAW?

You're sinking quickly.

Wow, in the time that I wrote my first response it seems as if I received a lot of feedback. I just wanted to make this quick before it gets any worse so I can go on for the rest of my day.

I would like to re-iterate that yes, I am a supporter of the DREAM Act. Furthermore, I would seriously like to have an educated policy discussion of this act and I hope that it won't degenerate into a flame fest. I hope that my tone has been reflective of that effort, and I do hope that you give me the same courtesy. Let me know if you think otherwise and I will try to amend my postings.

Bottom line is that I have an opinion and you have a contrary opinion. I'm not here to push an agenda. I just like being able to debate my opinion in a civilized manner. I know immigration is a passionate issue, but at the same time, I think we're all here are human and adult enough to maintain a respectful conversation.

Thanks, and have a good day,