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Thread: Ted Cruz’s Plan To Deport Undocumented Immigrants Is Even Worse Than Trump’s

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  1. #1
    MW
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    Ted Cruz’s Plan To Deport Undocumented Immigrants Is Even Worse Than Trump’s

    IMMIGRATION

    Ted Cruz’s Plan To Deport Undocumented Immigrants Is Even Worse Than Trump’s

    BY ESTHER YU-HSI LEE JAN 5, 2016 2:58 PM

    CREDIT: AP PHOTO/SUSAN WALSH

    Republican Presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas speaks at the Republican Jewish Coalition Presidential Forum in Washington, Thursday, Dec. 3, 2015.


    GOP presidential candidate Ted Cruz’s latest position on undocumented immigrants is so extreme that it makes Donald Trump — who has become infamous for his harsh, xenophobic anti-immigrant remarks on the campaign trail — look tame in comparison.

    During a stop in Boone, IA this week, Cruz said that he would support deporting the country’s 11.3 million undocumented immigrants without ever giving them a chance to come back to the country. Trump, meanwhile, has said he would deport all undocumented immigrants but allow the “really good people” to move back to the United States.


    Cruz’s latest comments came in response to a question that specifically contrasted his immigration stance with Trump’s and asked whether he supported “deporting all the illegal immigrants.”


    “Absolutely,” Cruz replied, adding that “there’s a difference” between him and Donald Trump.


    “He’s advocated allowing folks to come back in and become citizens. I oppose that,” Cruz said. “So, if you read — I have a very detailed 11-page immigration proposal that’s on my website — it’s TedCruz.org — it was designed with Steve King and Jeff Sessions. [They] were the two who sat down with me to prepare it and it is enforce the law across the board.”


    Cruz’s response came just a day before his campaign dropped “Invasion,” a new ad featuring men and women in business attire running through a river in what could pass for the the Rio Grande Valley border region of Texas. The ad features dramatic music, distraught actors, and an ominous voiceover from Cruz claiming that people would care more about immigration reform as a “personal economic issue” if lawyers, bankers, and journalists were “crossing the Rio Grande” and “driving down the wages.”


    As Vox pointed out, the TV spot appears to be an attempt to repackage Trump’s extreme anti-immigrant rhetoric in a more palatable way. The publication noted that “what Cruz is doing here, basically, is looking past Trump to a showdown with Marco Rubio in which Cruz is going to want to mobilize Trump’s voters (hence the focus on the immigration issue) while putting a more acceptable gloss on the substance by focusing on economics.”


    Cruz was the GOP’s anti-establishment rabble-rouser before Trump, winning endorsementsfrom evangelicals, Tea Party voters, and the support of anti-immigrant lawmakers like Rep. Steve King (R-IA). But since Trump sharply rose in the polls and has held onto the frontrunner spot, Cruz has had to battle Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) as a Trump alternate.


    Now, the two may be starting to close the gap. As of Tuesday, Cruz’s poll numbers have risen in Iowa, a state that’s important for its first-in-the-nation caucuses. And according to the Field Poll, among Republican voters in California, “the difference between Cruz’s and Trump’s numbers is within the poll’s margin of error.”


    Setting aside for a moment that an operation to carry out the mass deportation of 11.3 million people could cost $114 billion, and that the vast majority of undocumented immigrants do not have criminal records, Cruz’s suggestion could also affect immigrants coerced into deportation.


    In 2014, the American Civil Liberties Union of San Diego settled Lopez-Venegas v. Johnson, a class-action lawsuit against the Department of Homeland Security, after nine Mexican nationals alleged they were coerced into signing documents allowing for their “voluntary return” back to their countries of origin. The individuals alleged that they were not given a chance to be heard by an immigration judge, even though they may have qualified for legal status under certain circumstances.


    http://thinkprogress.org/immigration...-trumps-trump/







    Last edited by MW; 01-28-2016 at 06:57 PM.

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  2. #2
    MW
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    Thank you for the elaboration, Ted Cruz.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    10:16 am ET
    Jan 10, 2016
    2016

    Ted Cruz Rejects Trump Plan for Mass Deportation Roundup

    By Harriet Torry

    WASHINGTON–Texas Sen. Ted Cruz says he doesn’t support sending forces to round up and deport illegal immigrants, likening such a policy to “a police state.”

    “I don’t intend to send jackboots to knock on your door and every door in America, that’s not how we enforce the law for any crime,” Mr. Cruz told CNN in an interview broadcast Sunday.

    Mr. Cruz’s top GOP presidential rival, Donald Trump, has called for a “deportation force” to remove the roughly 11 million immigrants in the country illegally.

    “That is not how American law enforcement works, we also don’t have people going door-to-door looking for murderers, we don’t live in a police state,” Mr. Cruz said.

    The Texas senator spoke up for the employment-verification program E-Verify and the criminal law enforcement system to combat illegal immigration.

    “Federal immigration law says if we apprehend an individual who is here illegally, they are to be deported. I will enforce the law,” Mr. Cruz told CNN.

    In the interview, the Republican presidential candidate also hit back at Mr. Trump’s suggestion that Mr. Cruz may not be constitutionally eligible to serve as president because he was born in Calgary, Canada.

    “The Constitution and federal law are clear that the child of a U.S. citizen board abroad is a natural-born citizen,” Mr. Cruz said, adding his Wilmington, Delaware-born mother never voted in Canada and has been a U.S. citizen “all 81 years of her life.”

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/0...grant-roundup/

    __________________________

    Ted Cruz only supports deportation of illegal aliens AFTER they've committed another crime and been apprehended for it. He doesn't support a deportation force, he doesn't support mass deportations quickly, just after they break the law doing some other harm to our country and citizens, then he'll enforce the law.

    That is much weaker, because that's basically the status quo we have now. And poor Ted, he doesn't know that police officers DO go door to door looking for murderers and other types of criminals as well as pursue other types of law enforcement procedures to round up the criminals, arrest and prosecute them.
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    MW
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    Trump's idea of kicking in doors, hauling people out by their hair, and stuffing them in cattle cars headed South just won't work. Unfortunately the American people won't stand for such strong arm tactics. Trump may have not said those things in the exact way I did, but that is the only way you can round up 20+ illegals in 2 years or less.

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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    If you don't support mass deportations, which I do, which is rounding them up and deporting them en masse, then that's fine. But I fail to understand your concern about some "very good ones" coming back when you don't want them deported to begin with. I totally support mass deportations and Trump said he would do it with "good management" and do it "humanely".

    I think he'll have a good plan that will work well.

    But of course, you're free to support the status quo. Alot of people did for a long time, but now most people want them deported en masse quickly. NumbersUSA just released a study that 72% of Americans want people here on expired visas deported, so you can only imagine how high the support is for those who entered illegally.
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  6. #6
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    If you don't support mass deportations, which I do, which is rounding them up and deporting them en masse, then that's fine. But I fail to understand your concern about some "very good ones" coming back when you don't want them deported to begin with. I totally support mass deportations and Trump said he would do it with "good management" and do it "humanely".

    I think he'll have a good plan that will work well.

    But of course, you're free to support the status quo. Alot of people did for a long time, but now most people want them deported en masse quickly. NumbersUSA just released a study that 72% of Americans want people here on expired visas deported, so you can only imagine how high the support is for those who entered illegally.
    Why do you attempt to paint everyone that doesn't think exactly like you as the enemy. I'm not your enemy and I do support mass deportation. However, I am realistic enough to know it's not possible to deport 20-30 million illegals in two years or less unless you plan on kicking in doors, hauling people out of their beds by gunpoint at midnight, raiding trailer parks, churches, etc., in full force. Do I support these things? Sure I do, however, the American people wouldn't stand for this long enough to round up 5 million, much less 20-30 million. We have to be realistic in our expectations. Cruz has the right idea and his plan will work. Will it work in two years or less .... probably not, but no plan based on the reality of the situation will. This just isn't a problem that can be fixed that quickly. Of course, deep down, I think you know that. If Cruz had promised to deport 20-30 million illegals in two years, you would have probably called him crazy for even suggesting such a thing.

    If you actually think all our immigration and border security problems can be fixed in two years or less, than you're not as in touch with the situation as I thought. Cruz's plan is sensible, realistic, and it will work.

    Judy wrote (excerpt):

    But I fail to understand your concern about some "very good ones" coming back when you don't want them deported to begin with.
    Are you saying you support and expedited return of the so-called good illegals after they're deported? I certainly didn't say it, but the way your sentence is worded it would appear as if you didn't have a problem with it. That is unfortunate because such an act would be amnesty.

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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    I support mass deportations at the rate of 20 million a year until they're all gone.

    I support a 10 to 20 Year Moratorium on All New Immigration.

    I support a 40,000 person Wall of Americans To Secure the Southern Border.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    I support mass deportations at the rate of 20 million a year until they're all gone.

    I support a 10 to 20 Year Moratorium on All New Immigration.

    I support a 40,000 person Wall of Americans To Secure the Southern Border.
    Sure, I support those thing too, but like the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause, I won't be expecting to see them during my lifetime. And anyone that promises they can deliver them during the next four years, I won't believe. I'm all for lofty goals, but they need to at least have a chance of being achievable.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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    Senior Member ReformUSA2012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Trump's idea of kicking in doors, hauling people out by their hair, and stuffing them in cattle cars headed South just won't work. Unfortunately the American people won't stand for such strong arm tactics. Trump may have not said those things in the exact way I did, but that is the only way you can round up 20+ illegals in 2 years or less.
    Who said anything about needing to do any of that? What do you think will happen when we simply remove all the incentives? How can most of these illegal aliens survive in the US without those incentives?

    1. No jobs, any employer hiring illegal aliens will lose their business license and jail time. Mandatory E-Verify and E-Verify fully tied into the SSA system checking on multiple use of the same SSN, minor SSN use, and elderly over 70 SSN use for checks.
    2. No automatic citizenship for children of illegal aliens and tourists. And yes this can be done through Congress or even an Executive Order w/o amending the Constitution by interpreting intent of the 14th Amendment. The SCOTUS wouldn't even have authority to challenge Congress on that matter.
    3. Removal of all education for children of illegal aliens citing the very ruling that gave illegal alien children free education as having a significant financial impact and thus a detrimental effect on the quality of education for citizens.
    4. Removing ALL welfare type benefits for illegal aliens and their children.
    5. Making it a misdemeanor to felony to transport or even rent to illegal aliens.
    6. Ban all states from giving any form of ID to illegal aliens and banning the use of Mexican Matricular cards as a form of acceptable ID.
    7. Mandate police to check the immigration status of any potential illegal alien and notify ICE.
    8. Allow the local police to confiscate all monies and goods of illegal aliens as proceeds of a crime.

    The US would become so inhospitable towards illegal aliens most would pack up and leave on their own. Out of the supposed 12 million (more like 20-30 million) likely 90-95% would voluntarily leave. They could even allow a 6 month grace period from a specific period won't face a 3yr, 10 yr, or perm ban which would allow *family reunification* assuming someone meets the normal criteria and has no criminal record.

    Its nonsense to talk about how we need to round them all up. Most of them come specifically because of the benefits we give them. Remove those benefits and the US isn't such a friendly place for an illegal alien anymore. Further much of it could likely be paid for through major fines and even business confiscation of employers of illegal aliens. That business that thrives on hiring an illegal alien staff rather then legal workers can be closed down and have all assets seized by law as proceeds of a crime.
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  10. #10
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReformUSA2012 View Post
    Who said anything about needing to do any of that? What do you think will happen when we simply remove all the incentives? How can most of these illegal aliens survive in the US without those incentives?

    1. No jobs, any employer hiring illegal aliens will lose their business license and jail time. Mandatory E-Verify and E-Verify fully tied into the SSA system checking on multiple use of the same SSN, minor SSN use, and elderly over 70 SSN use for checks.
    2. No automatic citizenship for children of illegal aliens and tourists. And yes this can be done through Congress or even an Executive Order w/o amending the Constitution by interpreting intent of the 14th Amendment. The SCOTUS wouldn't even have authority to challenge Congress on that matter.
    3. Removal of all education for children of illegal aliens citing the very ruling that gave illegal alien children free education as having a significant financial impact and thus a detrimental effect on the quality of education for citizens.
    4. Removing ALL welfare type benefits for illegal aliens and their children.
    5. Making it a misdemeanor to felony to transport or even rent to illegal aliens.
    6. Ban all states from giving any form of ID to illegal aliens and banning the use of Mexican Matricular cards as a form of acceptable ID.
    7. Mandate police to check the immigration status of any potential illegal alien and notify ICE.
    8. Allow the local police to confiscate all monies and goods of illegal aliens as proceeds of a crime.

    The US would become so inhospitable towards illegal aliens most would pack up and leave on their own. Out of the supposed 12 million (more like 20-30 million) likely 90-95% would voluntarily leave. They could even allow a 6 month grace period from a specific period won't face a 3yr, 10 yr, or perm ban which would allow *family reunification* assuming someone meets the normal criteria and has no criminal record.

    Its nonsense to talk about how we need to round them all up. Most of them come specifically because of the benefits we give them. Remove those benefits and the US isn't such a friendly place for an illegal alien anymore. Further much of it could likely be paid for through major fines and even business confiscation of employers of illegal aliens. That business that thrives on hiring an illegal alien staff rather then legal workers can be closed down and have all assets seized by law as proceeds of a crime.
    You have misunderstood the conversation or failed to read the entire thread. I never said you had to do those things, but I did say that is what it would take to deport 20-30 million illegals in two years are less.

    As for the rest of your post, I agree with you 100% and have made the same comment on here before. Of course those things you list, as I've said before, will work, but they won't work in two years or less. Unfortunately it's a process that will probably take at least one, maybe two, presidential terms to get where we need to be. Cruz's plan will do that and I'm sure Trump can make it happen in that amount of time too, but neither can make it happen in two years or less. This is not a quick fix problem and nobody is going to wave a magic wand and make it happen overnight. It's a process, a process that will take most of the things you suggested and maybe more.

    Furthermore, I believe in attrition through enforcement. We start enforcing our immigration laws like they're supposed to be enforced and we'll see things start to turn in the right direction quickly, however, we unfortunately won't see the departure of 20-30 million illegals in two years or less. That will probably take 4-8 years (IMO).

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