Thread: Ted Nugent flimflammed by alleged fair tax!

Originally Posted by Judy

USPatriot, I've just picked myself up off the floor after reading this revelation on another website and wasn't sure what to do with it. FYI! Let me know if you're as shocked as I am.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/23/ron-paul-ny-mosque/


Paul said, explaining that the rights of minorities must be protected, even when it’s unpopular.

The point being is that majorities can become oppressors of minority rights as well as individual dictators. Statistics of support is irrelevant when it comes to the purpose of government in a free society—protecting liberty. [...]

Paul is the first national Republican leader to break with the party and call out the undercurrents of Islamaphobia in the opposition to the mosque. He is also likely to offend some of his own supporters, as many in the tea party movement have come out in strong opposition to the Park 51 project. (HT: Glenn Greenwald)

Shame on You Ron Paul. Shame, Shame, Shame On You.

Wake Up Folks. Pass the FairTax so at least the traitors who want Muslim Mosques built next to Ground Zero and Open Borders and Free Trade Treason can't fund it with our money.

GRRRRR!!![/quote]
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Actually I am not surprised. RP is all about the constituition and personal freedom.

I do not agree with him on this and some other beliefs but I am truely fond of him. His brutal honesty and his total commitment to our founding fathers doctrines and our constituition is very admiral IMO

I beleive in religous freedom as long as it does not serve to deny other people their rights.

IMO The Mosque anger is about insensitivity NOT religion.

Going to be honest here. Judy has given me the bollocks to vote on such a measure, yet you nay sayers have swayed me otherwise. I'm afraid I still don't know what do think. Judy has thoroughly proven her points, yet you guys have a great point. The liberal side of me agrees with Judy, yet my conservative side has me doubting. Both sides have good points, but since I naturally distrust government, I don't know if fair tax is the way to go. Again, Judy has some great points. Ideally, this is up my alley, but I just don't think the implementation would go according to plan.

I would like to know what Richard has to say.

Originally Posted by GaPatriot

Just because illegals are prohibited from the allowance doesn't mean that they will not receive it anyway. They use false documentation, state they have children they don't have, use false social security numbers.

They have lawyers who assist them in receiving programs such as Medicaid and Section 8 and Earned Income Tax Credit. They are receiving unemployment money. They get food stamps. They are voting. They are driving with fake licenses.

It will be one more program that will benefit illegals the most until or unless we have some kind of secure ID. And our government won't let that happen because they want them here.

These programs don't verify the Social Security number with the Social Security Administration. Under the FairTax, the Social Security Administration handles the Rebates and will verify the numbers.

Originally Posted by DarthIllegal

Going to be honest here. Judy has given me the bollocks to vote on such a measure, yet you nay sayers have swayed me otherwise. I'm afraid I still don't know what do think. Judy has thoroughly proven her points, yet you guys have a great point. The liberal side of me agrees with Judy, yet my conservative side has me doubting. Both sides have good points, but since I naturally distrust government, I don't know if fair tax is the way to go. Again, Judy has some great points. Ideally, this is up my alley, but I just don't think the implementation would go according to plan.

I would like to know what Richard has to say.

Thank you DarthIllegal, and you raise a good point as well which is "I just don't think the implementation would go according to plan." But that is the case with everything we try to do. There will be kinks and bugs that have to be ironed out once the law passes and is being implemented by the states. That's another great aspect of the FairTax. The states actually run the program. They collect it, they monitor it and they enforce it. There is also a federal enforcement duty to oversee the states and any state that chooses not to collect it. There are already 45 states which collect sales taxes. Their state sales tax forms would be modified to add a line for the FairTax, so the procedure is the same, the gross receipts the number is based upon is the same gross receipts figure the states use to collect their own sales taxes, so from this standpoint, the collection aspect should go as planned with perhaps from computer bugs here and there and a little confusion on who is to sign up to be a retail tax collector, whicih are all sellers of new products and services, not used ones, to consumers, not business to business transactions because those are all exempt.

So, under the FairTax, we the people pay the tax, private businesses collect it, states collect it from the private businesses, and then the states transmit it to the feds once a month.

Both the private businesses who collect the tax as well as the states who collect it from them are paid a fee, a percent of their collections, to compensate them for the service they are providing. The fee is 1/2 of 1 percent of the total collected, not to exceed 20% of the total collections.

As a result, no business or state will feel like they're doing work for us for nothing, because they are compensated, and they are also motivated by the commission type fee to collect the tax as prescribed under the law since it benefits them to do so. Since states will make money collecting the tax, they should support the repeal of the 16th Amendment when the legislation gets to their desk for ratification. In addition, I think it will work so well that other levels of government will want to change the way they collect taxes and adopt a state and local version of the FairTax as well, since most cities and counties also have sales taxes that are collected by the states presently.

For those 5 states who don't have sales taxes, they can either set up a section to collect the FairTax, and receive the fee for doing so; hire another state to do it or them and share the fee; or the feds will do it for them and they forfeit the fee. Their choice.

The FairTax is a step forward to tax liberty.

1. No one is forced to pay it unless they buy a new product or service

2. No one is forced to collect it unless they are a retail business selling new products and services to the public in which case they are compensated for the service

3. No one is forced to register for the Rebate, it's purely voluntary

4. No one is forced to report income or expenses unless they are a retail tax collector in which case they only report those gross sales, and they are compensated for doing so

The FairTax is as clean, simple, state-based, and citizen-controlled tax system as it will ever get. If people don't want to exempt essentials through the Rebate, I have no problem with that at all, but one of the main complaints about the FairTax has been by people complaining about taxing food and necessities of life, before they realized the Rebate is the tool that exempts all the food and necessities of life for everyone up the poverty consumption level, that is NOT determined by the FairTax, but is a long established allowance set by the Department of Health and Human Services to measure poverty in the United States.

And no one ever has to file an income tax return of any kind ever again, not on their personal income, not on business income, not on death, or for gift, or on interest, wages, dividends, capital gains or any other form of income.

Just look around at all the time and money spent on tax returns, an act of providing information to the government about your life, work and/or business that is none of the business of government. Think about the hundreds of billions of dollars spent on accountants, lawyers, tax preparers and your own time filing these returns. Think about the penalties and interest and prosecutions and jail time when for whatever reason someone didn't do it right or did but the government said they didn't. Income-based taxation along with property taxes are the worst invasions of both privacy and liberty that we have in our country.

We all talk about taking our country back, and we must! But, we can't even begin to take our country back until we take our privacy, liberty and money back and control the purse strings of government. The FairTax allows the American People to take back their privacy, their liberty and their money free of government intrusion, the way it should be.

And for those who might say, "they already know everything about me because I've filed taxes for 30 years." Well, the FairTax legislation requires by federal law that the IRS destroy all of its tax records on everyone within 1 year following passage of the law, the same date that the IRS is shut down by the FairTax legislation. The FairTax legislation also prohibits any future funding of the IRS.

Now, all the time and money spent on filing tax returns stays at home with you. You are enriched the day it passes, you have your privacy back, your liberty back, your money back and now you steer your life from then on. Now you not only have your money back, with the privacy and liberty to spend it as you choose, you can now decide who gets it when you do.

Additionally, there is another aspect of the FairTax that we'll all love, which is transparency. Because the states collect it, they can report it every month. Americans will know monthly how much FairTaxes were collected by each state. No longer will citizens be in the dark Googling through the internet trying to find out how much money the government is collecting. It will be published each month by the states to the press and be as common a piece of knowledge as unemployment rates. There will be media commentaries that make discussing federal FairTax revenues, why they went up, why they went down, etc., etc., etc. which because they're tied to our GDP, will help every American to monitor both our government and our economy.

Follow The Light. Pass the FairTax.

www.fairtax.org

Originally Posted by USPatriot

Actually I am not surprised. RP is all about the constituition and personal freedom.

I do not agree with him on this and some other beliefs but I am truely fond of him. His brutal honesty and his total commitment to our founding fathers doctrines and our constituition is very admiral IMO

I beleive in religous freedom as long as it does not serve to deny other people their rights.

IMO The Mosque anger is about insensitivity NOT religion.

Oh sure! We all support freedom of religion, but the Mosque next to Ground Zero isn't a church, it's a community/cultural center to be owned by not-for-profit tax-exempt entities that haven't even been formed yet, who don't have an owner, an operator, an architect, an engineer, or even one blueprint or engineering plan. They also don't own the real estate since they haven't bought it yet and furthermore, the developers who want to buy it and flip it, have no money to buy it with or build anything on it.

It's a hoax. America has been deceived once again. For Ron Paul to call me a Hater or an Islamaphobe because I oppose this Muslim community/cultural center "Mosque That Isn't" at Ground Zero is shameful. Ron Paul knows not one iota more about the US Constitution or "freedom of religion" than I or most Americans whose families have been around these parts since before the Revolutionary War.

For him to jump on a bandwagon throwing the phony race, hate and religious cards at anyone, let alone the Americans whose families have fought for the very Constitution he claims to understand including fighting with their lives for the very Amendment he claims to know, has destroyed all his credibility on many things.

The 14th Amendment guarantees everyone equal protection under the law. Opposing a hoax in Lower Manhattan through the zoning and planning boards is a right guaranteed by that Amendment, not the other way around.

If I or anyone else has to appear at a public hearing to get a zoning change or a building plan approved, public hearings that are filled to the rafters with Americans opposing the variance or permit every day across the country for any and all reasons they may have, then this Muslim Outfit is subject to the same laws, the same hearings, the same public comments, the same process as anyone else, under the 14th Amendment.

And no, we don't consider someone who shows up and speaks out at a zoning or planning board hearing a "hater" or a "phobe" of some type because they oppose a new building project.

Ron Paul stepped his butt right into the sewer of self-serving political ignorance to try to exploit a development hoax in New York City to express his opposition once again to the War in Iraq.

And that is as far from the Constitution as one can get. The reason we have public hearings on zoning and planning matters is so the people have a chance to speak and be heard, not politicians. The entire building process in our country is based upon domestic tranquility, a matter addressed and stated as clearly as it can be stated in the Preamble of the US Constitution. Maybe Ron should re-read the Constitution starting with the Preamble. No developer has any guaranteed Constitutional rights under the US Constitution to build anything. They are all subject to the whim of the people who will have to build it, protect it, work in it, drive by it and look at it. And in this instance, where the plan is to form a bevvy of 501 C 3 not-for-profit tax-exempt entities to own and operate the damn thing, then every American with a voice box or a computer or a pen has every damn right to oppose it, because guess what? We're paying for it.

Stop the Madness. Pass the FairTax.

www.fairtax.org

Originally Posted by Judy

JWK, you are the one making a fool of yourself thinking that the Rebate applies only to those earning $40k-$50k or less annually when nothing could be further from the truth.

Judy, my dearest,

It is very telling that you have decided to intentionally misrepresent what I have posted. In no post in this thread have I even remotely suggested the monthly government allowance will only be sent to those earning $40K-$50K or less. You just made that up! As a matter of fact I specifically pointed out the family consumption allowance would not affect the more “affluentâ€

I thought Ron Paul wanted the flat tax. That seems to me to be the best idea out there.