Thread: Trump Says Same-Sex Marriage Is Settled Law, Abortion Isn’t

In my opinion, we have killed too many wonderful people through abortion. People who would have done great things and who would have loved and been loved. So sad.

Late term abortions and to kill a baby just before it is delivered doesn't speak well of us as human beings, created by God.

The debate about abortion is really about birth control and the Catholic Church's prohibitions against it. The power of the Catholic Church to create and sustain the narrative about abortion continue to obscure its continuing loss of authority in this matter. The Pill, the birth control hormone treatment that so many women use induces menstruation even when an egg is fertilized. It aborts the fertilized egg that would otherwise mature, to first an embryo, then a fetus which then matures to the point where it is born to become an infant. This is abortion to those opposed to abortion on moral grounds.

RU486 and other such morning after pills apply the same principles outside the scheduled regimen of the birth control pills except that the dosage and maybe the hormone itself are not preventative, but are introduced after the pregnancy is detected. For "Pro Life" advocates, there is no significant difference. Inducing menstruation after a pregnancy has been detected is more problematic to the biology of the woman, the more developed the embryo, the more complicated is the resumption of menstruation. There is lot more tissue involved and the medical consequences are increasingly risky. The more developed the embryo, the more developed is the supporting cardiovascular structure linking the woman's biology to the tissue of the embryo or fetus. I don't know the details of allowed applications of the morning after pill, but after a certain level of development in the fetus, it might be too risky to try to induce menstruation. After a certain point, what you are really doing is inducing a miscarriage. A physical abortion where the physician actually applies a vacuum or something to the contents of the uterus might be safer.

But the point remains, morning after pills take abortion away from the control of the state because no doctor is involved. If this becomes a state's issue so that abortion is outlawed in these states, then it is more likely that morning after pills will cross state lines then women will.

And late term abortions are a straw dog to the issue. The only time late term abortions recommended by physicians is the well know case of prenatal hydrocephalus where the head of the fetus becomes swollen and hardened with fluid so that trying to pass it out of the woman's vagina becomes a threat to the woman's health and reproductive tissue. Otherwise, the only real safe thing to do for the woman who is this advanced in a pregnancy is to give birth.

I think Trump will favor reversing federal intrusions into states rights, or otherwise seek to allow states greater latitude.

pkskyali wrote (excerpt):

And late term abortions are a straw dog to the issue. The only time late term abortions recommended by physicians is the well know case of prenatal hydrocephalus where the head of the fetus becomes swollen and hardened with fluid so that trying to pass it out of the woman's vagina becomes a threat to the woman's health and reproductive tissue. Otherwise, the only real safe thing to do for the woman who is this advanced in a pregnancy is to give birth.

Nothing about late-term abortions are "straw dog" in the argument. Regardless of what doctors recommend, they are still happening regularly. Some women have them simply because of relationship breakups.

Originally Posted by MW

pkskyali wrote (excerpt):

Nothing about late-term abortions are "straw dog" in the argument. Regardless of what doctors recommend, they are still happening regularly. Some women have them simply because of relationship breakups.

What is "late term" to you? How many months? I am talking about "partial birth abortions", the holy, bloody shirt of the anti-abortionists.

Originally Posted by pkskyali

What is "late term" to you? How many months? I am talking about "partial birth abortions", the holy, bloody shirt of the anti-abortionists.

Anything after 20 weeks.

Most late-term abortions are not done for medical reasons




By James D. Agresti
August 9, 2012

In a house editorial about an Arizona law that restricts abortions after 18 weeks, the editors of the New York Times assert that “the overwhelming number of abortions occur well before 20 weeks; later abortions mostly often involve severely troubled pregnancies that pose risks to a woman’s health or life.”

This allegation that abortions after 20 weeks are mostly performed for medical reasons has long been discredited by the public disclosures of abortion providers. The salient facts are documented in Just Facts’ research on partial-birth abortion and are summarized below.
Before being banned in 2003, the partial-birth procedure was a preferred method for performing abortions after 20 weeks (see picture on right at this stage of pregnancy). This procedure gained prominence in the early 1990s through Dr. Martin Haskell, who is credited with inventing it. In a 1993 interview with American Medical News, Haskell said:

I’ll be quite frank: most of my abortions are elective in that 20-24 week range…. In my particular case, probably 20% are for genetic reasons. And the other 80% are purely elective….

After this statement was published in a U.S. Congressional report, proponents of legalized abortion adamantly contested it:

• The American Civil Liberties Union, National Organization for Women, People For the American Way, and 50 other organizations sent a joint letter to Congress stating that partial-birth abortions were “most often performed” in cases “of severe fetal anomalies or a medical condition that threatens the pregnant woman’s life or health.”

• Planned Parenthood issued a press release asserting that partial-birth abortions are performed “only in cases when the woman’s life is in danger or in cases of extreme fetal abnormality.”

• The executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers appeared on ABC’s Nightline and stated that partial-birth abortions were done only in extreme situations of danger to a woman’s life and fetal anomalies.

Within the next year and half, the claims above were bluntly discredited by abortion providers:

• Ronald Fitzsimmons, the executive director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, told the New York Times and American Medical News that he “lied through [his] teeth” when he appeared on Nightline because he was afraid that the truth would erode public support for abortion. Disowning his previous statements, he stated that partial-birth abortions are “primarily done on healthy women and healthy fetuses….”

• Two doctors at a New Jersey abortion clinic spoke with a North Jersey newspaper under condition of anonymity. Both independently stated that their clinic was performing roughly 1,500 partial-birth abortions per year, most of which are elective and not for medical reasons.

• Renee Chelian, president of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers confessed:

The spin out of Washington was that it was only done for medical necessity, even though we knew it wasn’t so. I kept waiting for [the National Abortion Federation] to clarify it and they never did. I got caught up: What do we do about this secret? Who do we tell and what happens when we tell? But frankly, no one was asking me, so I didn’t have to worry.

The Guttmacher Institute is a research organization that operates under “guiding principles” that include support for legalized abortion. In 2004, the institute conducted a survey of women who had abortions. The survey did not isolate abortions that were performed after 20 weeks, but it is otherwise instructive: When women having abortions were asked what their primary reason was, 4% said it was because of their personal health, 3% said it was because of possible problems affecting the health of their unborn child, and less than 1% said it was because of rape or incest.

Without credible evidence that would overturn these candid admissions of abortion providers, there is no factual basis to claim that most abortions performed after 20 weeks are for medical reasons.


Although partial-birth abortions are now prohibited except if “necessary to save the life of a mother,” late-term abortions are still performed for elective reasons by another method called “dismemberment dilation and extraction.” During this procedure, as explained in theWashington Post, “the fetal limbs are pulled off the body in utero, sometimes while the fetus is still alive.” A 2007 Supreme Court ruling details this procedure in greater depth (WARNING:graphic content).

http://www.justfactsdaily.com/most-l...dical-reasons/

Nothing about late-term abortions are "straw dog" in the argument. Regardless of what doctors recommend, they are still happening regularly. Some women have them simply because of relationship breakups.

You mean a woman had a late term abortion because her husband left her or her boyfriend didn't want to get married? What is your problem with that? Most women want to have families when they're married. While some women don't mind raising a family on their own, most don't because they can't afford it or don't want the child of a man who left her. Whether you agree with her decision, it is her decision. Based on the abortion statistics, there are very very few late term abortions in the United States and most are clearly done for medical reasons, but in the rare instance where there might be one that fits your scenario, what about it? What right do you or the government on your behalf have to force her into childbirth against her will? Just because someone does something you don't agree with, doesn't always make it wrong.

The best person to decide what is right or wrong with regards to an abortion is the girl or woman involved. She is the only one who has all the facts, risk and responsibility. That's why it is and should be her decision under the law.

Donald Trump on Abortion - OnTheIssues.org

www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Donald_Trump_Abortion.htm

TRUMP: I'm pro-life. I'm totally against abortion.

Originally Posted by JohnDoe2

Donald Trump on Abortion - OnTheIssues.org

www.ontheissues.org/celeb/Donald_Trump_Abortion.htm

TRUMP: I'm pro-life. I'm totally against abortion.

JD2, what are you doing?? Why would you misquote Donald Trump on the issue of abortion?

This is what he actually said in your link:

TRUMP: As far as Planned Parenthood is concerned, I'm pro-life. I'm totally against abortion, having to do with Planned Parenthood.

There is not a period after the word abortion. There is a comma, which states thereafter "having to do with Planned Parenthood." He is totally against funding for Planned Parenthood if they are performing abortions.

Why would you alter the quote to convey a false meaning on ALIPAC??!!!

Donald Trump took 5 different positions on abortion in 3 days - The ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../donald-trumps-ever-shifting-positions-on-abortion/
Aug 19, 2015 - Donald Trump's 'evolving' stance on abortion. Embed ... Here's a look back at how he "evolved" into his pro-life views. Here's a look back at ...

His views change so often you can interpret them to mean anything on different days.