Thread: US Senate Convenes (9:33am ET) - Getting Starting

Menendez makes me sick also.

Here's my grades so far.

Sessions...A
Dorgan....A
Kyle....F
Kennedy....F
Sanders...missed seeing him
Grassely....A
Menendez....F
Webb....A
Might have missed a couple more!

My daughter said... man their's no inbetween with you huh.
Absoulty not they are either for it or against it, NO wavering

I can't stomach Senator Menendez. I can't believe he put up a picture of Ellis Island. What we have now is NOTHING like was has been in the past.
He is a reconquista in a suit.

Fatboy speaking...

Isakson speaking...

Re: Triggers in bill - complement to idea of deporting visa violators.
Biometrically secure ID - would prohibit what happened on 9/11.

Fingerprint-based, forged/stolen IDs not likely

From yesterday... the triggers 2700 redundant miles of barriers.
18000 BP agents, 28k detention beds, etc.

I have no qualms with senator's amendment - 'Trigger' analogy, not appropriate.

Yields floor...


Sen Menendez (D-NJ) speaks...

Speak about Grassley amendment...

I rise in strong opposition - abolishes last aspect of visa review.

We are going to hear terrorism invoked to oppose parts of bill.
'It is a false choice....'

Let me say I hope we're not going to undermine due process.
Not just limited to terrorism. Eliminates judicial review.

Now : Jud. Review (JR) severely restricted from JR.

Outside - consular officers make decision.
Only area where JR remains available; in US, and then placed in removal proc.; if revocation grounds for review.

Person's ability to remain in US is at stake. ..


Fatboy interjects...

Refers to New Bedford raid by ICE - held in TX, then deported.
US deports wrong individuals based on wrong ID [?!?!? - right!]

Raises voice, pleading case of individ deported unjustly (according to FB)


Yields back to Menendez...


Menendez floor...

I appreciate FB's description, a dramatic example of gov't wrongly.

Pleading the case of wrongly deported individual {sob}


Another example - what happens when we don't commit based due process of law: eliminates due process of JR in visa applicaitions.

Foreign gov't - wants to reign in dissidents, provides false info about individ. who might be speaking out, .... consular officer revokes visa...
then what? That person wouldn't have chance to make case in court.
"Unamerican"

Another case: from US 6-2006, US Fed Judge rejected govt contention, and indiv was right - his point: difference between individ and Bush admin opinions.

Now, is that what we want? Eliminate ability to express an opinion?

Finally, re: terrorism - I don't want to deport terrorists - I want to jail and prosecute them here.

I urge senators to oppose it.



More broadly on immigration bill...

Framework on where discussion will go...

Talks about Ellis Island, 'American Dream', (blah, blah)

"we all have a connection to immigration'.

We are a nation of laws.

Public dialog has been less than welcoming at times.

In past, ethnic groups have been treated unfairly.
Cites case of Germans, Irish, Chinese - CEA - 1943, etc)

Cites quote from Congressman Johnson (1924)

In 1925, to LA CoC...

These are some statements from past...

In last Congress HR 4437 bill - beyond debate, bill was shortsighted and mean-spirited. Would have criminalized non-citizens, and some cases, citizens too.

Today, hateful rhetoric. We must never allow ourselves to buy into that.
Xenophobia, racism - reject verbiage of hate and racism.

We must be completely honest with ourselves. We must enact tough, smart imm. reform (blah, blah).

Many cities/local govt are enacting their own ordinances, which are violating equal protection of our laws.

...filler...

We need to curtail and address people crossing our borders.
We need to address illegal employment.
9/11 provides a greater imperative to solve immigration problem.

We have seen crime along our borders.
Human smugglers, etc

History approves it is not enough to rely on enforcement alone.
Tripling of border enforcement, budge increase by factor of 10x.

More comprehensive effort needed.

We must also crackdown on companies that do illegal hiring.
Lists current list of employers fined for violations - woefully small.

What happened? Truth is, border enforcement made decision to look the other way - to favor corp. America, at expense of US citizens.

Companies 'know' they can hire without retribution.

Leads to exploitation of workers, has bad effect on legal US workers.

Securing borders, enforcing work laws - does nothing to deal with 12 millio IAs that are here.

Bill provides safe, orderly, legal process. We must be practical in dealing with problem.

To do otherwise, would require the most massive roundup in the history of the world. Such a mass deportation, assuming even a voluntary departure would have large impact on economy.

Solution will encourage IAs to come out of the shadows. Contribute to economy. etc.

I am first and foremost willing to hire any American for any job.
{Sob - listing [wrongly] jobs that IAs do which YOU are supposed to feel greateful for...}

[Is summarizing argument]

One more compelling issue bill does not do: importance of family.

Number of details in bill which is impractical - issue of family.
Does away with family unification. Bedrock of policy.

Emphasizes family structure, tradition.

Under bill, change of fundamental values - adv. degree becomes most important criteria under new process.

FU (fam re-un) de-emphasized in new bill.

(...Cites quote from JPStevens (US SC) )

Even under new point-system, family consideration made secondary
Should be a critical value.

Details - how impacts:

> Foreign-born excluded from GC caps - US citizen or PR, has a right to claim their relative. New bill: removes them, total cap is 40k
Slash reqd GCs by half. Creating a new backlog.

> Spouses and minor children of Legal PRs of US. Does not rise cap, lowers it. Can't join worker person here.

> Grand-Bargain moves us to point-based system. In agreement, geared toward highly educated primarily.

> Ability of family to re-unify here in US. Backlog of processing, complexity of dealing with previous applicants - depending on date.
(etc)

Originally Posted by the_patriot

Originally Posted by alisab

Way to go GRASSLY . . . YOU GET IT!!!

Wait, didn't he vote YES on the cloture vote Monday? If so, is he changing his mind?!?!?

Yes Grassley did vote yes the other day

Originally Posted by TexasCowgirl

I can't stomach Senator Menendez. I can't believe he put up a picture of Ellis Island. What we have now is NOTHING like was has been in the past.
He is a reconquista in a suit.

I believe he is a cuban!! And a traitor!

PhredE, When I get up your way I am buying you an adult beverage or two.

Menendez continues...


Talking about IAs in US Armed Services,

May 2005 - differential treatment for legal PRs vs. IAs

These are a few of the shortcomings in the bill.

This bill would have prevented my own parents from coming here.

I would like to hear my colleagues talk about their own proud history.

A new paradigm could have been struck based on family values and reunification in bill.

I plan to offer amendments later to add these changes I desire.

Summarizes about family re-unification, etc {passionate SOB}


Yields floor...

Originally Posted by American_made

PhredE, When I get up your way I am buying you an adult beverage or two.

Cool - thanks A_Made !!!

Fatboy has the floor (and walls, and ceiling...)...

Importance of family in bill - have a change to deal with these later in detail...

Made important progress in dealing with these so far.


Wants to address points in Grassley Amendment -

Later, Bingaman Amendment will be discussed [limits GWs from 400k -> 200k]

On Grassley Amen (GA), important to understand that people that come to US have to undergo background checks. Businesspeople, scholars, teachers, etc.

These are not terrorists - convicted people are generally not allowed in - DUI, drug conv., assaults, conterfeiting, etc.

Requirement for due process - courts can handle these cases quickly.
290 + cases last year.

Kennedy was put on 'no-fly' list. [!!! hahaha] by DHS.
Wasn't cleared up for 3-4 weeks.

Another example from US citizen from MA, caught in raid and deported.
- due to 'similar names'.

I think system is appropriate and is not burdensome.

Mistakes happen in processing.

Yields floor...

Originally Posted by SOSADFORUS

Originally Posted by the_patriot

Originally Posted by alisab

Way to go GRASSLY . . . YOU GET IT!!!

Wait, didn't he vote YES on the cloture vote Monday? If so, is he changing his mind?!?!?

Yes Grassley did vote yes the other day

So is he changing his stance now?