Thread: A voice of reason on immigration

ALIPAC

Let me take your text and insert my comments in color.

With the American Republic in jeopardy (There are always problems, however we have unprecedented long period of prosperity now; I do not see any immediate jeopardy) it won't matter what your grand plan to "make legal immigration work" or anyone elses plan either. (The second part of your sentence contradicts the first one, if the country is in jeopardy, and – I guess for you it means illegal immigration – any logically coherent idea how to deal with this situation matters a lot.) If you can't see that the marketplace of ideas is a gonner along with the will and representation of the American public on this then you need to take a deeper look. (I know that my English is poor, I am an engineer; maybe this is the reason that I cannot make any sense out of this your sentence.)

The only hope YOU or anyone else has of selling a PLAN (What are you talking about? What PLAN, what selling? I just have a few ideas, that I consider important and innovative, and would like to discuss them with other concerned citizens on merit, not on political agenda.) is if the corporate masters want you to float the plan or can make more money off of it.

I read your bio. You are a politician focused on your agenda. It is nothing wrong with this as long as you are always ready to face and able to withstand the scrutiny by people seeing things differently.

Are you?

HAK
If you don't mind me asking, what country did you emigrate from to America?

Hak,

Scrutiny is my middle name. The last time I checked, there was a permanent microscope up my rear.

Here, let me make it very simple for you.

America

Citizens Vote to elect Representatives.

Those Representatives debate and pass laws.

The President signs and enforces the laws.

Thus, the laws of the nation are derived from American Citizens.

Do you understand? Do you comprehend? Do you get it? It is the reason America has been so celebrated in history and such a prosperous and stable nation.

America 2006

Citizens voted to elect Representatives.

Representatives debated and passed immigration laws.

Those laws are signed and to be enforced by the President.

Wealthy Corporations and Banks have persuaded the President not to enforce the laws.

The American Republic is in jeopardy because these laws are supported by over 80% of Americans.

If these laws are not enforced then Americans become slaves and slaves do not form innovation and prosperous societies.

Get it?

You really need to take a civics 101 class. I don't mean that as an insult. I mean it as an honest suggestion.

W

Well hak, no he does not work for assembly line, he is a receiving clerk for a fabric wholesaler. This is the first time he has done this kind if job. He took it because the market was so bad. He used to work in offices, and before that, he was a cryptographer in the military, but there is not much use for that in the working mans world.

However, yes people used to get paid better for this job, but employers in general know they can offer less because there are so many people needing a job. Switch that situation around, more jobs than people to fill them, then you have employers willing to pay decently and offer decent, affordable benefits.

My anger is towards the government that let this happen, and the greedy employers that encouraged illegals by employing them, thus encouraging more to come here. My husbands employer is a pretty moral man, he does not hire people who are illegal, but, I think he could pay better. I am angry about the economics issue because our government has perpetuated this problem.

What I get angry with the illegals directly is their lousy attitude, and disrespect for our laws. Had they had the moral fortitude to wait like others are doing, America would be a much better place for them to come to legally, and we would all not be here having to discuss the where's and why's of it all.

I have local issues with the illegals I encounter, but those are seperate from my husbands pay and lack of affordable benefits.

I do know of people that have been directly replaced by illegals in the home building industry, and also the many teenagers who could use a summer job, but nowadays cannot hardly find one, due to the illegals getting hired for all the fast food jobs (as an example).

My husbands employer could possibly take it all down south, but I highly doubt it would be in his companies best interest to be in Mexico, since the owner himself is there daily. We all do agree outsourcing is another issue that has hurt Americans jobs.

Many would like to say it will make Americans more competative and work harder if we have this global competition for our jobs, but truthfully, we do not like being treated like hamsters on wheels, going nowhere, and all it has done so far is hurt our economy, and piss us off!!

Trade barriers worked and still do for Japan and China. I'd bet that if we taxed products shipped to this country from American companies that outsource their manufacturing jobs outsourcing would end or at least slow down. I'm not going to read or respond to this condescending idiot's semi literate blogs. I think he sees us sitting at his feet looking up at his wise face in adoration while he calls us grasshopper.

"There are no terroist nations?" your statement Hak , Tell ya what, take a trip to Somalia or Chad and then come back and tell us there are no terroist nations, thats if you make it back alive which you won't. You are completely out of touch with reality .

AmericanElizabeth

I understand your reasoning.

You are right; your husband’s employer, being a wholesaler unlikely will move to Mexico. What for?

You place blame on greedy employers and on the government, which does not stop them.

Unfortunately, the only effective way of dealing with greedy people is to allow even more greedy ones to compete with them. It may not sound appealing, however all the technological progress, our whole civilization, are built on greed. If not greed, humans still would be happy running naked in the jungle, eating wild fruits and sleeping in caves.

Overcoming people’s greed was the main noble goal of the socialist governments in the former Soviet Bloc countries. They did this with the full determination and enforced it consequently. It took them about two generations to deplete resources accumulated during the nasty times of greedy capitalism, before they went bankrupt.

In this country, federal, state, and local governments are very withheld in curbing greed of people. So, the country in general is doing well. However, as little curbing of greed as the governments do, results in situations like yours, that there are no decent jobs to take for people like your husband.

Reciprocity

I say terrorist nations do not exist.

You want me to go to Somalia or Chad to get some touch of reality.

What about going to the West Side of Chicago. Walk on the street and be robbed, or be caught in random shooting. Leave your car unattended for one hour and it will be stolen. Kids in their beds are killed there by strayed bullets. Is America a terrorist nation? No.

There are no terrorist nations; however, bad people can be found everywhere.

Originally Posted by hak51

...I am puzzled by the amount of anger floating here. By my posting, I tried to understand the reasons and the rationale behind that anger. It is a basic human instinct to get angry when someone get hurt. However, anger is not a good advisor when making a decision....I am a plain truth seeker. From the members of this forum I seek inspiration what we should to do to make the legal immigration work. Can we agree on stopping bashing illegal immigrants for the next 48 hours, just to the end of this weekend, and at the same time focusing on discussing how to make legal immigration work?...

I can understand the puzzlement. All they did is break into our home, eat our food, refuse to pay taxes, bankrupt our hospitals and schools, and then screech in the streets for more. Goodness, it's so confusing. For clarity, I too would like to see legal immigration work. Perhaps the first rational step would be to stop illegal immigrants (aliens). And for the 20 million who remain in my home, I'd like to see them obey the law too. Perhaps the first rational step for them would be to get out.

Originally Posted by hak51

Reciprocity

I say terrorist nations do not exist.

You want me to go to Somalia or Chad to get some touch of reality.

What about going to the West Side of Chicago. Walk on the street and be robbed, or be caught in random shooting. Leave your car unattended for one hour and it will be stolen. Kids in their beds are killed there by strayed bullets. Is America a terrorist nation? No.

There are no terrorist nations; however, bad people can be found everywhere.

Your comparison between the Greatest Nation on Earth and places like Somalia are completely out of context. There is a difference between Crime in this Country and a Foreign Government shooting its own people in the name of Ethnic or Religious Genecide. Maybe you should move to Somalia or N.Korea since you claim there are no differences between Nations