Thread: The West Is Dying

Originally Posted by Chosen

Every Western nation that has forgone the rule of law, for whatever the reason and resorted to cosmopolitan means and cosmopolitan law has never survived. Once faith has been eroded in the established paradigm of law, then you have no soveriegnty of democracy. You then can only have rule by law which is basically what Monarchy's are.

I think this is the fundamental concept that is often overlooked about illgeal immigration.

These are the fundamentals:

Government decisions are made according to written law and rules

Government sanctions cannot be made up after the fact (ex post facto)

Rules are applied as much as possible consistently to all

Courts provide citizens consistent, written process (due process) before life, liberty, or property is taken

Courts provide reasons based upon the law for their decisions

...The rule of law calls for both individuals and the government to submit to the law's supremacy. By precluding both the individual and the state from transcending the supreme law of the land, the Framers constructed another protective layer over individual rights and liberties

"The King himself ought not to be subject to man, but subject to God and the law, because the law makes him King"

In any event, the very second that amnesty is granted the rule of law is no longer applicable. The erosion of Americna society began when the federal government CHOSE not to enforce the law for certain groups of people. It also was exponetially accelerated when the federal government CHOSE not to live up to its mandate to protect its citizens via its contractual obligation of security. This is cosmopolitan behavior. It doesn't matter what any tv or radio personality, politician, or academic says either way about anything. The fact is that you must enforce the rule of law period. Again the very second it is not consciously adhered to the society begins to fail as anything becomes justified.

The current message from our government is that you can break any law you choose as long as a lot of people do it. If you remember they keep saying unenforcable and too many etc...

No rule of law = death of nation state as a democracy.

I think you said it all Chosen! The erosion of American society began when the federal government CHOSE not to enforce the law for certain groups of people.

Yes, agreed Chosen.

Re:

No rule of law = death of nation state as a democracy.

That line encapsulates the entire argument - I believe.

In the anti-amnesty debate, I have found there are generally 2 basic schools of thought which are opposed to amnesty (well, I suppose we could even say general 'lawlessness')

1). Those that oppose based on fiscal, financial concerns: "I don't want my taxes to be higher to pay for some <x>.." or "they aren't contributing to the tax base as ordinarily law-abiding (eg. "above board") US workers are required to", etc. - ok, you get the idea.

and

2). There are those opposed on the non-fiscal, let's say cultural reasons. eg. "What happened to ancient Rome could happen to the US." or
"Celebrating multiculturalism leads to divided societies, not unified ones", or "Is it really tenable to have parallel and different societies living side-by-side with one another within the same boundary and country"?

I understand and can empathize with both points of view - as I believe they have much truth and merit behind both. I tend to side strongest with the latter (2) of the above, simply on the basis that it is possible to argue economic theories ad nauseum with no definitive result (after all, they are theories - not reality, per se; and our nation has survived through earlier periods of extreme financial upheaval and probably can again). The results of a disintegrating culture, country, and society are readily apparent for all citizens to see and experience. I think this is the tangible 'proof' that people see when forming their opinions on the subject.

...All the above is IMHO, of course...

So, in short, I'd just say "Amen brother", I think your summary covers things nicely.

Thanks Phred, I read most of that post , it tells a scairy story ,huh?

Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizens into a patriotic fervor , for patriotism is indeed a double edged sword , it both emboldend the blood, just as it narrows the mind .

And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and blood boils with hate and the mind has closed , the leader will have no need in ceasing the rights of the citizenry, rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism , will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so . How do I know ? For this is what i have done . And I am Ceasar .

[ This is rumored that Julius Ceasar never wrote this , but it still may fit into our situation . ]

That's a great point PhredE. I have heard what you are saying about fiscal arguments coming from many think tanks and the like. I think some of it simply reactive to countering the shotgun-like entitlements coming from the globalist lobby. The crazy thing about illegal immigration is that there are so many arguments to be made against it on many levels. But alas, rule of law tis the one that really matters. But yeah, I would defintely agree with you about those two categories of contention.

Re:

But alas, rule of law tis the one that really matters.

This seems to be the one thing - more than any other - that draws people to this forum and seems to have incited so much intense opposition to the entire notion of another amnesty - you pegged it perfectly.

Phred and Chosen, I don't undersand what you are saying . Maybe I'm just tired .

Do you mean law as in the laws of God that our nation as founded on ?

Or the way they have slowly ammended most of our federal laws ? I think they started out with 3 federal laws , and now there are more than 3000 ? is this correct ?

Originally Posted by NOamNASTY

I just read an article in a magazine from doc's office .

Only one place in the world where those of european descent are increasng in numbers ,and thats Utah populated by Mormans .
(clipped)

Teddy Roosevelt warned us that birth control would destroy this nation and end this civilization when in 1916 the first birth control center opened .

Maybe Russia financing a baby boom is not so foolish after all . They have incentives to have babies there now .

If we don't stop the insanity of immigraion ,we will soon live to regret it .

Unless we clear out all the traitors, which seem to be just about all of them with protest and votes ,our children will be worshipping a strange god and our daughters will be enslaved .

Getting back to the original subject--I believe the point of the article was about populations growing or declining. So, "Unless we clear out all the traitors" AND RAISE LARGER FAMILIES of legal Americans we are in peril.

It seems Americans aren't reproducing enough to replace the parents (at least two children per family). Those who reproduce faster will eventually overwhelm us. It is a math problem, easily demonstrable.

Since illegals reproduce at a higher rate because we reward them for it, it is of major importance to overturn the idiotic anchor baby birthright citizenship "law". So if having more children gives them no legal status here they may go back to having less. By this insane law we are only asking to be overwhelmed. Maybe we should follow the Russians' idea...

Originally Posted by InsaneAsylum

Originally Posted by NOamNASTY

I just read an article in a magazine from doc's office .

Only one place in the world where those of european descent are increasng in numbers ,and thats Utah populated by Mormans .
(clipped)

Teddy Roosevelt warned us that birth control would destroy this nation and end this civilization when in 1916 the first birth control center opened .

Maybe Russia financing a baby boom is not so foolish after all . They have incentives to have babies there now .

If we don't stop the insanity of immigraion ,we will soon live to regret it .

Unless we clear out all the traitors, which seem to be just about all of them with protest and votes ,our children will be worshipping a strange god and our daughters will be enslaved .

Getting back to the original subject--I believe the point of the article was about populations growing or declining. So, "Unless we clear out all the traitors" AND RAISE LARGER FAMILIES of legal Americans we are in peril.

It seems Americans aren't reproducing enough to replace the parents (at least two children per family). Those who reproduce faster will eventually overwhelm us. It is a math problem, easily demonstrable.

Since illegals reproduce at a higher rate because we reward them for it, it is of major importance to overturn the idiotic anchor baby birthright citizenship "law". So if having more children gives them no legal status here they may go back to having less. By this insane law we are only asking to be overwhelmed. Maybe we should follow the Russians' idea...

Thanks ! Would you like to be my editor ? They tell me , I am not good with grammar . Seems I use to be .

I am not going to respond to "noamnasty." He is a troll/human spam bot who has been kicked off of other sites, I just learned, for this process of spamming and making ridiculous remarks and causing problems. Being contrarian for no reason and trying to bury information by making spurious posts.

I really don't have time to sort thru this kind of nonsense.

Originally Posted by NOamNASTY

I just read an article in a magazine from doc's office .

Only one place in the world where those of european descent are increasng in numbers ,and thats Utah populated by Mormans .

It was about how the third world is invading Europe and America but mostly about how we are not populating our nations . But immigrants are moving in and not only populating ,but doing so on our dollar .

Mainly hispanic and islamic immigrants.

The West is dying, because we became TOO SOFT. When you have ants, rats or termites invade your home, you DON'T FEED them because otherwise they will multiply and take over. You MAKE SURE to remove them or at least make them feel unwelcome.

The illegals keep on coming because they get to have anchor babies here, the president isn't enforcing the immigration laws and they can abuse our social programs which were never meant for them.

And while I applaud you for fighting all those amnesty bills, the fact remains that YOU'RE TOO SHY AND TOO PACIFIED to take more meaningful action.

For example, I've proposed here a year ago to organize to IMPEACH BUSH, since he's been one of the main supporters of amnesty and deserves an F for enforcement of immigration laws, but Bill shot it down and nobody else wanted to go against him.

And if you let Bush get away with incompetency and proposing amnesties that would hurt our country, then you deserve to get alarmed every few weeks with another proposed amnesty and work hard to stop it.

Yup, if more people were like me, Bush would be gone (impeached) and so would Cheney if he didn't start enforcing immigration laws. We'd have an ANTI-amnesty president and illegals would be SELF-DEPORTING en mass.

In other words, the mistake you're doing is that you're PLAYING DEFENSE when you should be PLAYING OFFENSE. You can plead with your reps to vote against amnesty for the next 20 years, or you can DEMAND that Bush is impeached for incompetency and solve the problem once and for all.

There are also other MORE RADICAL things that can be done, like pledging to vote INDEPENDENT in case any amnesty is ever enacted, which would make the Reps think twice before voting for that again. That's another PRO-ACTIVE strategy which should be much more effective than waiting for another amnesty bill.

Oh, and I realize that many people wouldn't want to go against Bush because he's a republican like them. Well, then you have to decide whether you want to be good republicans or GOOD AMERICANS.

Jaro