Thread: What's so wrong with the REAL ID ACT?

Real Id is not good
tracking citizens is not good ,

I'll agree with that

But in the end , if none of us have to prove who we are , in this day and
age ,

How can the govt prove anyone is an illegal alien?

This is the part I don't get

Jonathan, Welcome to ALIPAC!

Check out this thread for more complete info on REAL ID--

http://www.alipac.us/ftopict-56088.html

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Originally Posted by tinybobidaho

Nobody should have to give up their civil liberties at the will of the government. If this government wants people to have tamper proof ID cards, then let them make it mandatory for anyone entering into this country who isn't a citizen to provide one. The RealID Act has it backwards. We shouldn't have to prove we're citizens, people coming here from other countries should.

I can only agree with the first part of your statement if you want to live out in the woods and not be a part of a nation. A citizenship ID is one's membership card in the nation. If you want to join the club, you need a membership card. Otherwise you can go live on an unclaimed island.

We shouldn't have to prove we're citizens, people coming here from other countries should

If you don't believe in Real ID, then why would foreigners need to prove they aren't already Americans? Without Real ID, we will never defeat illegal immigration. It seems Ron Paul libertarians are not really interested in controlling illegal immigration.

You don't have to give up your freedoms to be a part of society. Every American that I'm aware of in this country can already prove they're a citizen. It's the people who come here and can't prove it that I worry about. And to make a statement about Ron Paul supporters not being interested in controlling immigration is riding the line on the warnings Willian has posted. I'd be careful on that one.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Originally Posted by tinybobidaho

Nobody should have to give up their civil liberties at the will of the government. If this government wants people to have tamper proof ID cards, then let them make it mandatory for anyone entering into this country who isn't a citizen to provide one. The RealID Act has it backwards. We shouldn't have to prove we're citizens, people coming here from other countries should.

I can only agree with the first part of your statement if you want to live out in the woods and not be a part of a nation. A citizenship ID is one's membership card in the nation. If you want to join the club, you need a membership card. Otherwise you can go live on an unclaimed island.

We shouldn't have to prove we're citizens, people coming here from other countries should

If you don't believe in Real ID, then why would foreigners need to prove they aren't already Americans? Without Real ID, we will never defeat illegal immigration. It seems Ron Paul libertarians are not really interested in controlling illegal immigration.

Are you joking me. What does not having a real id for americans be seen as not wanting to enforce illegal immigration? The people coming into our country from other countries are who we need to track. If we have enforcement of our immigration laws and get rid of incentives for illegals most of them will go home. Why do AMRICANS need to be tracked. If we can't even get into our own state parks or get on a plane what kind of freedom is that? Are you saying we can't have immigration control unless we all have a real id? If and when MIcrosoft is granted permission to control our medical records into one data base, and it is incorporated into our id cards along with all of the other important information about you all in one place, that is going to be alright with you?

I'll ask again

I'm not saying real id is right but

With our current system how can we tell legal from illegal ?

If people are sneaking in here how do we "track" them ?

This is the question I can't seem to find an answer for ,

Even if we made every illegal , legal and started over from
day one , we would still have illegals sneaking in , how could we
tell they were illegal ?

Originally Posted by usanevada

Real Id is not good
tracking citizens is not good ,

I'll agree with that

But in the end , if none of us have to prove who we are , in this day and
age ,

How can the govt prove anyone is an illegal alien?

This is the part I don't get

If worried about being tracked, better trash your cell phone as you can be tracked

Originally Posted by usanevada

I'll ask again

I'm not saying real id is right but

With our current system how can we tell legal from illegal ?

If people are sneaking in here how do we "track" them ?

This is the question I can't seem to find an answer for ,

Even if we made every illegal , legal and started over from
day one , we would still have illegals sneaking in , how could we
tell they were illegal ?

The libertarians are similar to the liberal idealists in that they do not offer practical solutions to the problems of illegal immigration and border security.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Originally Posted by usanevada

I'll ask again

I'm not saying real id is right but

With our current system how can we tell legal from illegal ?

If people are sneaking in here how do we "track" them ?

This is the question I can't seem to find an answer for ,

Even if we made every illegal , legal and started over from
day one , we would still have illegals sneaking in , how could we
tell they were illegal ?

The libertarians are similar to the liberal idealists in that they do not offer practical solutions to the problems of illegal immigration and border security.

George PhilliesLibertarian

Immigration - I support the Libertarian Party Platform. You cannot have open borders and a large-scale welfare system at the same time. You will go broke. As has happened before in our history, if you have open borders poor country governments will pay people to move here, promising them a better life in the New World. Each time we add a worker to the Social Security system, we enormously increase our (unfunded) national debt, because Social Security is run on pay-as-you-go. Under the present welfare system, a vote for open borders is a vote for higher taxes for all. Someday, the Libertarian message of peace, liberty, and prosperity reach the entire world. All people will then enjoy the freedom and high standard of living we take for granted. In that day, immigration and open borders will be non-issues.

Borders - Americans who quote the Statue of Liberty's message 'Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free' should remember that it was written when most of Europe was run by autocratic monarchies. The huddled masses of Europe now breathe free. George Bush has created many enemies for America. Keeping them from coming here to injure our children and grandchildren must remain a top priority for the foreseeable future.

Foreign Workers - All too often, we hear claims that we must import foreign workers because Americans won't do those jobs. 'Those jobs' in question are hard, physically demanding, outdoor work that require constant, careful attention to detail. Those jobs should be receiving a wage premium, not be barely-minimum-wage sources of employment. There are jobs that Americans won't do, notably in the sciences and engineering; we allow foreigners to come here to study, but then require them to leave. Mr. Bush's foreign guest worker scheme is a corporate welfare deal at the expense of the American worker.

Ron Paul voted to give State and local jurisdictions the authority to enforce the 1986 federal law against illegal immigration!

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Originally Posted by usanevada

I'll ask again

I'm not saying real id is right but

With our current system how can we tell legal from illegal ?

If people are sneaking in here how do we "track" them ?

This is the question I can't seem to find an answer for ,

Even if we made every illegal , legal and started over from
day one , we would still have illegals sneaking in , how could we
tell they were illegal ?

The libertarians are similar to the liberal idealists in that they do not offer practical solutions to the problems of illegal immigration and border security.

I really don't see how you can call Libertarians liberal idealists. They seem to me to be more conservative than the Republicans. We have Libertarians right here in Alipac who fight just as hard against illegal immigration as anyone.

Sturmruger wrote:

Ron Paul voted to give State and local jurisdictions the authority to enforce the 1986 federal law against illegal immigration!

But the devil is in the details. How can you enforce immigration law without legitimate or real ID's?

Just like liberals, Libertarians tend to advocate general or abstract policies but fail to offer practical means of accomplishing their goals. Their idealism needs to be brought down to earth.