Thread: Whats your take on this?

Republican Congressman David Dreier(CA-26) recently stated he opposes amnesty. Everybody knows that Dreier is an open border globalist. hmmm. Around the same time Republican Congressmen Burton (IN-5) and Republican Congressman Pence (IN-6) changed their position toward an amnesty. hmmmmm.

Let's look closer.

Dreier won his last election with 54%. Most knowledgable people I have come across agree that 54% or less means your seat is not safe.

Now Burton won his last election at 72% and Pence at 67%. BOTH VERY SAFE.(and both very conservative)

Sounds like Burton and Pence are trying to pull some votes or campaign money. Maybe they are gambeling to get the Mex vote. How did they vote on HR4437? I assume when you say Congressman you mean Representative.

Republican Congressman David Dreier(CA-26) recently stated he opposes amnesty.

Remember, a guest worker program isn't "real amnesty". Or he is trying to go back to the conservative base.

You know, some of these guys are out of the game. The big dogs are playing with the bills in committee. Maybe what goes on with HR4437 and S2611 doesn't matter to them. How would the outcome of the final legislation effect them?

Dixie

dixie,
It more like musical chairs. The point of my post was to show the inside party politics behind these votes and to show how they are fixed by the party higher ups.

At 54% the party don't want to expose Dreier to having to support amnesty. That could cost him his seat. So they get the votes for amnesty from Burton (72%) and Pence (67%)

At 67% or 72% you can afford to betray a lot of your constituents and stll get re-elected.

The republican party wants amnesty and they want to do it in such a way that they can blame D and keep the majority.
Remember the saying?
A democrat will stab you in the chest(figuratively)
A republican will stab you in the back(figuratively)

I would say this is some guys who do have a concern about their individual seats - they know they are probably going to loose them.

It is no more significant than the man from Utah who suddenly realized, after being a long time opponent of illegals, "Hey, my father in law is from Russia - therefore I support illegal immigration."

These are just bozos floundering around trying to find a way to keep their jobs.

They are just talking out of both sides of their mouths - which is what they do best - and testing the wind.

But somehow, this sounds like another one of those 'Hey the Republicans are almost all bad - the Democrats are ALL bad - so let's throw out the Republicans and give the power over to Teddy Kennedy and his ilk - posts.

Blindly following one party or the other and putting one's faith in a political party is insanity and suicidal. That is the only way most of these miscreants would have ever made it to Washington. As long as we keep talking in terms of political parties, we are never going to solve the problem.

Let's just try voting for the best man/woman for a change, how about that?

Better yet, how about voting out EVERYONE who didn't vote against amnesty.

To want to let Teddy Kennedy to have his way and give them the rest of the country - just boggles the mind.

RE:Better yet, how about voting out EVERYONE who didn't vote against amnesty.

Wrong answer. That is walking right into the trap set by bush.

We know that Bush wants amnesty and the house is considered to be the biggest obstacle. We also know the bush and the republicans want to keep their majority. So if we are to vote on a case by case basis, how can bush get amnesty without losing seats?? Simple, use mostly democrats. He needs 218 votes. Lets say he gets 150D and 68R.
Employing the strategy of voting on a case by case basis, bush just tricked the voters into voting against 150D, and only 68R. Not only will he have duped the voters into accepting amnesty without losing R seats he may GAIN R seats........big big dupe So we need a move strong enough to counter this as to make amnesty expensive for the R party and cost them the majority instead of preserving or adding to the R majority.

There is more to it of course, like how many seats out of the 435 are actually in play.(and which ones) Depending who you talk to the numbers range from 20-40. Easily enough to change the majority. There is of course the possibility of a ground swell similar to 1994. With the R redistricting strategy of 2000, base turnout voting R is CRITICAL to their success. In 2000 the dems employed a poor re-districting strategy making safe seats safer where as the R gambled a bit and went for close wins based on reliable conservatibe base turnout voting R. Without that base turnout voting R, the R's are in trouble. A small percentage of projected base withdrawn can be decisive.

So everyone, in the closely divided electorate that we are in EVERY VOTE COUNTS. The price of amnesty must be loss of the majority or else amnesty is free. If amnesty becomes law I will vote against every R on the ballot.
Why does anyone want to continue to support a party that us out to scam you?

Blindly following one party or the other and putting one's faith in a political party is insanity and suicidal. That is the only way most of these miscreants would have ever made it to Washington. As long as we keep talking in terms of political parties, we are never going to solve the problem.

I agree. DXD got me terribly confused though my mind doesn't work like Bush's.

I am afraid Democrats elected will insure amnesty. Those meatheads don't seem to be able to think independent of their party position.

I have one quesion for you DxD. My plan was to examine the voting pattern of the individuals and base my decision on that. Will I fall into a sticker Bush using that approach?

President Bush may want a Republican majority all right - but he will do just fine with a Democratic majority.

I am totally clear on the immigration issue - but how have the Democrats stood up to the PResident on anything really important? I am truly asking.

We are here trying to do something about illegal immigration. I don't like this PResident's actions as I feel he has been the most vocally supportive of illgeal imigration in my lifetime.



The Democrats have always been vocally in favor or it, have done everything they can to ensure it - all along.

The Republicans have lost their way and their souls, it seems - but some are waking up.

Now I don't really care what party is in charge up there - I just want people up there who will stand up to the President and whatever group is pushing this. That will not be the Democrats.

We need to put this in very clear language - no muddling - no twisted logic -

President Bush wants to give this country to Mexico - or to people who are here illegally and make Mexico a part of our lawmaking process.

Some Republicans want this also -

All Democrats want this.

So we vote blindly for Republicans again - and we might get some token opposition.

We vote blindly for Democrats - we get no opposition at all.

We vote out all those that are pro-illegal immigration - and perhaps we will get more opposition.

Those are our limited options.

Personally, I think to put President Bush and the Democrats totally in charge of this is suicidal. You will have the same make-up you have now. If you think this President can't put the hurt on democrats just like he does Republican - we are just not thinking here. They already agree, however, on this issue - so what's to twist.

We are between the proverbial 'rock and a hard place' - but I just don't believe continuing to vote for people based on so farfetched partisan thinking will get the job done. That's why we are in the fix we are in -

dxd I see it the other way around...the Democrat will promise you the world and then stab you in the back when you turn around. The Republican is the one who comes up and just sticks it to you.

The Democrats want to give the country away and the Republicans want to sell it out.

Not much difference in either group I am beginning to think?

quick word on Reps vote on the House Bill.....

Doesn't matter squat what they voted.......that was a safe vote!

THIS is the VOTE that counts......don't look at them as a safe bet. They're not to be trusted and arm bending is happening as we speak.

These Reps are trying everything to figure out a way to go with AMNESTY and get away with it.

EVERY ONE OF THEM IS UP FOR RE:ELECTION and they're caught between a rock and a hard place.

HIS is the VOTE that counts......don't look at them as a safe bet. They're not to be trusted and arm bending is happening as we speak.

These Reps are trying everything to figure out a way to go with AMNESTY and get away with it.

EVERY ONE OF THEM IS UP FOR RE:ELECTION and they're caught between a rock and a hard place.

Oh, I have absolutely no faith in any of them up there - but Tancredo. He has stood against the tide for a very long time.

Yes, they are all trying to look good at home and obey their masters, at the same time. No doubt about it.

There is no way the Republicans have a soul left -

We are in agreeement on this.

Just don't see how the answer is to blindly vote for the Democrats.

That is the idea he is putting forth that somehow if the Democrats are in the majority, we will be better off - just don't see that.

Or that we should use our votes to 'punish' this President. We don't have time to waste our votes in a 'punishment'. We need to use it to our advantage. WE can't get this President out - the best thing we can do is try to find people who won't agree with him on this issue. We won't have that by giving him Teddy Kennedy to help him write bills.

I would never vote for anyone based on their party - I never have, although until this President, I considered myself a Republican.

I realized a long time ago that all of them have their own agenda. I have always voted for those whose agendas would occasionally mesh with mine. That is the best we can hope for, and it has always turned out to be Republicans on a national level -Republicans, but sometimes Democrats on a state level and locally - party politics doesn't even enter into it.

'Punish' the President by giving him a Democrat majority is right down his alley on this issue and this election THIS IS THE ISSUE - the only issue that will concern me.

If we don't do something - anything else we care in this country is gone.