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12-20-2006, 11:30 PM #11
I'm going with Thomas. I have been thinking along the same lines. Bush is the lame duck and he'll be fine when out of a job. Maybe it's different for some in Washington? Remember Attaboy Brownie and a number of other people just dumped?
DHS has got to be under some big pressure from the few good Americans in Congress. The tide is turning. The American citizenry are watching and demanding something for their billions.Unemployment is not working. Deport illegal alien workers now! Join our efforts to Secure America's Borders and End Illegal Immigration by Joining ALIPAC's E-Mail Alerts network (CLICK HERE)
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12-20-2006, 11:42 PM #12
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Originally Posted by ThomasMoore
Specifically addressing your hypothesis, not only do we have precious little evidence to support it, we have contrary evidence. Specifically, the raid was timed to coincide with a Presidential speech that promised tougher enforcement against identity theft, which is what has been the focus of these raids. Quite to the contrary of your suggestion, the President appears to have been behind the raids, not blindsided by them.
In light of that, do you wish to moderate or to clarify how your theory is supposed to work?
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12-20-2006, 11:51 PM #13
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This is a fun back and forth conjecture. If nothing else it shows we are right about the money people being thick as thieves.
Just for fun I will take the literal stance. They found significant use of illegal id. Probably brought to ice attention from several (including alipac) vocal entities. They found a good case and after trying to make sure they did not step on too many toes at Swift, executed the Raids.
I dont think they saw the small opposition backlash comming. They did us a favor because now the crocadile tears are over and the religous and union entites are maked as traitors to the american worker.
I honestly don't believe their thinking is that subtle. Any large entity in this country has "cousins" in money somewhere.
Ice is to be applauded for trying and defended in spite of their imperfections in this raid.AMERICAN WORKERS FIRST -- A RAID A DAY KEEPS THE ILLEGALS AWAY
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12-21-2006, 12:16 AM #14
Obviously none of us know the "REAL" reason or purpose behind the raids. Actually, there could be multiple reasons, and one of those reasons could very will be to send a message that identity theft will not be tolerated. Unfortunately though, until I see clear evidence pointing in another direction - I believe the raids were designed and executed in order give the Bush administration more ammunition to push for his so called massive guest-worker program. Don't underestimate Bush's stubborness - he will stop at nothing in his quest to support his corporate American buddies and his idea of what America should be.
Secretary Chertoff's mention of a guest-worker program immediately following the raids and Bush's mention in his speech should tell anyone really listening that the raid is being used to push the Bush administrations agenda for a guest-worker program. This should be as obvious as the nose on our face!"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**
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12-21-2006, 12:33 AM #15
Those raids were conducted for one purpose only, and its to push for the guest worker/path to citizenship.
You have to be blind to not see it...First of all, the raids shows the american people that if you indeed proceed with "mass deportation" they will be millions of kids getting left behind after their parents get caught up in a sweep and you are already seeing some sympathy for these kids by the american public.
This is a "no win situation"...If you do more raids, then amnesty is more likely because more kids will be paraded on the news and in the morning papers and the public will be more likely to accept amnesty.
Sensenbrenner felonized 12 millions people overnight and they awere a lot of people screaming and even the church and the pope got into it....The american public is the most generous group of people in the world and i dont think more raids like the swift raids, will help the movement, specially when you have kids involve.
The movement is cutting his own throat by calling for more raids...More raids=quick amnesty
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12-21-2006, 12:44 AM #16
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Originally Posted by swatchick
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12-21-2006, 12:56 AM #17
MovingForward,
America has a guestworker program. The individuals at the Swift plants, which are guest workers are still working today. It's the illegal aliens that are not.
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12-21-2006, 01:01 AM #18
MovingForward wrote:
The movement is cutting his own throat by calling for more raids...More raids=quick amnesty"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**
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12-21-2006, 01:14 AM #19
I dont think the raids helped the movement in one bit....All im hearing is how those kids wont have their parent around for chrismas and what will happen to them....Also, there are dozens of huge fundraising for those kids and U.S citizens from all over the U.S are donating cash so that those kids could get toys etc etc.
The media is not helping you and if you think so, show me....Take a look at the nytimes recent immigration articles..they ran articles that would make you cry for those kids and their parents.
Again..you will only cut your own throat by calling for more raids because no US citizens wants to see a kid being parent-less with no hope and future...You might not care, but the public doesnt see it the way the movement does....
Those kids are a huge lethal weapon and the movement are foolish to not realise it....Ive heard the movement foolishly push for the repeal of the 14 amendment that would strip kids of illegal immigrants of their citizenshipship then deport them...You really think the public would go along with the movement on this issue...Of course not...when kids are involve, all bets are off...
the american public are the most generous and forgiven group of people in the world thus pushing me to the conclusion that more raids and mass deportation will hurt the movement because the public wont be able to endure millions of kid being thrown in lambo and homeless..During those recent raids, ive even heard american citisens suggesting to adopt those kids so they could have a home and food to eat...The heart of the american public is huge and you will have to do a lot to change that.
You have to accept crushing families apart and end kids life to push for mass deportation and the public isnt ready for that...this is why i predict that the movement will lose in the end and kennedy will win the amnesty.
Kennedy is a wize man that knows where the heart of the public is..He's very smart and understand how to use buzz words like "comprehensive " and make it work in his favors...If you tak a poll and ask the public whether they support comprehensive immigration reform, the majority would say yes...this is an art that only teddy kennedy can maximize....You are facing a master in ted kennedy and tancredo is not smart enought for him.
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12-21-2006, 01:24 AM #20
MovingForward wrote:
Again..you will only cut your own throat by calling for more raids because no US citizens wants to see a kid being parent-less with no hope and future...You might not care, but the public doesnt see it the way the movement does....
I dont think the raids helped the movement in one bit....All im hearing is how those kids wont have their parent around for chrismas and what will happen to them....Also, there are dozens of huge fundraising for those kids and U.S citizens from all over the U.S are donating cash so that those kids could get toys etc etc."The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**
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