Thread: Why we need REAL ID and why illegals oppose it

This is a really interesting problem

First off , you cannot get on a plane without a state issued
drivers license or id card

"A new ID scheme isn't the answer. As you know, enforcing the laws would be a hell of a lot better start than this."

Just how do we inforce the laws? Do we use racial profiling ? do we
just go door to door and check everyones "papers"

The real intent and purpose of the constitution as it was written would
not allow the govt to check on anyone at any time , Even if 4 billion
illegals snuck in here , no way the govt could ask any of them for their
papers

It sounds like that is what most of you are advocating ?

We can't have it both ways , not in this day and age

JMO , the mess we have now with millions of fake Ids floating around
isn't cutting it , there has to be a better way

Any ideas ?

Does the final rule require States to collect fingerprints or iris images from drivers? What about RFID technology?

No. REAL ID does not require any biometrics beyond the photograph and signature already required by States and does not require Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) technology.

The federal government is not pushing this Real ID agenda. The CFR is and is using it's members who are currently holding office to do their bidding. The CFR' members are running this country and the agenda of the CFR is not in the interests of individual citizens or their freedoms and rights. This is why we need to make sure we are not electing CFR members into office. We need to cut the CFR off at the knees and let them know we are not going to accept the Real ID or any other facist or communistic idealism such as the NAU, or paying tax to some foreign entity like the United Nations.

MW wrote:

Are you folks even reading the article Jonathan posted thoroughly?

I thought we all agreed that we don't want individual states having the authority to issue driver's licenses to illegals.

Honestly, I just don't understand some of the arguments being presented against the REAL ID Act. The REAL ID will accomplish some of what I thought we all wanted.

I am sure we all know how to read here MW and know exactly what our government wants.

I don't know where you came up with a consensus of all of us agreeing we wanted the Real ID. If anything, I would say in my three years here, I came to the opposite opinion of what the majority wanted from their postings. If I am wrong, then I stand corrected, but so far I don't see a majority of the posters agreeing we want the Real ID.

A lot of the members consider it the "mark of the beast".

I also noticed that a lot of Jonathan's postings are for more regulations and intrusions into our lives from the government, even down to dictating our morality.

Notice they all follow the same pattern, even questioning someone's by line quote from Benjamin Franklin.

Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
Benjamin Franklin

I looked it up also and there is no definite proof it was written by him or not.

I for one am not looking for the government knowing my every move, I want them out of my life completely.

I need more protection from our overreaching government than from the terrorist.

RIDF chip..first your drivers license then your hand. I am a Christian and I do consider it the Mark of the Beast. The bible says (paraphrase) without the mark of the beast either on the forehead or the hand they could not even buy food. That is a paraphrase. That is the ultimate goal..to chip us like dogs...and do away with cash. Everything will be digital through a chip connected to a database and the government can just take what you owe them out of that chip. If you go up against them, they simply turn off your chip and YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BUY FOOD. Many many situations are concocted in order to get the people to give up their liberties on their own because they are afraid. If this government could put a man on the moon, they can round up those illegals and get them out of here. They could LOCK down those borders. Could it be that the FED wants to TAX the illegals? Gosh...BILLIONS more in the pockets of the elites! PS> to those who want no part of the chip...I got an email you can stick the Real ID in the microwave and that will fry the chip. Make no mistake about this...there are tens of thousands of people fighting the Real Id. This is supposed to be a free country.

"The real intent and purpose of the constitution as it was written would
not allow the govt to check on anyone at any time , Even if 4 billion
illegals snuck in here , no way the govt could ask any of them for their
papers "


I am sure that this is for citizens of this country not people here illegally or those invitied in as far as work permits go. The government should issue the ID cards to people coming into this country to make sure they leave when they are suppose to and that they have a right to work in this country. As far as citizens carrying them it is an invasion of our privacy. As was stated before, the SS# is not to be used for identification, but what has happened there? The drivers license, they don't just use it for issues concerning driving. They can revoke it if you don't pay child support etc. So what is up with that? Are you going to tell me you trust our government do use the Real ID properly?

I feel it is because of people like Johnathan that the government has gotten as bad as they have. They are willing to give up the few rights we have remaning for the sake of what?

Darlene wrote:

I don't know where you came up with a consensus of all of us agreeing we wanted the Real ID. If anything, I would say in my three years here, I came to the opposite opinion of what the majority wanted from their postings. If I am wrong, then I stand corrected, but so far I don't see a majority of the posters agreeing we want the Real ID.

That's not what I said, Darlene. Please read this portion of my post again:

I thought we all agreed that we don't want individual states having the authority to issue driver's licenses to illegals.

As you can see, I never said anything about us having a consensus on the REAL ID Act. But I did say that it was my impression that we agreed that illegals shouldn't be issued driver's licenses. Thanks in advance for not reading things into my posts in the future.

sippy wrote:

MW, how can you say the Real ID act will be good? Their original proposal is only to give it to illegals, but you know it won't end there.

I think you may be confusing the REAL ID Act with something else. Individual states will not be able to issue illegals identification cards that meet the standards set forth in the Real ID Act. Actually, the REAL ID Act will force states not to give driver's licenses to illegals. Please read:

the REAL ID Act (H.R. 41 would, among other things, establish certain minimum standards for states if they want their driver's licenses or non-driver IDs to be accepted for federally mandated purposes, such as boarding a plane or entering a federal facility. The standards include verifying the legal status of the applicant, setting the license of a foreign visitor to expire when his visa expires, verifying documents presented by applicants, and modernizing the technology used in licenses.

RealID wrote:

This is not about hiding something or your common uses of id, its about beginning a branding of a citizen.

How does having a nation-wide standard for issuing driver's licenses and non-driver ID cards brand citizens? I've seen this comment made by several people and I've yet to figure out how they perceive the Real ID Act as branding.

Honestly, I think a lot of the concerns people are expressing are coming from a misunderstanding of what the Real ID Act does and doesn't do.



Please read what the National Council of LA RAZA has to say about the portion of the Real ID Act were actually debating:

[quote]REAL ID Act
Action Center
Join our action network and make your voice be heard.

Overview: The REAL ID Act was passed by the House and the Senate and signed into law by President Bush in May 2005. It was attached to the Iraqi supplemental appropriations bill, making it extremely difficult to defeat. Unfortunately, this new law makes all Americans less safe and undermines fundamental American values of fairness, due process, and protection of those fleeing persecution. (LA RAZA is talking about illegals here, not Americans) The REAL ID Act will also result in an increased number of unlicensed, uninsured drivers on the roads, prevents persons fleeing persecution from receiving humanitarian relief in the U.S (once again, they are talking about illegals).

Driver’s license provisions: Among the many provisions of REAL ID are sections that place federal requirements on all state driver’s licenses. The REAL ID Act will have an impact on every person applying for a driver’s license in the entire U.S. All states, Puerto Rico, and the District of Columbia will have to change their driver’s license laws to comply with REAL ID.

While the REAL ID Act is now law, the driver’s license provisions are not in effect yet. All current driver’s licenses remain valid. Current licenses are likely to remain valid until their renewal date, even if state laws change in the meantime. States have three years to comply with the REAL ID, and each state will follow a different timeline.

The fight against the REAL ID Act is not over, and NCLR continues to work hard to challenge the new law and make its implementation as harmless as possible.

Specifically, if implemented, the REAL ID Act will:

* Require that all driver’s license applicants prove they are U.S. citizens or lawfully present in the U.S. (unfortunately not every lawful immigration status qualifies under the current law)

* [b]Require that states issue distinct licenses based on immigration status. U.S. citizens and green card holders will get one type of “permanentâ€

We are already stoping illegal aliens from getting drivers licenses in states due to old fashioned laws. We activits are helping make that happen! The laws work when they are followed. We don't need to add anything fancy like ANOTHER ID. Good grief Charlie Brown.

MW wrote:

But I did say that it was my impression that we agreed that illegals shouldn't be issued driver's licenses.

And we shouldn't be issued the Real ID!

Then why are certain States saying that they are not going to comply with the Real ID?

It is because many of their constituents have expressed their complete objections to this already. Some are just using the excuse of the cost of complying.

* Require states to electronically store all information from applicants and share that information with other states.

(what they left off was also share this information with Mexico and Canada.)

Now why is this necessary? There have been numerous threads about the Real ID on this forum, I suggest you look them up and get a real sense of how most of us feel about this subject.

Furthermore, a bar code or a magnetic stripe is not a tracking chip.

It might not be at first, but try reading my post. It is the camels nose under the tent. It is a starting point for it's real intentions.
Maybe the next step will be your personal information, financial records, medical records and all other pertinent information.

Can't you read between the lines MW, or are you so stubborn that you must always be right.

Hasn't the government overridden a lot of our objections to things we find offensive already, that you are willing to trust them on this one. It does not take a conspiracy theorist to come to these conclusions.

I'll take my chances with the illegals before I give in to the government.

I'll take my chances with the illegals before I give in to the government.

This pretty much sums up the priorities of many of those who oppose a secure ID. Illegal immigration is a secondary concern.