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Thread: Yes. 20 million more receive health care , but U.S. citizens pay the tab

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  1. #1
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Yes. 20 million more receive health care , but U.S. citizens pay the tab

    Obama and our socialist crowd love to tout the claim that under Obamacare we now have 20 million more people in the country receiving healthcare. But what Obama and his crowd cleverly leave out of the equation is that American citizens have been made into tax slaves to provide healthcare to millions upon millions of foreigners who have invaded America’s borders. In fact, in one REPORT we find “Illegal immigrants benefited from up to $750M in ObamaCare subsidies”. And this figure does not even begin to calculate the $ billions American Citizens are paying to cover the costs of illegals who swarm into our nation’s emergency rooms to get their healthcare needs attended to.


    In repealing and replacing Obamacare, is it not time for hard working American citizens to be relieved of any federal tax burden which now finances the healthcare needs of those who have invaded our borders? Why on earth are those who have invaded America’s borders rewarded by our federal government with subsidized healtcare, or any taxpayer financed economic needs?


    Hopefully the Trump Administration will address this issue and free American citizens from being made into federal tax slaves to support the economic needs of millions of foreigners who have invaded American’s borders.


    JWK



    American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax slaves and forced to finance the personal economic needs of millions of foreigners who have invaded America’s borders.
    Last edited by johnwk; 11-14-2016 at 10:53 PM.

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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    It also doesn't count the higher premiums the insured are now paying or the un-affordable deductibles they're subjected to or the death panels that are killing off elderly people at enormous rates.
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    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Obama and our socialist crowd love to tout the claim that under Obamacare we now have 20 million more people in the country receiving healthcare. But what Obama and his crowd cleverly leave out of the equation is that American citizens have been made into tax slaves to provide healthcare to millions upon millions of foreigners who have invaded America’s borders. In fact, in one REPORT we find “Illegal immigrants benefited from up to $750M in ObamaCare subsidies”. And this figure does not even begin to calculate the $ billions American Citizens are paying to cover the costs of illegals who swarm into our nation’s emergency rooms to get their healthcare needs attended to.


    In repealing and replacing Obamacare, is it not time for hard working American citizens to be relieved of any federal tax burden which now finances the healthcare needs of those who have invaded our borders? Why on earth are those who have invaded America’s borders rewarded by our federal government with subsidized health care, or any taxpayer financed economic needs?


    Hopefully the Trump Administration will address this issue and free American citizens from being made into federal tax slaves to support the economic needs of millions of foreigners who have invaded American’s borders.


    JWK



    American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax slaves and forced to finance the personal economic needs of millions of foreigners who have invaded America’s borders.
    Unfortunately it's not going to happen. Trump has already said he is keeping that part of Obamacare. There is no way to get around it, the government will have to subsidize the care of those with pre-existing conditions. Yes, it is us the taxpayers who fund the government. The only option I can see is to separate the two groups into separate pools ..... those with pre-existing conditions and the basically healthy citizens. The basically healthy will pay for their plan, but the U.S. Government will have to subsidize those with pre-existing conditions. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is the only option I see. So our health insurance premiums won't be funding those with pre-existing health conditions, which means our premiums will go down, but our tax dollars will.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Unfortunately it's not going to happen.Trump has already said he is keeping that part of Obamacare. There is no way toget around it, the government will have to subsidize the care of those withpre-existing conditions. Yes, it is us the taxpayers who fund the government.The only option I can see is to separate the two groups into separate pools..... those with pre-existing conditions and the basically healthy citizens.The basically healthy will pay for their plan, but the U.S. Government will haveto subsidize those with pre-existing conditions. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is theonly option I see. So our health insurance premiums won't be funding those withpre-existing health conditions, which means our premiums will go down, but ourtax dollars will.

    And why does our federal government have to subsidize those with pre-existing conditions?Simply have insurance companies offer plans with higher premiums for those with pre-existing conditions. Aside from that, why are American citizens begin made into tax slaves to finance the medical needs of those who have invaded our borders? This has to end!

    JWK


    The unavoidable truth is, the Democrat's plan for “free” college tuition will be paid for by taxing millions of college graduates who worked their own way through college and are now trying to finance their own economic needs.

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    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post


    And why does our federal government have to subsidize those with pre-existing conditions?Simply have insurance companies offer plans with higher premiums for those with pre-existing conditions. Aside from that, why are American citizens begin made into tax slaves to finance the medical needs of those who have invaded our borders? This has to end!

    JWK


    The unavoidable truth is, the Democrat's plan for “free” college tuition will be paid for by taxing millions of college graduates who worked their own way through college and are now trying to finance their own economic needs.

    Most of those with pre-existing conditions probably couldn't afford the higher premiums, that's why their plans would have to be subsidized by us. Do I agree with it, no, but I don't see any other option.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post


    And why does our federal government have to subsidize those with pre-existing conditions?Simply have insurance companies offer plans with higher premiums for those with pre-existing conditions. Aside from that, why are American citizens begin made into tax slaves to finance the medical needs of those who have invaded our borders? This has to end!

    JWK


    The unavoidable truth is, the Democrat's plan for “free” college tuition will be paid for by taxing millions of college graduates who worked their own way through college and are now trying to finance their own economic needs.

    It's actually worse than that. People who couldn't go to college because they didn't want to, didn't have the grades or had to go to work to support themselves or their families will be paying for it, too. I'm totally opposed to free college at any level for any purpose.
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    Senior Member lorrie's Avatar
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    Senate report: Illegal immigrants benefited from up to $750M in ObamaCare subsidies

    Senate report: Illegal immigrants benefited from up to $750M in ObamaCare subsidies

    February 08, 2016


    Oct. 27, 2012: A Tea Party member reaches for a pamphlet titled "The Impact of Obamacare", at a "Food for Free Minds Tea Party Rally" in Littleton, New Hampshire. (Reuters)

    Illegal immigrants and individuals with unclear legal status wrongly benefited from up to $750 million in ObamaCare subsidies and the government is struggling to recoup the money, according to a new Senate report obtained by Fox News.

    The report, produced by Republicans on the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee, examined Affordable Care Act tax credits meant to defray the cost of insurance premiums. It found that as of June 2015, “the Administration awarded approximately $750 million in tax credits on behalf of individuals who were later determined to be ineligible because they failed to verify their citizenship, status as a national, or legal presence.”

    The review found the credits went to more than 500,000 people – who are illegal immigrants or whose legal status was unclear due to insufficient records.

    The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services confirmed to FoxNews.com on Monday that 471,000 customers with 2015 coverage failed to produce proper documentation on their citizenship or immigration status on time – but stressed that this does not necessarily mean they’re ineligible.

    “Lack of verification does not mean an individual is ineligible for financial assistance, but only that a Marketplace did not receive sufficient information to verify eligibility in the time period outlined in the law,” CMS spokesman Aaron Albright said.

    The Senate report also accused the administration of lacking a solid plan to get that money back – and predicted that in the end, the IRS will be “unable to fully recoup the funds.”

    “The information provided to the Committee by the IRS and HHS reveals a troubling lack of coordination between the two agencies ... and demonstrates that the IRS and HHS neglected to consider how they would recover these wasteful payments,” the report says.

    Under the law, the feds can dole out these payments on a temporary basis if a recipient’s legal status is unclear, but are supposed to cut off funding and coverage if the recipient does not later come up with the paperwork. Up to a half-million “ineligible” people, according to the report, applied in this way -- with their credits paid in advance to the insurers. The IRS, though, is supposed to get overpayments back from the individuals themselves.

    The Senate report, based on a review launched by committee Chairman Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis., derisively describes this approach as “pay and chase.”

    In other words, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services pays credits and subsidies to the insurance companies on behalf of the applicants – and the feds then “chase” after any overpayments to ineligible people once they are discovered.

    “This ‘pay and chase’ model has potentially cost taxpayers approximately $750 million,” the report says. The 500,000 individuals in question have been removed from coverage, according to the findings, as the government seeks to get the money back.

    The Senate report says the IRS and HHS initially failed to coordinate on a plan for recouping funds, and claimed that a subsequent plan from the IRS to recoup the money is still “ineffective and insufficient.”

    In a July letter to Johnson, IRS Commissioner John Koskinen assured that the agency is “committed to identifying and efficiently addressing” improper payments. He reiterated that anyone “not lawfully present” who enrolls for ObamaCare coverage “must repay” the advance premium credit payments, and would be breaking the law if they don’t.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016...subsidies.html
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  8. #8
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Most of those with pre-existing conditions probably couldn't afford the higher premiums, that's why their plans would have to be subsidized by us. Do I agree with it, no, but I don't see any other option.


    When I grew up in the 50s people paid for their own health insurance, many of which got their health insurance through their employer and was viewed as a benefit. And I don't recall people dying in the streets because of a lack of healthcare. We need to get back to people paying their own way, and let charitable organizations help those in need. To not do so and to allow government to tax one individual for the economic benefit of another violates the very foundations under which our government was established.

    Let us recall the reasoned thinking of one of our forefathers who addresses this very issue!


    "Under a just and equal Government, every individual is entitled to protection in the enjoyment of the whole product of his labor, except such portion of it as is necessary to enable Government to protect the rest; this is given only in consideration of the protection offered. In every bounty, exclusive right, or monopoly, Government violates the stipulation on her part; for, by such a regulation, the product of one man's labor is transferred to the use and enjoyment of another. The exercise of such a right on the part of Government can be justified on no other principle, than that the whole product of the labor or every individual is the real property of Government, and may be distributed among the several parts of the community by government discretion; such a supposition would directly involve the idea, that every individual in the community is merely a slave and bondsman to Government, who, although he may labor, is not to expect protection in the product of his labor. An authority given to any Government to exercise such a principle, would lead to a complete system of tyranny." ___ See Representative Giles, speaking before Congress February3rd, 1792


    JWK



    American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax slaves and forced to finance the personal economic needs of millions of foreigners who have invaded America’s borders.




    Last edited by johnwk; 11-15-2016 at 10:02 AM.
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    Senior Member lorrie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    Unfortunately it's not going to happen. Trump has already said he is keeping that part of Obamacare. There is no way to get around it, the government will have to subsidize the care of those with pre-existing conditions. Yes, it is us the taxpayers who fund the government. The only option I can see is to separate the two groups into separate pools ..... those with pre-existing conditions and the basically healthy citizens. The basically healthy will pay for their plan, but the U.S. Government will have to subsidize those with pre-existing conditions. Maybe I'm wrong, but it is the only option I see. So our health insurance premiums won't be funding those with pre-existing health conditions, which means our premiums will go down, but our tax dollars will.

    If the government wants to subsidize the so-called 20 million low income and illegal aliens that now have free healthcare, then all U.S. Citizens need increased premiums to pay for it, not just the 7.5 Million people in the individual market as it is now.
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    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by lorrie View Post
    If the government wants to subsidize the so-called 20 million low income and illegal aliens that now have free healthcare, then all U.S. Citizens need increased premiums to pay for it, not just the 7.5 Million people in the individual market as it is now.
    The subsidies will be paid with tax dollars, not through increased premium cost. The money will come from a different pot ... a government pot if you will. Reducing premium costs and co-pays for Americans is the goal. That can't be accomplished by including those with pre-existing health conditions in the plan (that's what we have now). The subsidy cost will fall on the backs of all tax paying citizens, not just those paying insurance premiums. If Trump insist on keeping the 20 million with pre-existing conditions insured and expects to reduce cost, that's the only way I can see it working. The insurance companies providing insurance plans to those with pre-existing conditions will still have to be compensated for their insurance payouts and that will happen through government subsidies (our tax dollars), which will increase national debt.

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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