Thread: 207 ASU students can't prove legal status, will pay more $$$

What is the point in giving them scholarships if they won't be able to get a job after they graduate? Or might even get deported?

If this money had been given to a US citizen, at least we know that citizen will get a great job here and start paying taxes.

IT'S MADNESS I TELL YOU -- SHEER MADNESS!!!

A second e-mail sent to Johnnie Ray:

The word is your legal counsel says you are in compliance. That rings hollow as your legal consel appears to be in a shielding mode with a bunker type mentality. The report, the reporters, the State Treasurer and Mr. Martin all seem to think there is a problem, yet your regents block an investigation. Openess and transparency are what is needed not circling your wagon train. Where there is smoke there is fire and your regents are now pouring gasoline on the issue.

With every illegal alien allowed in college there is one American citizen student denied a seat. Whatever money the illegal alien is paying, it is not covering the entire cost of their education and you, nor your regents nor your legal counsel nor any politician or bureaucrat can legitimately argue against this fact. It's the "illegal" part of illegal alien that is the problem. To engage in any aiding & abetting of illegal aliens by any of our colleges is a slap in the face of every American citizen, American college student and taxpayer in our state and our country. Furthermore, it is against the law.

Hold an investigation into the extent of the problem and hold those responsible for providing American taxpayer assistance to illegal aliens accountable.

Colleges and universities are of course aiding and abetting illegal immigrants big time by spending money meant for citizen students on the illegals.Not that administrators and professors lose any sleep over this.

They should be forced to return any assistance AND cover the difference from semesters past.

I guess the sad part about this is that at least they wanted to go to college. Kudos for at least wanting to better themselves.

Originally Posted by ArticleIV

I guess the sad part about this is that at least they wanted to go to college. Kudos for at least wanting to better themselves.

Who wouldn't at taxpayer funded assistance, many of which had "scholarship" assistance. The issue is that they are illegally in the country and their attendance in college removes an available seat for an American citizen college student, not to mention the burden placed on their parents through taxpayer dollars going to illegal aliens.

A third e-mail to Mr. Ray:

Mr. Ray:

What we have here is an issue of LAW. To quote you in your reply to me (though out of context), "it really is as simple as that." To allow yourself to be "persuaded" by anyone that has an agenda of aiding & abetting illegal aliens (much less give credence to their demands), who by the way are ILLEGALLY in my state and country, is very disturbing to me. To allow illegal aliens to attend U.S. colleges is an egregious violation of immigration law and a very convincing case can be made in court as to it contributing to aiding and abetting illegals (which is expressly prohibited by the Immigration and Naturalization Act. Your job is to do what is right for AMERICAN CITIZENS, AMERICAN COLLEGE STUDENTS and the AMERICAN TAXPAYER not what the wishes are of illegal aliens and those people who are advocates for non- enforcement of our laws.

I object to any outreach exhibited by ASU to illegal aliens and I am furious that any taxpayer dollars are being utilized to provide illegal aliens with any benefits to enroll in college. I think a review of the definition of some terms are needed in this debate:

ILLEGAL:
1.) Unlawful; illegitimate; illicit; unlicensed.
2.) Illegal, unlawful, illegitimate, illicit, criminal can all describe actions not in accord with law.
3.) Illegal refers most specifically to violations of statutes.
reference: www.dictionary.com
The American Heritage Dictionary defines it as "prohibited by law."

ALIEN:
1.) a person who is not a citizen of the country.
2.) in the United States any person born in another country to parents who are not American and who has not become a naturalized citizen. There are resident aliens officially permitted to live in the country and illegal aliens who have sneaked into the country or stayed beyond the time allowed on a visa.
reference: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/alien

Those illegally in a country are not "immigrants". There is no such thing as an "illegal immigrant". An immigrant is involved with an established and orderly procedure of immigration (entering a country to which one is not native in order to settle there by legal process).

They are not immigrants, not undocumented immigrants (Kennedy, et. al’s favorite), not undocumented workers, not undocumented Americans (Harry Reid’s favorite), not economic immigrants (Big Business and Wall Street favorite) not immigrants without work papers, not people who are working (Enrique Morone’s favorite), not migrant workers, and not day laborers.

The government has defined them as "illegal aliens" and explicitly uses that term in all its laws and statutes. So keep it simple…a spade is a spade…they are illegal aliens. Furthermore, the illegal aliens we are specifically talking about are illegally in Arizona and are in attendance at ASU. If you don't see a problem here, the vast majority of American citizens do. Furthermore, let me remind you in the message posted on your Foundation website:

If you have any questions or ideas, please don't hesitate to contact me at johnnie.ray@asu.edu. Arizona State University is not cloistered and its light is not hidden. Our goal is to positively touch the lives of all citizens regardless of whether they ever set foot on our campus. And we hope you will want to help us achieve this mission.

Let me remind you...Your goal is to positively touch the lives of all CITIZENS. Pandering to, supporting financially and materially, and furthering the attendance of illegal aliens at ASU (or any college) is wrong and I consider it a slap in the face to every American citizen. Furthermore, it is a violation of law and it's consequences, unintended or not, encourages more illegal aliens to enter Arizona. Therefore, Mr. Ray, your foundation is certainly a contributor to this problem and I resent it.

Thank you for your time and the opportunity to discuss this serious situation that needs thoroughly investigated and rectified with you,

Sincerely,

There are 66 pages of comments on this story so far.

3,850 college students denied in-state tuition

Anne Ryman
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 9, 2008 12:00 AM
Nearly 4,000 students at Arizona universities and community colleges have been denied in-state tuition this year because they failed to prove they were legal residents. The largest share is at the community colleges.

Arizona universities and colleges recently began requiring students to prove their citizenship after state voters passed Proposition 300, a ballot initiative that prevents undocumented students from getting in-state tuition and state-funded financial aid.

Undocumented students can still attend colleges and universities, but they must pay out-of-state tuition. At many schools, the out-of-state prices are more than triple the in-state tuition.

Maricopa Community Colleges, the state's largest community college district, had the most students whose legal status was unverified, according to a recent report to the state's Joint Legislative Budget Committee. The report shows 1,720 students were ineligible for in-state tuition. Of those, 145 were denied state financial aid. The district has nearly 111,443 in-state students. Arizona State University reported 207 students were ineligible for in-state tuition, while University of Arizona reported 119 and Northern Arizona University reported 20.

College officials are still grappling with the impact of Proposition 300. Some of the effects are hard to measure because officials have no way of knowing how many students will drop out or will be discouraged from going to college by the higher prices.

"It's always difficult for us to make any definitive statement about people who aren't here," said Steve Helfgot, Maricopa Community Colleges vice chancellor for student and community affairs.

Helfgot said some unverified students are likely taking fewer courses each semester because they have to pay more for tuition.

Some colleges in the 10-college Maricopa system reported a drop in enrollment this fall that could be attributed, in part, to Proposition 300, Helfgot said. That theory is difficult to prove, however, because some colleges had already seen enrollment declines before Proposition 300. Mesa Community College has experienced sharp enrollment declines this fall in English as a Second Language courses that could be attributed to the new law.

Helfgot said college officials are trying to get the message out that undocumented students can still attend, although they will pay more.

"Does this (Proposition 300) create an added financial burden? Yes, it certainly does," Helfgot said. "Does it keep them out of school per se? No, it does not."

Arizona voters approved Proposition 300 by a wide margin more than a year ago amid growing anger over illegal immigration. Supporters, including former state Sen. Dean Martin, said state taxpayers shouldn't subsidize college tuition and financial aid for people who are in the country illegally.

Some college officials say the latest figures show unverified students make up only a small percentage of the student body.

Pima Community College in Tucson reported 1,214 students whose legal status was unable to be verified out of nearly 52,000 in-state students. College spokesman David Irwin pointed out that the 1,214 include students who didn't bother to complete the process to prove their legal residency, so "we don't really know their status."

"The widespread concern that potentially large numbers of students were receiving in-state status illegally has not been borne out by the facts," Irwin said.

State Rep. Russell Pearce, R-Mesa, said the total figure of nearly 4,000 reported by the colleges and universities is "too low to be believable," and he plans to request an audit.

"They've been fostering this for years, giving them grants and scholarships, and have bragged about 'we don't care where they come from.' I know there are some goodhearted people, but it's the law," he said.

University officials say they have been following the law.

At the University of Arizona, officials say they are aware that some students have dropped out because out-of-state tuition is too expensive for them, although they are unsure how many. Out-of-state tuition and fees at the UA total $16,271 this year, more than triple the $5,037 in-state price. Some students who applied to UA never followed through because they mistakenly feared that the university would share their undocumented status with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, said Paul Kohn, the UA's vice provost for enrollment management.

Kohn said some young people in Arizona, who were brought to the United States illegally years ago, have spent their lives preparing for college and now find the cost beyond their reach.

"It's so contrary to wanting to cultivate an educated workforce," Kohn said.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... 08-on.html

How about DENYING ANY College/University any NCAA Scholarships, any Post Season Play (any sport), No Hosting ANY NCAA Post Season Tournament/Bowl... After they figure out the cost they are losing for THEMSELVES & COMMUNITY, I think they will comply WITH THE LAW very quickly.