Thread: America Needs the Dream Act for Undocumented Students

The main reason "4 out of 5" are against it is because of how it is portrayed. If I learned one thing in Statistics, it is that you can easily lie with statistics. A poll's results can shift 180 degrees depending on HOW the question is asked. When one asks "Do you believe illegal aliens should be given in-state tuition to go to college?" you would get a whole different answer if one asked, "Do you think children brought here as children by illegals should be allowed to legalize?". I've seen some of the ways these questions are asked. DREAM is not all about giving illegals money to go to college, it is about giving hope to some people who have lost all hope. Most Americans would be pro-DREAM if ignorant fools would stop making it look like it is all about "illegal aliens" getting a free education via grants from the gov't.

Had DREAM only been about giving legal status to these people, it would of passed a long time ago. The bill is not all about giving illegals a free education as it is commonly portrayed. I've read the text of it. 6 years temporary status, then greencard, then after 5 more years they can apply for citizenship. That gives them 11 years to prove themselves fit to be U.S. citizens. Automatic citizenship? I think not. With the right enforcement provisions attatched to it, it will curb future illegal immigration as long as they are serious about it this time.

And lastly, polls conducted on websites are not valid. In order for a poll to be valid, it has to be done at random, such as going to a place like the mall and selecting every 5th person who walks out. Polls on CNN, FAIR, and other places where the visitor decides whether he wants to vote or not do not count because they are not random, they only reflect the personal opinion of the person who chose to participate, and people who visit certain website have a certain agenda (i.e. CNN.com is visited more frequently by Democrats and FoxNews.com by Republicans). This is obvious when you look at similar questions asked on both sites. On CNN.COM they will vote negative to anything related to Bush or his agenda, and the opposite is true for FOXNEWS.COM, where Bush's approval rating never decreases. Also, as I mentioned before it depends a lot on how the question is asked as well.

I think I will do a true random poll at my local mall just out of curiousity. I would gladly post the results on here. I can get my friend to video tape it incase the honor system is not valid with you guys. Give me some sample questions you would like me to ask regarding immigration, but try to make it neutral in the way that you ask it. I will ask every 5th person that walks out into the parking lot, it is a diverse area so no it will not be majority hispanic opinion.

Hi Daydreamer,

The illegal aliens' nerve center of the dream act, out of Arlington, VA, is right here:
http://www.immigrationportal.com/forumd ... 0f1d&f=230

I've seen some of the ways these questions are asked. DREAM is not all about giving illegals money to go to college, it is about giving hope to some people who have lost all hope. Most Americans would be pro-DREAM if ignorant fools would stop making it look like it is all about "illegal aliens" getting a free education via grants from the gov't.

I TAKE GREAT OFFENSE IN BEING CALLED A FOOL! I AM 100% AGAINST THE DREAM SCHEME. NO MATTER HOW IT'S WORDED, IT WOULD BE REWARDING ILLEGAL ALIENS WHO ARE BREAKING THE LAW BY THEIR MERE PRESENCE IN THE US. THIS BS ABOUT IT NOT BEING "THEIR FAULT" FOR BEING BROUGHT HERE ILLEGALLY MATTERS NOT. GUESS WHAT? IT'S NOT MY FAULT EITHER! DID YOU KNOW TAXPAYERS WOULD BE FORCED TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IN-STATE AND OUT-OF-STATE TUITION AT STATE RUN COLLEGES/UNIVERSITIES IF THIS DREAM SCHEME PASSED? HERE IN NC, THAT WOULD BE AT LEAST $15,000 PER YEAR PER ILLEGAL! AND WE HAVEN'T EVEN COVERED TAKING SEATS FROM CHILDREN OF CITIZENS WHOSE MONEY SUPPORTS THESE SCHOOLS.

I've read the text of it. 6 years temporary status, then greencard, then after 5 more years they can apply for citizenship. That gives them 11 years to prove themselves fit to be U.S. citizens.

Is this before or after they belly up to college admissions offices.

I think I will do a true random poll at my local mall just out of curiousity.

I've already done a random poll in my community. I've talked with people I know and people I don't know. 100% are against illegal immigration and against the DREAM SCHEME. Of course, mine is a small, rural community that hasn't been taken over by the invasion YET. I plan to do everything I can to prevent it from happening.

QUESTION, DAYDREAMER.......how much of your hard earned paycheck goes to subsidize illegal aliens? What is the percentage of increase in your property value in the last 10 years? I've seen my property value increase 300%. If you're unfamilar with property value, that means my property tax also increased 300% in 10 years. Know why? It's because counties are responsible of paying over 50% of the K-12 education of ILLEGAL ALIENS. Now they're wanting to pay in-state tuition. Gimme, gimme, gimme is all these people know. I have my own family to support and am sick and tired of supporting children of illegals.

Here's a thought. Let those who advocate the DREAM SCHEME put THEIR money where THEIR mouth is. Let THEM pay the difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition for these people.

Allow this "ignorant fool" that played a key role in defeating your precious Dream Act in North Carolina eductate you. We slapped down HB 1183 with ease and it never saw the light of day due to massive public opposition.

I know all about polls. If you had read my profile, you would see that I am a campaign consultant with 16 years of experience and 40 campaigns under my belt.

The 4 of 5 or over 80% statistic I have mentioned has been verified by several professional and CERTIFIED polls conducted with likely voters. The online polls show even a higher yield of close to 90% opposition. We are talking about multiple professional polls and multiple online polls that all say the same thing.

The supporters of your Dream Act, did create ONE poll where they hammed up the wording just like you are describing and the most they could get was half support for Dream.

Dream act was defeated in NC and FL. It was massively defeated in MA which is a liberal state. If it gets shot down there by such a large margin, that SHOULD TELL YOU SOMETHING.

The other states that have Dream Act legislation got it because the provision was sneaked into law before the public could respond. Now there are active attempts in each state to REPEAL this horrible legislation.

I'm glad you are here to discuss this.

The more it is discussed in the open... The less support you have.

You can throw in all the language about poor children and green cards, but it will not save your extremist view that illegal aliens should get taxpayer funds to send them to college.

So keep it up please. But I would be careful about throwing the word "fool" around.

Our revised version of "How do Defeat in-state tuition for illegal aliens" is being updated with the lessons learned from FL and MA (after the NC Battle) and will be sent to all states.

This document helped FL and MA defeat your measure and I am very proud of what we accomplished here and our help of other fighting your immoral legislation.

W

Okay so would you be against DREAM as much if it did not cover the in-state tuition? I think a lot of people wouldn't be as much against it. As for where my taxes are going, I have no control over it. If the gov't wants to use it to subsidise educations for illegals then its up to them, they are in charge of what happens with taxes. All I know is a pay them, and they decide how to spend it. My taxes go to welfare recipients, not because I want it to but because I have no control over what the government does with it. I do not agree with the welfare system and that should be reformed as well.

I am not numb to plea's from the undocumented yet, especially children who had no say in whether to come here or not and now have to return to a country they do not know. After a while I am certain I will begin to sound like most of the people on here, but I am a recent greencard receiver and the anti-immigration fight hits a little too close to home (I am offended by it actually). After being a citizen for a few years I am sure I won't care anymore for their plight.

1. "As for where my taxes are going, I have no control over it. If the gov't wants to use it to subsidise educations for illegals then its up to them, they are in charge of what happens with taxes."

No, it is OUR government and it is up to us what happens with OUR taxes.

2. " am not numb to plea's from the undocumented yet, especially children who had no say in whether to come here or not and now have to return to a country they do not know. "

We cannot allow people to use their children as human shields. The reason why is that MORE LAW BREAKERS will use their children as human shields if we reward that behavior.

Rewarding wrong behavior leads to more wrong behavior. We are doing many children around the world a favor by not allowing these pro-illegal activists to use children as a wedge issue.

W

Hi Daydreamer,

If I may jump in here. You are working hard for citizenship and doing it the right way, according to procedures. After you become a citizen, I venture to say you would hate to see all you worked for get de-valued.

What Kennedy and McCain want to do is devalue all of our citizenships by granting amnesty in the form of H-5B visas (with the right to force citizens out of their jobs) to what will amount to 36.5 million illegals-to-H-5B status (who have crossed the border and who plan to cross).

The H-1B and L-1 visas make a mockery out of our citizenships when it comes to employment - specifically priority of hire goes to the H-1Bs and L-1s over US citizens in practice. Likewise, the body shop employees, who are domociled in India, are used to force citizens out of their jobs thru "knowledge transfers." They literally travel to the US, get trained by US citizens, and return to Bangalore as those who trained them are fired.

It has been predicted and posted before that the combined strengths of the H-1Bs, the L-1s and the body shop employees domociled in Bangalore, will wipe out America's IT profession twice over by around the year 2010. By twice over, they will be used to impact adjunct professions, not just IT, and send others to the unemployment lines.

Carly Fiorina rubbed salt into the wounds (while she was CEO of Hewlitt Packard) with her infamous quote, "No American has a God given right to a job."

Daydreamer, after you become naturalized, I sincerely hope you will run for elected office.

Yeah this job outsourcing crap has to stop. As a business major we are brainwashed to only think about the bottom line and its really disgusting. I wouldn't exploit anyone for a profit. I would rather pay $3,000-4,000 for a PC made in America than one that costs $1,500 to assemble with parts from Asia than put American workers out on their butts. When I got my first computer it cost around $3,000. That was back in the early 90s when most of IT and silicon chips were still majority American and technology wasn't so cheap, and you know what? It still works to this day, although it is a little outdated. I have had nothing but problems with my past 2 PC's and one laptop with parts from various other countries.

Hi Daydreamer,

Originally Posted by daydreamer

Yeah this job outsourcing crap has to stop. As a business major we are brainwashed to only think about the bottom line and its really disgusting.....

The offshoring never was necessary to begin with. About 5-6 years ago Telco completed the undersea fibre optics linking Bangalore and other cities of India with UK, US, Australia. Prior to that, business were doing fine without offshoring. Therefore, it's just another myth that "we can't live without it." It's like drugs, now companies are addicted to Bangalore.

The real reason today is Senator John Cornyn and ( our next president) Hillary Clinton.

Illegals and visa card holders share concerns about the Dream Act
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showth ... p?t=205981