Thread: Changing the immigration debate - M. Sanchez

Originally Posted by Richard

Anything by way of an estimate higher than 20 million defies basic common sense. It implies that America does not have any legal immigrants.

There is no official count of the combined numbers of illegals, and legals, so the assumed implications are without any basis.

There are only guesses, by any, and all, organizations.

Really? The please explain why the salaries at meat packing plants have DROPPED since the influx of illegal aliens? My cousin used to earn $22 an hour 15 years ago. The salary now is about half or less that now and guess who's NOT getting the jobs there?

I did a job where starting pay was 12.50 an hour in the early 80's. That was complete with full 100% paid for insurance benefits, paid vacation and holidays and sick days. Plus free travel for seminars. Uniforms paid for too. It was a career that was fairly new and depending on where you lived, it was a degree required field. There were quite a few things like that......couldn't be a pharmacy tech without some sort of education, hair dresser, dental assistant, physical therapy asst., x-ray tech etc. No you weren't a full fledged dentist or physical therapist or pharmacist or radiologist, but you weren't taken off the streets with nothing but a highschool diploma. It wasn't a 2 week course or something.....it was atleast a 2 year degree. I was taught to draw blood and do lab work, take and process x'rays, analize them to a degree, did physical therapy, but unfortunatly it wasn't something where I could interchange and be a phlebotomist, lab worker, etc. etc. I was limited to how far it could go and where I could do it.....but you had to have some education beyond the basics. Today.....it requires nothing. I was surprised how many professions recently have gone to nothing and require no education what-so-ever. As long as you are able to go through the motions....there's no requirement for you to know anything beyond that. No how's and why's or potential problems.....like the dental assistant who sat and watched a kid die because of anesthesia......a trained dental assistant whould have known what to watch for and what to do, besides watch. But hey....why bother when you can have anyone for minimum wage.

This started with the last amnesty.....the way it was presented to me was "right to work".....as long as you could go through the motions, you could do the job. I would have killed a patient if I wasn't trained because they had an old pacemaker and it would have been screwed up if I wasn't aware to know what questions to ask before I immediately followed a Dr's orders. Just like I wouldn't participate in medicare fraud coz the Dr. wanted me to. I was trained what to look out for and smart enough to know it would be my hind-end on the line if he were found out. They say you're only as strong as your weakest link and they cut out the trained back-up people. We never had problems with wrong medicine when there was a trained pharmacy tech as the second set of eyes with some knowledge behind the pharmacist. A trained x-ray tech asst. would have reported to the Dr. the problems I had with chest x-rays when my hips were fractured. She couldn't stand up......would be a hint. Sad when me, with my minor degree, found cancer in a friends x-ray and my daughters obvious broken collarbone......sorry it angers me. Not only in medical things but even in trades. I'm living in a house that is falling down around me because someone could hammer a nail and yet knew nothing about building construction. I worked at a big box store as a lowly employee but had to "step in" and be a pharmacy tech from time to time. Thank heavens I atleast knew something about it....others who filled in didn't know the difference between insulin and cough medicine.
I want someone on the beef line that is injured and knows what precautions to take vs someone bleeding in my meat because they are afraid to say anything and haven't been screened for disease. Right down to a maid who bothers to notice bed bugs and reports it, vs someone who just throws another sheet on and says nothing. My daughter is working in daycare and got her certification....but she doesn't get more pay because she isn't a "mother" herself. The "mothers" shove a baby bottle in kids mouths who are allergic to milk because they think it's no big deal and a pain, to get the soy formula out.. WTF does the kid know? Is there response. Who cares if the baby has a special rash and needs the meds the mother sent......it's such a pain when the regular ointment is right here. Who cares? All for the sake of cheap labor.

And the state of things today are a clear picture of the results of that.

Sorry for my rant. Ticks me off. I bet it would take miguelinas cousin 5 seconds to spot where the problems are......he's worth his 22 bucks an hour and probably wouldn't tolerate what they do today. He'd know is job is worth more than just going through the motions and effects more than just the companys bottom line.

Originally Posted by Bowman

Originally Posted by Richard

Anything by way of an estimate higher than 20 million defies basic common sense. It implies that America does not have any legal immigrants. The major immigration organizations CIS FAIR and NumbersUSA also refute the higher claims.

Well if you include anchor babies and past illegal aliens who received amnesty you get over 30 million. Maybe it's not the status these higher numbers refer to but all the people here due to illegal immigration.

There is ample evidence that the number, of anchor babies, being added to our population, each year, from the illegal immigrant population, is now around 350,000.

This is way more than just wages in this country, towns and states are in such chaos and anarchy all across this nation, illegal immigration and far too much legal immigration is destroying this country.Period.

I do include anchor babies and quasi legals (legal residents without the right to work that are working anyway such as the dependents of green card holders, visitors etc) that is how I get 20 million. Illegals plus Gray aka anchor babies and quasi legals. That is Gray with a capital G for Supreme Court Justice Horace Gray who perverted the 14th amendment.



No actually the major organizations have done quite a bit of calculation. The Bear Stearns is the group which first claimed 20 million out and out illegal aliens but other figures calculated by the same group of economists have bankrupted Bear Stearns in the mortgage market.

It seems that in my area I am seeing more illegals than before. But I am hoping that new drivers license restrictions will help. I do agree that economic conditions have been the REAL reason illegals have been packing up. Our enforcement has been belated, miniscule, challenged and subverted--and may possibly have only six months left at this present level.

My overall impression is that we merely have our finger in the dike---merely forestalling what will become an unstoppable flood. If the Democrats gain in Congress we will have to do everything possible to pick up a few more immigration enforcement votes----since Amnesty was only held off by a minority vote this last year. Call it going contrary to the will of the American people if you want---but it is Congressional votes that finally count.

[quote]At a Capitol Hill event to launch the report, Rep. Charles A. [b]Gonzalez, D-Texas, regretted how immigration advocates “lost our wayâ€

Any number of sources believed that there were 20 million, or more, illegals, already in our country in 2004, and they thought there were 3 million illegals entering our country each year. Border Patrol estimates of apprehensions, have ranged from 1 in 7, to 1 in 4.

http://tinyurl.com/5562z2

Thank you Bowman, and go Mr. Borjas. I find this piece of text of his email to Ms. Sanchez priceless:

You either are completely unaware of the subtleties of economic theory, or you are just a complete liar. There's no such revision coming out from me this spring or last spring or the spring before last. Perhaps you are confused about the difference between the short run and long run impacts of immigration-a difference I have stressed in my work for some years. If so, I suggest you read--and try to understand--some of the technical academic articles before you decide to ramble upon topics you know little about.

The effect of illegal immigration falls disproportionately on the young and the poor.

And the elderly because of rip offs and the middle class from declining education etc. I disagree with you......it effects everybody.....just at different levels and in different areas.

In all honesty.....when you look at the facts......seriously.....poor people in areas of the meat packing area didn't even know jobs were available.....those companies were saving them for the illegals and refugees. I lived in Florida and thought it would be so much fun to work at Disney or on their cruises......sorry....jobs not ment for citizens. I've been a maid and there was no shortage of people.....same with restaurant and carpentry. Dime a dozen as it was.....without illegals.

I live outside of Chicago......where are the jobs? They say they are out there but I've known people looking for YEARS in a variety of professions......sorry....not there. But a van of illegals is working and ready to retire in 5 yrs.?