Thread: E-Verify doesn't prevent many companies from hiring undocumented workers

Originally Posted by Judy

Fining and jailing employers that shuts down their business or results in the lay off of Americans for hiring illegal aliens the government is allowing to stay in our country makes no sense to me.

If they are employing illegals, that doesn't benefit American workers, it benefits people who are illegally in this country. There is also a thing called competition. A single business isn't usually the only business out there specializing in that product or service. If a company does get shut down, that will benefit the company who competes with the one that got shut down for employing illegals, and that company can hire even more Americans from the increased business.

But that doesn't happen anyway. I agree with MW, because I've seen it happen with companies who got busted employing illegals, they continue operating, but this time they are forced to hire AMERICANS. It would be nice if they also went to prison as well, in order to send a strong message to other criminal employers. Like MW said, there is always someone else in line to take over that position. If there isn't, then tough sh*t, let their competitors who follow the rules take on the extra business and make that extra money, and hire more American workers for all that extra business.

Originally Posted by 6 Million Dollar Man

If they are employing illegals, that doesn't benefit American workers, it benefits people who are illegally in this country. There is also a thing called competition. A single business isn't usually the only business out there specializing in that product or service. If a company does get shut down, that will benefit the company who competes with the one that got shut down for employing illegals, and that company can hire even more Americans from the increased business.

But that doesn't happen anyway. I agree with MW, because I've seen it happen with companies who got busted employing illegals, they continue operating, but this time they are forced to hire AMERICANS. It would be nice if they also went to prison as well, in order to send a strong message to other criminal employers. Like MW said, there is always someone else in line to take over that position. If there isn't, then tough sh*t, let their competitors who follow the rules take on the extra business and make that extra money, and hire more American workers for all that extra business.

I understand all of that, but putting Americans in jail because they hire people the government refuses to deport? Sorry, I support fines, but not jail. Our businesses aren't the criminals, they're just taking advantage of a resource the government allows them. Illegal aliens who come here and the bastards in DOJ, DHS, IRS, the Courts and in Congress who refuse to get them out of here and keep them out are the criminals.

I support fines, even shutting down their business for a week or something like that, but jail? No, sorry, I don't support that at all, while all these creeps in government enabling this crap and all these thugs pouring over the border roam around free as birds, and some poor schmuck trying to run a business, compete with Mexico and China and still serve his customers ends up behind bars? Oh no, I don't support that at all.

That makes our employers and businesses scapegoats for everyone else's wrong-doing long before they hired someone who lied on an I-9 form with a stolen social security number who shouldn't even be in our country to begin with.

Originally Posted by Judy

I understand all of that, but putting Americans in jail because they hire people the government refuses to deport? Sorry, I support fines, but not jail. Our businesses aren't the criminals, they're just taking advantage of a resource the government allows them.

Businesses who employ illegal aliens over Americans, are traitors. I say lock them up.

Originally Posted by Judy

That makes our employers and businesses scapegoats for everyone else's wrong-doing long before they hired someone who lied on an I-9 form with a stolen social security number who shouldn't even be in our country to begin with.

If the employer knows he/she is employing illegals, then yes, he/she should go to prison.

Originally Posted by Judy

That makes our employers and businesses scapegoats for everyone else's wrong-doing long before they hired someone who lied on an I-9 form with a stolen social security number who shouldn't even be in our country to begin with.

Really!? You believe a company that hires 400 illegals and 0 citizens are scapegoats for everyone else's wrong-doing?

Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders

Really!? You believe a company that hires 400 illegals and 0 citizens are scapegoats for everyone else's wrong-doing?

Exactly!

Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders

]Really!? You believe a company that hires 400 illegals and 0 citizens are scapegoats for everyone else's wrong-doing?

Americans including our American-owned businesses are the victims of this problem, not criminals. If one dairy farmer hires illegal aliens, then they all have to hire illegal aliens to compete with each other, just like our manufacturers dealing with free trade treason, once one leaves and goes to Mexico or China, they all had to leave and go to Mexico or China to compete with each other.

It took a lot of wrong doing by a lot of people for those businesses to hire illegal aliens or those manufacturers to relocate to foreign countries. Did you know that under our laws, there is no law that forbids an illegal alien from stealing a job from an American worker or taking one that's unfilled? They can go to the US Department of Labor and file claims for erroneous pay and other things and the US Department of Labor will protect them and go after the business for the shortages or whatever the issue is. Isn't that crazy? It's illegal for the employer to hire you but it's not illegal for you as an illegal alien to ask for the job or take the job. Isn't that nuts? To me that's just nutzo.

Our laws set up our businesses to be the scapegoats of illegal immigration, not the Border Patrol who lets them in, the sanctuary cities who protect them, the drug cartels who own the smugglers who bring them here, the networks who make the arrangements, not the IRS who launders billions of our cash out to them in household sums of thousands of dollars a year in earned income and child care tax credits, not the hospitals who treat them, not the schools who educate them, not the 95,000 employees of the US Department of Justice responsible for deporting them but doesn't, not the 225,000 employees of the US Department of Homeland Security who are paid to keep them out, but doesn't, not the landlord who profit from renting to them, not the utility companies who profit serving them, nope, no laws against any of that.

Nope, just our businesses who hire them. If that's not a scapegoat by definition, then I don't know what would be one. Again, I'm not opposed to fines and temporary closures like for a week or so, to sort everything out and get straight, but to send them to jail when an illegal alien can kill a girl in a park and walk out free as a bird? No, I'm not for jail time of employers unless they're involved in illegal drugs or smuggling or something more than just hiring people who showed up and wanted a job when no one else was breaking their door down and their competitors were doing it and on and on and on.

I just don't see the employers as the real villains here to the extent of jail time. I see the illegal aliens as the only real villains. I don't believe in transferring a crime of a foreign national in our country in violation of US immigration to an American employer looking for workers to operate a business who hires them because they are here, in their faces, begging for jobs.

I also don't think it's a wise strategy for our efforts to solve this problem. We need businesses on our side to ever win this. Anyone who thinks we can win this issue without them doesn't understand how our system works, if we make businesses our enemies, we'll end up with the biggest amnesty in the history of the world.

Take this number, there are just over 40,000 licensed dairy operations in the United States and that's 17,000 less than a decade ago. How many of those do you think hire illegal aliens? I don't know the answer to that, but I think a lot of them or most of them hire at least some illegal aliens. They were very vocal about their situation during 2016 campaign. And 1 or 2 were shut down because of those revelations and prosecuted. So to be fair to that industry, you would have to do a raid on all of them. But that isn't how it works, they'll go after 1 or 2, shut them down, and all their fellow dairy operatives who didn't get caught just benefit from their demise and pick up their slack even though they may be hiring more illegal aliens than the one that was raided and shut down. So the result is a weird type of discrimination, because there's no fairness in it.

Illegal aliens need to be the primary if not sole target, because they are the ones causing all the problems for everyone else.

Originally Posted by Judy

Americans including our American-owned businesses are the victims of this problem, not criminals. If one dairy farmer hires illegal aliens, then they all have to hire illegal aliens to compete with each other, just like our manufacturers dealing with free trade treason, once one leaves and goes to Mexico or China, they all had to leave and go to Mexico or China to compete with each other.

It took a lot of wrong doing by a lot of people for those businesses to hire illegal aliens or those manufacturers to relocate to foreign countries. Did you know that under our laws, there is no law that forbids an illegal alien from stealing a job from an American worker or taking one that's unfilled? They can go to the US Department of Labor and file claims for erroneous pay and other things and the US Department of Labor will protect them and go after the business for the shortages or whatever the issue is. Isn't that crazy? It's illegal for the employer to hire you but it's not illegal for you as an illegal alien to ask for the job or take the job. Isn't that nuts? To me that's just nutzo.

Our laws set up our businesses to be the scapegoats of illegal immigration, not the Border Patrol who lets them in, the sanctuary cities who protect them, the drug cartels who own the smugglers who bring them here, the networks who make the arrangements, not the IRS who launders billions of our cash out to them in household sums of thousands of dollars a year in earned income and child care tax credits, not the hospitals who treat them, not the schools who educate them, not the 95,000 employees of the US Department of Justice responsible for deporting them but doesn't, not the 225,000 employees of the US Department of Homeland Security who are paid to keep them out, but doesn't, not the landlord who profit from renting to them, not the utility companies who profit serving them, nope, no laws against any of that.

Nope, just our businesses who hire them. If that's not a scapegoat by definition, then I don't know what would be one. Again, I'm not opposed to fines and temporary closures like for a week or so, to sort everything out and get straight, but to send them to jail when an illegal alien can kill a girl in a park and walk out free as a bird? No, I'm not for jail time of employers unless they're involved in illegal drugs or smuggling or something more than just hiring people who showed up and wanted a job when no one else was breaking their door down and their competitors were doing it and on and on and on.

I just don't see the employers as the real villains here to the extent of jail time. I see the illegal aliens as the only real villains. I don't believe in transferring a crime of a foreign national in our country in violation of US immigration to an American employer looking for workers to operate a business who hires them because they are here, in their faces, begging for jobs.

I also don't think it's a wise strategy for our efforts to solve this problem. We need businesses on our side to ever win this. Anyone who thinks we can win this issue without them doesn't understand how our system works, if we make businesses our enemies, we'll end up with the biggest amnesty in the history of the world.

Take this number, there are just over 40,000 licensed dairy operations in the United States and that's 17,000 less than a decade ago. How many of those do you think hire illegal aliens? I don't know the answer to that, but I think a lot of them or most of them hire at least some illegal aliens. They were very vocal about their situation during 2016 campaign. And 1 or 2 were shut down because of those revelations and prosecuted. So to be fair to that industry, you would have to do a raid on all of them. But that isn't how it works, they'll go after 1 or 2, shut them down, and all their fellow dairy operatives who didn't get caught just benefit from their demise and pick up their slack even though they may be hiring more illegal aliens than the one that was raided and shut down. So the result is a weird type of discrimination, because there's no fairness in it.

Illegal aliens need to be the primary if not sole target, because they are the ones causing all the problems for everyone else.

Wow, I don't even know where to start responding to this nonsense, so I won't. However, I will say this ... you certainly pegged out my B.S. meter.

Judy, I consider you a friend on here, although we're disagreeing like hell on this particular thread. Let's take a breather. Here's a video of me back in the 1970s fighting Bigfoot. Now that we're older though, me and bigfoot are good buds, like my avatar shows. We go and have a beer once in a while. He actually saved my ass a couple times in bar fights. He's a good person/bigfoot to have on your side in a bar fight.

Originally Posted by 6 Million Dollar Man

Judy, I consider you a friend on here, although we're disagreeing like hell on this particular thread. Let's take a breather. Here's a video of me back in the 1970s fighting Bigfoot. Now that we're older though, me and bigfoot are good buds, like my avatar shows. We go and have a beer once in a while. He actually saved my ass a couple times in bar fights. He's a good person/bigfoot to have on your side in a bar fight.

LOL!! Oh you will always be my friend, no matter when we disagree on one plan or another to solve this awful problem. I've always been the 1 girl out on mass deportations, so don't feel bad about our disagreeing on this. No one here has ever really wanted mass deportations, they want to freeze 'em out, starve 'em out, dry up all the "magnets" and "lures", rely on the "rule of law" and hope they just go away. No, they won't, they'll just run drugs, breed like rabbits, and wait until DemoQuacks are back in office and get amnesty. We have a very short window of time to solve this problem, we'll never have another Trump, we'll never have another President even willing to talk about this subject in any terms other than amnesty, so he's our last chance to get them out of here. That's why all of our focus needs to be on rapid mass deportation through state and local law enforcement.

In my opinion, of course, and all we need to get that rolling is an Executive Order authorizing state and local law enforcement to enforce US immigration law without fear of reprisal or litigation from the federal government for doing so.

Originally Posted by Judy

No one here has ever really wanted mass deportations, they want to freeze 'em out, starve 'em out, dry up all the "magnets" and "lures"

And you are against this?

Originally Posted by Judy

In my opinion, of course, and all we need to get that rolling is an Executive Order authorizing state and local law enforcement to enforce US immigration law without fear of reprisal or litigation from the federal government for doing so.

Have you looked at the news in the last couple of years? States are suing the federal government so they can disobey federal immigration laws. It is not about allowing them to cooperate with federal law enforcement, it is getting them to cooperate with federal law enforcement.