Thread: The H-1B Visa Program Mocks Representative Government

I know that most of the H1Bs stay put in US and become citizens. Regarding education, you only have to tune in to Lou Dobbs to know the reality of education in US. When you want to believe whatever is said regarding the H1B, I think, by the same token, also believe whatever he has to say about education system in US with its dwindling numbers. US education is trying to play catch-up with the world.

Again people are not dumb here. But, the syllabus is pretty lame. I know that Calculus is just an elective and is not compulsory in all high schools, unlike in India. Foreigners do not conclude that education here is deficient. People like Lou Dobbs do.

Regarding your allusion to remittances, it is quite interesting. What has it got to do with 'cheap H1B labor', in your own words. On one hand you seem to say that H1Bs are paid cheap and on the other hand, you say that NRI's send tons of money to India. If they are paid dirt cheap, then these NRI's cant send that much money back home, which means that these are well paid.

Another thing you have to understand is the cultural aspect. Parents spend all the money for their kids including paying for education until the Bachelors or some times even the Masters level. Students there do not spend a penny on their education. Once they become earning members, they liberally send money to their parents. Nobody expects but it always happens. Anyways. what is the big hue and cry about when people send their earnings to whoever they want to ? After all, we all pay taxes here for the money we earn here.

Our syllabus is pretty weak, but let me see if I can understand
your point with my poor primary ed...

Again people are not dumb here. But, the syllabus is pretty lame. I know that Calculus is just an elective and is not compulsory in all high schools, unlike in India. Foreigners do not conclude that education here is deficient. People like Lou Dobbs do.

Dude, in India 30% of the people are ILLITERATE. Yes, calculus
for the elite, basic reading for the workers??? Our federal judges
& congress do not permit local schools to only take the cream of
the crop. If you have to educate ALL the people in India to the
same level, you would be much worse than the US. Admit it. You
cannot even feed all your people, let alone have them all designing
ICs.

Regarding your allusion to remittances, it is quite interesting. What has it got to do with 'cheap H1B labor', in your own words. On one hand you seem to say that H1Bs are paid cheap and on the other hand, you say that NRI's send tons of money to India. If they are paid dirt cheap, then these NRI's cant send that much money back home, which means that these are well paid.

Lots of H1-Bs at my former employer. They were paid fine. If the
jobs can be outsourced, why not outsource when it is supposedly
25% of the cost. I'll tell you a secret: the software from 4 Indian
developers can be written by 1 senior person in the US & it is not as
defective. The reason why outsourcing has fallen away & they are
clamoring for H1-Bs is the poor quality that is coming from off shore.
If the quality were so superior, no one would be writing SW in the US
anymore.

Another thing you have to understand is the cultural aspect. Parents spend all the money for their kids including paying for education until the Bachelors or some times even the Masters level. Students there do not spend a penny on their education. Once they become earning members, they liberally send money to their parents. Nobody expects but it always happens. Anyways. what is the big hue and cry about when people send their earnings to whoever they want to ? After all, we all pay taxes here for the money we earn here.

If India is such an economic tiger, why not have more social spending so
remits are not needed. Oh, that's right, you cannot teach 30% of
your people to read!!!

I have been in US for more than 6 years. You have not been outside this part of the world. I have more knowledge of US and India than you. I'm not here to fight with anybody, neither does it amuse me. If you want to be in denial, good for you. All I thought was that since US has been helpful to me, I wish to be helpful too by pointing out the facts, the honest facts. That is why I do volunteer service to young kids here in educating them in Math. You can either take it or leave it. I have no problem.

Infact, in India, to the best of my knowledge, more than 30% are illiterate. The reasons are not that difficult to understand. It has more than a billion people, is a developing country, 25% of people are in poverty and about 60% of a workforce of 590 million is primarily in agriculture. US is the most technologically advanced and developed country in the world, has about one-fourth the population of India, is 7 times larger than India, but still you see people without jobs, 50% of school students have tasted drugs, 60% of high school students drop out in California, graduation rates are dwindling, an average debt of an American is $8000, 60% of people are obese, poverty is omnipresent in the downtown area with homeless asking for a dollar, US tech companies still need 65000 + 20000 + more high skilled workers from a country which is well known for its illiteracy (30%) and whose primary job is in agriculture! First try to feed all 290 million people in the most advanced country and then ask about feeding 1.2 billion people in a developing country.

Outsourcing has not fallen away, in fact it is growing everyday. BTW, why should US government clamor for increase in H1Bs when the code written is so defective and pathetic ? Whether they are in H1B or the job is being outsourced, it is still the same Indian guy, isn't it ?

What is your problem with sons and daughters sending their money earned to their parents ? Oh that's right, it is quite unheard of here. People send money out of love, not as a requirement. India is the 4th largest economy after US, China and Japan based on PPP.

Thank god that 30% of people in India can't even read or write (as you mentioned). Otherwise, there would be that much more competition.
Wonder what would happen in 10 years time.

US tech companies don't need to do anything but hire back the throngs of competent, productive Americans they let go. And what does obesity have to do with any of this?

India needs to prosper by internal development to serve India, not by taking in work from other countries like some laundry service. And, slandering the people whose jobs are stolen by this system only adds insult to injury. We never needed all this 'help' from India.

Obesity has as much to do with this as "You cannot even feed all your people, let alone have them all designing ICs." If there is a full stop on personal attack and cultural attack, it will be reciprocated.

You say you never needed all this 'help' from India, but I guess the US government does. Let me assure you that there will be increase in H1Bs soon. Not that it is going to help me, but that is the reality. I base it on the fact that my manager (US citizen, not Indian American) is trying to hire from India directly just because there is a 'shortage' in US workforce.

Both the House and Senate will pass the H1B increase by a landslide. No, please do not mistake it as arrogance, but that is the stark reality.

I'm always grateful to US for giving me the opportunity to prosper. I personally have so many American friends myself. I do not want any of them to be laid off or for that matter any American because of h1b fraud, but I still maintain that there is acute shortage.

This is another Indian cultural trait: my firsthand information over many years counts for nothing with them, as they will merely cite some socially prominent 'authority' such as the US government or big business, etc. And, that is supposed to settle the matter. The US goverment and big business have become addicted to the cocaine of cheaper, docile labor. And it is not neccessary to look any farther than that for the reason. I've heard from business owners who got cold calls from Indian bodyshops. First they wanted to discuss unmet staffing needs. Then they wanted to discuss replacing the existing staff. Dirty tricks are being played on American workers, and I don't care if h1b cites God Almighty, I know what I have seen with my own eyes over the last 7 years.

As long as we're dropping names, how about the New York Times?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/15/busin ... ei=5087%0A

h1b, thanks for your help. This forum is to discuss illegal immigration,
so you can have the last word. I've had this conversation so many times
with expats that it is boring. The story is always the same -- US is washed
up & system back home is so much better & superior. Yet for all the
talk, these constructive critics claw & scratch to stay here & beg for
green card sponsership. Actually, I'm glad because it reaffirms my
faith that this is the greatest country in the world & if we could get
back to enforcing our laws & constitution, we could address some of
the problems you so helpfully point out for us.







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Indian cultural trait ? I thought this forum doesn't allow such insensitive words to be used. BTW, I know Indian culture and American culture to differentiate and discuss the good and bad. Do you ? Just because you read 100 articles, doesn't mean you know about the other culture.

What is my point of being in this forum ? Is it to brag, be arrogant, be happy at American worker displacement ? NO! My intention is to truly highlight what I think is wrong, what should be done and how America can be better. For that, I think we have to be honest with each other instead of taking umbrage at little things of insignificance. That is the only way everybody can improve.

I hope people here look at me as a constructive critic who is interested in the welfare of the country, not as a competition. Even if one person thinks like that, I will be very happy. I believe that the best way to learn about one is to ask others, just like I myself have benefited from people here. I never took offense when people criticized me because I knew that only people who really care are willing to take time to suggest.

Actually, I first had it explained to me in the Indian press - I'll try to find you the article. Before that, I didn't understand what I was seeing in these debates.