Thread: India's game plan - American jobs

I know lots of Americans who are educated, skilled, and have immense natural aptitude for the IT profession, and who have proved it over their lifetimes of contributions towards making this country a world leader in technology, engineering, and science. I also know lots of them that were forced out of the profession in recent years, some forced to train their replacements. You may be earning good money, but the average for H-1bs overall is around $13,000 less than their American counterparts. A look at a government H-1b visa application database shows batch applications for all sorts of rank and file workers. It simply isn't true that Americans suddenly became incompetent and uninterested in the professions they recently led the world in. Tell yourself all the fairy tales you want, but the facts are already out there. By all means tell yourself that Indians are different, they work harder and are more deserving of American jobs than Americans. It will make you feel better.

As for trying to find 'white/hispanic' resumes, I would need to know more about where you posted, and what you said you were looking for. And did anyone screen the resumes before they got to you? Companies have a million legal ways and means to screen out local candidates. Do you still have the advertisements?

My post continues-
First answer to this question
-H1-B ARE NOT PAID $13,000 LOWER THAN CURRENT SALARIES.Department of Labour will sue.In fact, most of the RFE (Request for Evidence) in final stages of Immigration is around-Ability to pay current wages.First verification done for H1-B petition is to make sure that salaries to that H1-B are equal to prevalent wages.
Second Answer:
When we advertise for a post-We don't specify any nationality,colour ,ethnicity. PERIOD.I work for a company which was found by H1-B visa holder and today employs 40,000 US workers.
But, while screening resume,we make assumptions looking at name and then make sure that *THEY DO GET IN FOR INTERVIEW AT LEAST*
Indians have to US to get international experience.,What will they gain by hiring fellow countrymen?
Unfortunately, in high tech world-it is quality of skill sets which matter. Technical interviews are brutal.It doesn't matter if you are on H1-B, Permanent resident of US Citizens. How well do you know your Programming language,your analytical skills.I got rejected by 5 major companies in my technical interviews.It wasn't because of my skin color , my religion, my accent or experience. I couldn't answer question like these-
What modifiers can be used with a local inner class?
Whats the difference between notify() and notifyAll()?
When you serialize an object, what happens to the object references included in the object?

If there are technical people on this forum, they will know what I am talking about.




Some unknown facts about India
-India was economic world leader till 1750. It is not too long ago. India and China were controlling 75% of world trade. This is same level as US is controlling.
-Indians have not migrated from anywhere. This is at least 10,000 year old civilisations.People in Indian subcontinent have stayed and lived in that part of world since last 10,000 years-(that is 8000 years Before Christ).AFAIK, There is no plan to mass migrate to US in near future
-Indian agricultural resources and (lack of )US agricultural resources can not be compared
-Indian fertile land is ploughed at least twice a year. So you just double the number of acres available. Some where , it is even thrice
-Sunshine throughout and Ganga basin river area is most fertile in the world.
What do you get?-Food for 1 billion people.
India is mostly vegetarian,we burn our dead so that precious land is not wasted in burial grounds, We still eat same food which we used to eat 5000 years ago-There is no secret family recipes concept. Food and seasons is intimately linked. We don't kill cows for a good reason and that is helping 70% of indian population (700 million) to survive on basics

My problem with US is so called "western civilization" and all the consumerism associated.Nobody is doing an analysis how much waste this lifestyle is generating.(Not just cars-but day to day life specifics)
-Too much water, too much wood products, too much processed food from natural food
-Indians didn't create outsourcing.US companies themselves did it for a good reason-TO REDUCE COSTS.
-Now, US companies are doing best they can to market their goods in other countries (including India).That's another matter that natural environment of that country is ravaged to no end.By flooding their goods, they ruin local industries of that country and take jobs away from local people-So when PEPSI comes to India, it is taking job of at least 10 workers who were supplying snacks locally.
Why do you thing Doha round of WTO talks are failing?
US has artificially subsidized cost of it's agriculture so that its cotton is cheapest in world. At least 5000 cotton farmers in India have committed suicide as a result of this. They are too debt prone. Irony is that-why did they take too much debt-Monsanto, - A US corporation sold cotton seeds at too high price promising good returns. These GM seeds are unsuitable for India as they need too much water.
US has only 25,000 to 30,000 cotton farmers. In fact, if US were to fix their agricultural prices, entire Africa would come out of poverty
So, I agree with people here , that Globalisation sucks.It sucks even more in poorer countries like India
Economics is a very complicated subject, and I suggest readers to do their homework first
Why do companies hire foreigners? Trust me, no employer wants to go through that legal quagmire of H1-B processing.It costs an employer $4000 per employee.Then they have to make sure that they pay that H1-B worker "SAME RATE" as prevailing wage.So, H1-B proves to be more expensive. Every year, my company has to file for an extension and pay $3000 more.I am senior engineer. I have clear cut instruction from my manager and HR-Find a Green Card/ US Citizen person first.We don't want to spend extra money on lawyer fees to hire a H1-B
In fact,H1-B employees have to pay Social Security also which there are not entitle to once they reach 65 years of age.(H1-B visa ends up after 6 years and most people do go back)
Back to original question-Why do they hire only foreigner- Go to US university-Any college..and tell me % of local americans taking up technical courses.
More than 50% are international students.Do companies have choice in that matter?
Indians or other countries didn't design H1-B or immigration or outsourcing nor lobbied for it. US has created this process ,for itself, by itself.
Every American is an immigrant.It is just matter of time when they immigrated.
In fact, I want permanent residentship.Why? So that I can create MORE jobs.Create more TAX DOLLARS for the county.More Profit means richer America for everyone.
I know people who have done their PhD in Computer Science from Urbana Champaign ,worked 5 years in US and now gone back to Bangalore.
Who lost? -USA
Why? After getting all the training from US ,these returned professionals are building stuff which directly competes with US technology.

I will answer the rest of your comments later, but for now, the Department of Labor will not do a darn thing. There are loopholes in the H-1b Visa law big enough to sail a Navy destroyer through, and ALL the alleged safeguards for American workers are a total and complete joke.

Oh, and I am not an immigrant, because I have no homeland to return to if America doesn't work out for me. I have no citizenship or legal standing in any other nation.

US technically belongs to native Indians , but unfortunately you killed them all.So now have to deal with this mess of Immigration as Europe wasn't enough for White people
__________________________________________________ ____________
Vicky,
Native Americans were slaughtering each other long before the white man came here, I don't believe any two tribes got along.

If it wasn't for the white man the native Americans would still be living in tepee's, smoking peace pipes, doing their laundry in a near by stream, and cooking on an open fire,

Even though the flight of the white man from the United Kingdom and Europe, was not nessesarly self imposed in the beginning, because our ancestors were uncermoniously delivered here on orders of the king,for several reason, some being, religion,others acts that the king condsidered criminal but we survived and the white American is some of the most creative, inovative people in the world,If you have been here for a while you will know we are brave ,proud, complain alot but we protect our own, we will fight our government, for our freedon our country and our rights.
We will deal with insourcing and out sourcing and I believe we will win in the end. we will deal with illegal immigration and we will win in the end, and all the other problems America has right now we will take that fight on to and we will win, why? because we are FIGHTERS, we love our country, our children and will protect their future, and we will not settle for 45 or 95cents and hour.

We welcome you and your opinion!!!!!

Yes, I will be interested in exploring those loopholes myself. I am arguing only on basis of "WAGES".
And even Navy Destroyer will have to give a Interview at US Consulate to gain entry to US so I doubt, it can go through.Even if you have been granted H1-B, you still need to get it stamped on your passport at US Consulate.

-I am not for increase or decrease in H1-B. That's for US businesses and Politicians and generally American public to decide. I am just saying from "employer" point of view-what it means to hire a H1-B and what conditions need to be fulfilled.I read somewhre on the forum., that H1-B worker don't need to pay their taxes!!!!.
I gave background about India because-Even though it looks like Africa from outside, it is not internally from inside.Nothing to do with hardwork or brains.Inside that chaos, somehow there is an order.
Corporations are prime evils in this globalisation world and developing world is suffering more as a result.
If Hardworking Americans are not getting IT / Technical jobs, don't blame H1-B, blame their technical skills and lack of ability to keep up. Even H1-B's are fired for this reason.All they are given is a one way ticket to home country.

That the Americans are fired because they weren't 'keeping up' is another myth. Azim Premji is spreading that one from his bully pulpit. Americans are often forced to train their replacements or else loose their severance pay. As one man was told: 'You can do the work of two Indians but not three.' (a reference to the relative wage differential)

Sounds to me like we are letting to many people come to America to receive their education.
Why aren't some of these other countrys building their own colleges and educating their own teachers?
I agree on one thing corporate America is bad for every middle class person in the world.
Our ancestors did not sit back and settle for 3rd world wages and we will not either.
THEY ARE AWAKENING A SLEEPING GIANT!!!!

You are perfectly right-US Universities are letting too many foreigners come to US soil.50% of US universities revenues come from foreign students. It is in US interest to attact talent from other coutries to benefit only USA
Azim Premji didn't spread any myth. I said in my previous post that it is *VERY* hard to get a job as programmer in US. Have you appeared to Google/Nokia/Motorola/ for an technical interview?
I have and it is brutal-I got rejected. I am on H1-B. My other friends on H1-B also got rejected.

Technical jobs are not like management or manufacturing jobs where you just show up with your degree and some flowery english words.
US politicians and businesses/universities are cleverer than American public.

US universities need foreign students to pay their fees. It is simple business for them.
When India was crying before 9-11 that don't support Islamists/ -they are all terrorrist..nobody listened as it was in American business interest to support Iraq/ Iran / Pakistan for whatever reason.Rest is history
bottomline: US businesses care for only their interest.
Search on internet on foriegn born Nobel prize winners in USA
-Physicist Enrico Fermi, father of the world’s first controlled nuclear fission chain reaction, came to the United States in 1938 to escape the fascist dictatorship of Mussolini. -
-Edward Teller, a Hungarian native, emigrated in 1935 and became an American citizen in 1941.
-Danish physicist Niels Bohr escaped the Nazi occupation of Denmark and joined the Manhattan Project as an adviser.
-One fourth of the engineering faculty members at U.S. universities were
born abroad.
-Between 1990 and 2004, over one third of Nobel Prizes in the United States were awarded to foreign-born scientists.

About a third of the U.S. winners of the Nobel Prize were born outside this country.
estimated 15 percent of U.S. scientists and 17 percent of U.S. engineers are non-native, according to a 1999 report by the National Science Foundation.

Today, it isn’t just Europeans that contribute to our prosperity and security; the names are like those of Praveen Chaudhary (now director of Brookhaven National Lab), Venkatesh Narayanamurti (dean of the Division of Engineering and Applied Sciences at Harvard), C.N. Yang, (Nobel Laureate physicist, from the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton), Katepalli Sreenivasan, (recent director of the Institute for Physical Science and Technology at the University of Maryland); and Elias Zerhouni (who was born in Algeria and now is the director of the National Institutes of Health).
http://link.toolbot.com/nationalacademies.org/58796

American Corporations are already protecting US Citizens. All someone needs to do is learn Science / Maths / Computers and you are all set. Hey!
you already are English Speaking so it is not like you need to learn one more language.

Quote"Technical jobs are not like management or manufacturing jobs where you just show up with your degree and some flowery english words." Who said that? I've known people who've shown up with distinguished work records, superlative degrees, and a skillset that would take your breath away. But they couldn't even apply - the companies went straight for the H-1b and never posted the job where an American could see and apply. That is perfectly legal for most companies to do, and they do it all the time.

Originally Posted by greyparrot

There was a story in the business section of my paper today concerning large banks eating the added costs of having their call centers here, rather than India, because customers are extremely put off by discussing their accounts with foreigners. It went on to say that call center workers make a decent wage (if you consider $10.50 - $14.00 an "decent wage") whereas Indian call center workers typically make about 7% of that! That's like .75 to .98 cents and hour, how can Americans compete with that?

A couple of years ago, some businesses in England, had their call centers in a foreign country. Brits got tired of trying to get help for those products, they couldn't understand the foreign worker anyway.....they quit buying those products.

Those companies, were hurting....they decided to bring back the jobs.