Thread: India's game plan - American jobs

Vicky, your experience is just that - yours. You expect us to believe the testimony of one person when all of the existing evidence points to the contrary? Sorry, but there have been too many published studies clearly showing that there is NOT a shortage of American engineers and IT workers, necessitating the hiring of foreigners. These studies also show that foreign workers ARE paid less. Nice try but no cigars.

Vicky, your experience is just that - yours. You expect us to believe the testimony of one person when all of the existing evidence points to the contrary? Sorry, but there have been too many published studies clearly showing that there is NOT a shortage of American engineers and IT workers, necessitating the hiring of foreigners. These studies also show that foreign workers ARE paid less. Nice try but no cigars.

I know first-hand that the foreign workers ARE paid less. I worked for an attorney whose practice was mainly filing H1-b visa applications for large corporations mostly for IT managers and technicians. The salaries listed on the H1-b applications for the foreign workers were at least $10,000 - $15,000 less than what the applicants' American equals were being paid for the same jobs.

You guys believe what you want.My goal is not to ask for increase in H1-B visa.But clear mis perception about H1-B program and visa workers. When I say my experience , it includes about ~1000 H1-B visa (some from UK/France/ & Germany) friend circle.
All I am saying is that US corporations are pretty intelligent to have this H1-B program which benefit only them.In Silicon valley job market is pretty good, but jobs come only to those who are able to clear technical interviews. H1-B Status doesn't matter.
When I applied for a job change in Silicon Valley
-My visa status was problem.Most of the employers had this job requirement- Only Citizens and Permanent residents.. Search Dice for this.
-Clearing Technical interviews and demonstrating good communication skills was second criteria.
Regarding salary depression, each salary band position has $30,000 variation. You can make up statistics as much as you want.Compared to other people in my group, I am making less, but then with me, there are some US Citizens too.So who complains?

Originally Posted by Vicky

You are perfectly right-US Universities are letting too many foreigners come to US soil.50% of US universities revenues come from foreign students. It is in US interest to attact talent from other coutries to benefit only USA
Azim Premji didn't spread any myth. I said in my previous post that it is *VERY* hard to get a job as programmer in US. Have you appeared to Google/Nokia/Motorola/ for an technical interview?
I have and it is brutal-I got rejected. I am on H1-B. My other friends on H1-B also got rejected.

Technical jobs are not like management or manufacturing jobs where you just show up with your degree and some flowery english words.
US politicians and businesses/universities are cleverer than American public.

US universities need foreign students to pay their fees. It is simple business for them.
When India was crying before 9-11 that don't support Islamists/ -they are all terrorrist..nobody listened as it was in American business interest to support Iraq/ Iran / Pakistan for whatever reason.Rest is history
bottomline: US businesses care for only their interest.
Search on internet on foriegn born Nobel prize winners in USA
-Physicist Enrico Fermi, father of the world’s first controlled nuclear fission chain reaction, came to the United States in 1938 to escape the fascist dictatorship of Mussolini. -
-Edward Teller, a Hungarian native, emigrated in 1935 and became an American citizen in 1941.
-Danish physicist Niels Bohr escaped the Nazi occupation of Denmark and joined the Manhattan Project as an adviser.
-One fourth of the engineering faculty members at U.S. universities were
born abroad.
-Between 1990 and 2004, over one third of Nobel Prizes in the United States were awarded to foreign-born scientists.

About a third of the U.S. winners of the Nobel Prize were born outside this country.
estimated 15 percent of U.S. scientists and 17 percent of U.S. engineers are non-native, according to a 1999 report by the National Science Foundation.

Today, it isn’t just Europeans that contribute to our prosperity and security; the names are like those of Praveen Chaudhary (now director of Brookhaven National Lab), Venkatesh Narayanamurti (dean of the Division of Engineering and Applied Sciences at Harvard), C.N. Yang, (Nobel Laureate physicist, from the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton), Katepalli Sreenivasan, (recent director of the Institute for Physical Science and Technology at the University of Maryland); and Elias Zerhouni (who was born in Algeria and now is the director of the National Institutes of Health).
http://link.toolbot.com/nationalacademies.org/58796

American Corporations are already protecting US Citizens. All someone needs to do is learn Science / Maths / Computers and you are all set. Hey!
you already are English Speaking so it is not like you need to learn one more language.

vicky,
American corporations are most certainly not protecting U.S. citizens, these days it doesn't seem to matter what Americans learn, they still insource or outsource the jobs sooner or later, and it all comes down to cheap labor, that is a fact!! millions of Americans have been displaced.
I know several people who have had to go back to college several times and change their occupation because of this.
we get alittle tired of everybody wanting to come here and live while at the same time want to change the customs, language and culture of our country to suit them, when in fact if they don't like our customs we have had the last 400 years they can go home, we can't!!!This is our orgin of history and birth. It may not be 10,000 years old but we have a great history of proud Americans, Its the reason we have a middle class in this country and has kept us from being a 3rd world country.
I believe it was Jean that said in an earlier posting that she was not an immigrant, and she was right, we were born here and this is our country, we are not a nation of immigrants, the majority of citizens have families with a long history's here. So it is up to us to try to save something of our country for our future generations. We also welcome anyone who wants to come here legally, and live by the rules and laws made by a our Demacratic Repulic. America is also a very giving country, believe me when I say the taxpayers of this great country have given alot of aid to countrys all over the world.They have always shared their wealth.
Now am I saying we are perfect, not hardly, and believe me, neither is our government. You might say Americans have been asleep at the wheel much to long, but hopefully 9/11 woke us up before it is to late to turn things around, we can only PRAY!!!!!!

Hello My name is Greg,
I want to share a little story about Indians here in the home land
This year about 10 days or so ago the news flashed a story about Goopy, an Indian and Amerstop store owner in southwestern Ohio (total of three stores)
Now goopy in general seemed to be a great guy around here
BUT ,It was the 3 arrests of selling the cold meds to people and over stock the shelves with Sudafed that got the news attention.
It would seem that after two warnings and three fines Goopy was still selling over the counter mass amounts of the drugs used to make meth .
And yet still
To this day the man is out on bond free
Guilty till proven innocent, or innocent till proven guilty ?

Let's say I have senior-level IT skills in a specialty that is needed for daily operations in every office and business. Let's say my English is pretty good and most people find me articulate and easy to understand. Let's say my work record of dependability and trustworthiness is pretty good. Let's say I have a graduate degree in my field.

An important difference here: in my opinion, NONE of the above (which all happen to be true) entitle me to enter another country and displace a competent, functioning breadwinner. The people I confront on the H-1b issue seem to have no such reservations. I understand that other nations regulate immigration for the benefit of their citizens and I don't complain about that. I wish our nation would consider that practice too.

H1-B Program was created by US Government.Foreign countries didn't ask for it. So obviously, whom does this program help?
As for H1-B displacing a US Worker,everyone is missing critical point.H1-B worker is hired because corporations can't find regular employee.There are too many legalities involve to hire one H1-B worker, so corporations actually avoid hiring H1-B. Search Dice for this restriction-"Sorry, no sponsorship".
After placing of a offer, H1-B worker can't start until 6 weeks (USCIS petition etc.)
When a project is outsourced, then even H1-B workers on that project are laid off.
Today competitive technical world requires exemplary technical skills to get a job.Try going for a Google interview.
Corporations routinely fire higher paid middle management, senior engineer to replace them with junior engineers.If that junior engineer has H1-B

Companies go straight for H-1bs all the time, and so do the bodyshoppers that staff the company's projects. It is simply untrue that there is any reluctance on the part of companies to bypass citizens and bring in H-1bs. If there is, going through a staffing firm and having them do the dirty work is an option. I used to do short term contracting so I know all about the arrangements that primary companies have with contingent staffing firms. If it costs $4000 but they save an average of $13000, why, even an American can do that math!

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

Let's say I have senior-level IT skills in a specialty that is needed for daily operations in every office and business. Let's say my English is pretty good and most people find me articulate and easy to understand. Let's say my work record of dependability and trustworthiness is pretty good. Let's say I have a graduate degree in my field.

An important difference here: in my opinion, NONE of the above (which all happen to be true) entitle me to enter another country and displace a competent, functioning breadwinner. The people I confront on the H-1b issue seem to have no such reservations. I understand that other nations regulate immigration for the benefit of their citizens and I don't complain about that. I wish our nation would consider that practice too.

Well put, couldn't agree with you more!!!
(we are not a nation of immigrants) anyone who believes that you has been brain washed!!

MYTH1: H1-B Displace US workers. Companies fire US Citizens and hire H1-B workers

http://link.toolbot.com/dice.com/58799
"Must be authorized to work in the United States on a full-time basis for any employer."
(Read that as No H1-Bs")
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/eng/258263767.html
"West Valley-Mission Community College District will not sponsor any visa applications."


MYTH2: H1-B drive down salaries as they are paid lower than current scale
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/sof/271311207.html
"COMPENSATION:
Attractive compensation $100K+ Base (depending on experience), Bonus and Stock Options. Travel will be required, as necessary "

All my friends started with 90K after graduating from MIT.They are now earning 120K irrespective of visa.

MYTH3: There is no shortage of experienced native born US scientists professional
True, because people who earlier came on H1-B/F-1 are now naturalized citizen who are providing this pool of scientific community

MYTH4: All Nobel prize winners in USA are won by native born US citizens
)

MYTH5: H1-B workers are illegal , who come here on H1-B and then don't pay taxes
))
MYTH6: H1-B is designed by US Government to remove poverty in 3rd world as foriegn aid.
)

I am glad that none of you guys are in Computers or hi-tech!!.

And thank goodness!. US Corporations have more sense than average americans.US would have soon lost its competitive advantage were it not for its immigration program.
Best thing you can do is to ask your kids to take up science and Maths.This is future of world economy.