Thread: Mattis OKs up to 4,000 National Guard troops for border

What you describe is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. But if you believe it, that's fine with me.

Originally Posted by Judy

What you describe is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. But if you believe it, that's fine with me.

It's not about whether I believe it or not. I didn't make it up. It's what is being reported. Like I said, if you've seen or heard something different, please provide it.

Mattis said they would be armed for self-defense. I already told you that. Take that to mean whatever you want it to. I think the earlier reports that you're going on were from Nielsen in DHS who got a little ahead of her skis, before Trump put Mattis in charge of this operation. Mattis is in charge of this operation because his Department is paying for it as a matter of national defense. If you want to think Mad Dog Mattis is using his military money and his troops to play Kelly Girl and Tune-Up Guy for Border Patrol, well, like I said, you are free to believe whatever you want.

Originally Posted by Judy

Mattis said they would be armed for self-defense. I already told you that. Take that to mean whatever you want it to. I think the earlier reports that you're going on were from Nielsen in DHS who got a little ahead of her skis, before Trump put Mattis in charge of this operation. Mattis is in charge of this operation because his Department is paying for it as a matter of national defense If you want to think Mad Dog Mattis is using his military money and his troops to play Kelly Girl and Tune-Up Guy for Border Patrol, well, like I said, you are free to believe whatever you want.

Okay, let's put that in the right context. Here's what was said:

The order, issued in response to President Donald Trump’s call for using troops to stem illegal immigration, specifies that National Guard troops will assist the Department of Homeland Security along the border but not perform law enforcement missions and will be armed only when necessary for self-defense.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/mattis-aut...border-mexico/

Well, since they won't be participating in law enforcement missions there will be no need for them to be armed, so I seriously doubt many, if any, will actually be armed.

Originally Posted by MW

Well, since they won't be participating in law enforcement missions there will be no need for them to be armed, so I seriously doubt many, if any, will actually be armed.

In the office, I would agree, but if they are out in the field where they could become targets, I would think they would be armed for self defense. They are not authorized to be aggressors, but if shot at, I would think they could shoot back which means they should be able to carry arms.

From MW's article:

Under federal law, troops are barred from performing law enforcement duties in most circumstances, and the order appears to restrict them to a support role unless Mattis authorizes a wider mission.

“National Guard personnel will not perform law enforcement activities or interact with migrants or other persons detained by (Department of Homeland Security) personnel without your approval,” the order drafted for Mattis and signed by him reads.

The order adds that troops will carry weapons only in “circumstances that might require self-defense.”

It’s unclear what operations or missions troops will perform along the border that might require them to carry weapons.

Although barred from interacting with migrants, troops could theoretically be part of joint patrols with Border Patrol officers that could carry risk. Few migrants crossing the border are armed but some patrols focus on interdiction of drug smugglers.

Pentagon spokesperson Dana W. White told reporters Thursday that planners are looking at sending National Guard units that can assist with aviation, engineering, surveillance, communications, vehicle maintenance and logistics support.

Lt. Gen. Kenneth F. McKenzie, Jr., the director of the Pentagon’s Joint Staff, said the military’s preference was for the troops to be armed for self-protection, as National Guard units used along the border have been in the past.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/mattis-aut...border-mexico/

The mission is to seal up the Southern Border per the order of the President of the United States using a military operation. General Mattis is in charge of the military operation to achieve this. I expect them to succeed and I believe they will. I sure hope so anyway.

Originally Posted by jtdc

In the office, I would agree, but if they are out in the field where they could become targets, I would think they would be armed for self defense. They are not authorized to be aggressors, but if shot at, I would think they could shoot back which means they should be able to carry arms.

How often will they actually be in a dangerous situation considering it is being reported that they will have no contact with illegal immigrants? If they are in the field, which may not be very often at all, they may be accompanied by armed border patrol agents. I'm only reporting what I'm reading and hearing. Not saying there will be absolutely no troops with weapons, but it sounds like they are purposely attempting to keep them out of situation where they'll need firearms. If you're reading or hearings something different, please share.

Originally Posted by MW

If you're reading or hearings something different, please share.

No, it's just logic. Much like police trying to handle a riot, they don't go in with guns drawn, but if they come under attack, they are armed to defend themselves. While the guard aren't supposed to apprehend anybody or chase them that doesn't mean they cannot be armed just in case.

Originally Posted by jtdc

No, it's just logic. Much like police trying to handle a riot, they don't go in with guns drawn, but if they come under attack, they are armed to defend themselves. While the guard aren't supposed to apprehend anybody or chase them that doesn't mean they cannot be armed just in case.

I understand what you're saying, however, I'm just repeating what I'm hearing and reading. I believe the hesitation to arm them is because they don't want to risk an international incident. Border Patrol gets enough bad publicity when they have a shooting at the border. Could you imagine the stink it would cause if the military went down there and killed some unarmed Mexican's? For example, just look at the situation that happened 19 years ago when those four Marines killed that 18 year old boy along the border.

The guy was only shot once, by 1 Marine, not 4.

Depending on the circumstances, it would be too bad, but we have a border and our government has a responsibility to secure it by all means necessary, whatever it takes. If some lives of foreign invaders are lost, then that's part of the risk of attempting to enter the US in violation of US immigration law. This isn't a baby shower, this is a military operation to seal the US border with Mexico.