Thread: ** The Greatest Mind-Hack Since Brains Were Invented **

I am not sure where the Clinton vs. Bush subject came from, they are obviously on the same team with common agendas, they even completed each others unfinished business after taking office. The rivalry between Clinton and Bush sr. was nothing more than media hype. Note how years latter Clinton and Bush sr. are like best of friends.
-They are all on the same side and I do not think it is our side.

Oh, they said they DID shoot down that fourth plane in PA so they did their duty. But that was far later than when the first three had already struck their "targets"

who said they shot down the fourth plane?

The 'official' report claims that it was brought down by its passengers, as well as the recently released movie.
- Despite eye wittiness accounts of seeing fighter planes intercepting the aircraft.
- Despite thermal damage to one of the aircrafts engines which was found miles away from the crash site.
- Despite being the first plane crash in history to leave a trail of debris several miles long before reaching the site of the crash.

A few other odd facts:
1) The planes hit the towers before most of the people arrived to work.
- why would a terrorist miss this kind of opportunity?
2) All of the flights passed over several potential targets that could have caused far more damage and taken far more lives. (nuke plants, etc.)
3) When Clinton was informed about the first trade center bombing he immediately said "Osama bin laudin"
4) Sadam's Iraq had much better air defense then the U.S.
5) 2 of the highest paid CIA 's operatives in history: Osama and Sadam
6) Where is Osama?

Skid, you sound like someone who has lurked around on whatreallyhappened.com or something :P

In all actuality - there are too many things about 9/11 that just don't make sense. As a matter of fact, they cannot make sense because the laws of physics and corruption continue to play a part.

When all is said and done, it was a MIND-HACK in order to institute the next phase of a globalist agenda. People can attack me all they want on such a statement and I will never, ever back down from it.

Didn't a certain someone play a part in starting a fire on a certain something one time to stage his very own dictatorship? Hmmm... if memory serves me well....

Yah!!

Skid, you sound like someone who has lurked around on whatreallyhappened.com or something

Never been there, but I do notice when I read and/or hear inconsistent facts about things.

That is why I asked about your statement regarding the fourth plane being shot down?

I want to be able to say that I gave it my all for my people

Based on that and "death to Aztlan" you have my vote concernedveteran

I don't think most Americans know what a terrible job Clinton

Actually he did not do much of anything, he was elected mainly for his promised "healthcare reform" how is yours?

His main accomplishment: NAFTA

engineers of those buildings took that into account during their engineering plans!!

The buildings where engineered to withstand the impact of a large airplane due to concerns about an accident that happened years earlier when a US military plane (B-52 I think) slammed into the Empire state building. They did not account for a jet propelled plane of that size and velocity hitting the buildings.

help save our citizens rotting in the streets of New Orleans after Katrina

What about the 'victims' responsibility?
- I am over 3,000 miles away and I knew about the evacuation warnings 3 days earlier, it is hard to feel to sorry for the victims. I have even less sympathy after the victims began shooting at people who where trying to rescue them.

Also, 2ndamendsis is correct, the pres. is not supposed to use our military in civil matters, he is supposed to use the national guard......which he is using to fight a war overseas

Ok skid, I get what you're saying here. I will make sure each and every morsel passes the required governmental and politically correct facts so you don't have to work so hard at aiming your criticisms as such minute technicalities at every turn.

What you've just done by continually nitpicking, is that you've justified government incompetence (or it's being an accomplice) over the September 11, 2001 attacks.

I challenge you to show me an engineer from anywhere who will sit there and tell me it was the fire and impact from those planes hitting those towers which is what caused each successive floor to fall in a straight-downward fashion, and to tell me this with a straight face. I want to see the mathematics, characteristics of the steel and beams in those buildings and how that much heat could have built up in the building when the majority of the jet fuel and flames shot out the other side.

To be sure, there WERE some low-level fires in the buildings, but nothing near hot enough to weaken the SOLID CORE in the center of each building! After the buildings fell, nothing of the solid core was left standing, even further down toward the bottom of the buildings where no heat occurred at all. Heat and fire rises - it doesn't venture down the hall and make a sharp left down the North, South, East or West staircase going down.

Solid steel only disappears when it's been shredded, cut or shattered through sharp blasts.

Nevermind the automatic fire retardant systems in those buildings - federal regulations require such buildings to have a sprinkler system at the least or a Halon system at best. If they were operational, fires would be squelched. And if such systems DIDN'T work that day, who turned them off so that the flames could get so hot to drop solid steel and concrete buildings so fast that everything was pulverized?

The buildings were still far, far larger than the tiny imprints left in the sides of the buildings by the aircraft. Fire retardant systems in large buildings are generally designed by section so that if one level is disabled, the next higher and lower AUTOMOMOUS units will still function.

The points I'm trying to make here are that there are entirely too many loose ends which defy the laws of physics in this matter.

And the MAJOR point, aside from the minor one above, was that the attacks were offically said to have been perpetrated by illegally residing aliens who used fake ID systems to gain access. Our borders were "open" in 2001, and they are even MORE open with a complacent government thinking all that pours across our borders is safe and good - that they are all just simple people who want to come here for work.

Our borders and lack of national security were a portion of what happened then. And, our borders and lack of national security can only invite even BIGGER incident the next time.

THAT, my friend, was the major point I was trying to portray all along. Sorry I didn't make it any more clear than I did - I thought people would "get it"

Nothing wrong with correcting when it's due, and I accept it with open arms. But overly correcting minor items while skirting the main point one was trying to make is a slight waste of time.

So the buildings weren't designed to take a direct hit from a jet, but rather blade-driven aircraft. Let me ask you this... if you take a heavy object and swing it slowly against a tree trunk... will it do damage a little way into the tree trunk? Let us say a slower airplane hit the building and the whole mass of twisted and burning wreckage stopped travelling and burned in the middle of the building - that could get pretty hot and melt SOME things.

Now, if you take the same object, such as an axe, and you were to swing it so fast and so hard that it travels through the ENTIRE tree trunk (the trunk would have to be small to suit this communication here)... will the axe not fly through the trunk at a high rate of speed... slicing through every inch of that trunk and fly out the other side due to the sheer speed/momentum and pressure being applied?

Ask any firefighter who was there at Ground Zero that day. Any one of them will tell you they were shocked to find very little fire in those buildings!!! I guarantee it. They went up to higher levels in an attempt to evacuate people and some even were recorded as saying they heard (and felt) sharp explosions occuring just before things went horribly silent. Excuse me? Explosions?? If there were no fire, where did THEY come from?

What is the FIRST thing firefighters will do if they arrive at a burning building that has natural gas lines or propane hookups? As a FORMER volunteer firefighter myself, I will answer it here to save you a small amount of time - they go to shut off the gas supply to the burning structure to prevent further catastrophe! Why would firefighters neglect something like that on a more grand scale of things? If they did their job correctly, it couldn't have been airplane fire OR gas fires causing those explosions then - it had to be something else. And those explosions are what were responsible for silencing the firefighters inside those buildings and which also caused them to collapse straight down upon themselves mimicking a very nice and controlled demolition as I've seen countless times before. It was so perfect and "neat" in appearance as a matter of fact, that I know in my own mind that couldn't have just happened all by itself now, would you think?

I could go on and on and... on over this, yet people just won't seem to "get it". While it is ok to question everything you hear (I expect some of this, as it's healthy) one CAN come to the point where just about everything can be explained away whether true or not.

What is coming from the mouths of so many people who describe the events that day are as varied as the colors of sweetened rice cereal. So all most of us can do is weigh things through logical reasoning. When this is all many of us are left to enjoy, it cannot always be stated as FACT - only logically and well thought-out reasoning. Heck, within the first few days after the events of 9/11 the government even had the majority of the steel fragments shipped off to foreign nations to have it "recycled" before a full investigation could be done on the wreckage! Tell me... what could residues left on the steel prove that could be so detrimental? Can you explain that to me please? I'm a little lost on why there was such a mad rush to export all that steel BEFORE the investigations could be complete.

But, there again, we are getting away from the point I had so desperately hoped to get across with the least amount of typing, but I was forced to respond to you here.

At least give it a little thought and rational logic and you'll also see all the loose ends which remain even today. Then, apply the logical conclusion to todays borders and take note that not only have things NOT changed at our borders, but rather worsened!

Regards!!

Kurt

Sometime around 1970-72 a Soviet Tu-95 Bear Bomber penitrated US Air Space, it flew over long Island and made it over New York before it was stopped and forced to turn around. Fact is US Air Defence time Reaction has never been good and poor at best

Thank you, Reciprocity, for bringing that to my attention. I was born in 1968, so I was only two years old when that event occurred. And I've never read about that in history books - I rely on others to make mention of things which didn't seem to make it into my studies.

Sounds to me like a LOT of work needs to be done with our aeronautical defenses and any necessary response times. None of this is very impressive regardless whether it happened in the 1970's or 2001 or even today, for that matter

Guess being a grunt on the ground hasn't done much for my undersanding of our aeronautical defense system. I do know when the OH-58's were called in to "paint" a target and the Apaches came and obliterated things - they appeared to me to be quite swift, cunning and - most importantly - deadly. The story is totally different in CONUS however, and that literally scares the daylights out of me. "Over there" we depended on our bretheren of the skies to provide cover, as our "eyes", and to scout the entire theatre of operations so we could know (as best as possible) where the threats were.

We really do need similar defensed here, but then again even if we did - I'm sure they would be put to administrative back-line tasks such as that going into our border lately.

Depressing. And absolutely absurd beyond any doubt.

Ok skid, I get what you're saying here.

Sorry!
I was not trying to get you worked up...remember I voted for you.
I understood your original point loud and clear and agree with you.

- I asked who said they shot the plane down out of curiosity.
not to dispute your statement.

And I was only pointing out that the buildings engineers did design them to withstand an airplane impact, not a larger faster jet.
In fact because of the Empire state accident:
- They where the first tall buildings intentionally designed for this.
- Modern air traffic control was instituted.

This was not intended to discredit your statement, if anything the facts from the Empire accident support it.
July 28, 1945
B-25 Bomber (it was not a B-52)
Hit the 78th Floor at 300 miles per hour.
The structure of the building was not severely damaged.
Fourteen people died and $1 million damage

The plane plunged through the 34th Street side of the building wreaking havoc. The major portion of the wreckage penetrated the 78th floor. An engine hurtled down an elevator shaft igniting a furious fire in the basement. Parts of the motor and landing gear tore through the entire building landing on top of a 13-story ediface across the street and igniting a second conflagration.

1945 picture

if such systems DIDN'T work that day, who turned them off

- There where about 3 - 20" - 36" underground pipes supplying fire water to the buildings. (12' or more underground)

Note: This is the official explanation for your question, personally I do not buy it.

"A section of a wing fell and severed one of the lines, debris falling from the building crushed or severed the others"

- I think that would have caused a little flooding.

Check out this 9/11 video. You will be shocked. After watching, I don't know what the hell to believe.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ose+change

Exactly. After the first plane hit he should have been hustled out of there immediately. He sat there for how long? Nobody questioned it at the time because the country was in shock. Fishy doesn't even begin to describe it.

There is only one rational explanation for this.