Thread: Al Hoffman Jr. a RINO donor, to support attack on 2nd Amendment

Originally Posted by johnwk

The irrefutable fact is, our Second Amendment is not about "sport" as you suggest. It's about the people being well armed in order to protect themselves from an oppressive and immoral government.

IT SAYS "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,"! IT WAS CLEARLY NOT ABOUT HUNTING! BUT IT WAS NOT ABOUT ONE-MAN ARMIES EITHER!

jtdc, in the Constitution, there is a difference between a citizen and a natural born citizen, but apparently you aren't familiar with the issue and I don't want to go into it further at this time.

If you support proper school door security to keep bad and unauthorized people out of the school during class-time and have some armed personnel in the school to deal with them should they get in, then in my opinion, that solves the issue of "prevention" to the degree it can be.

So I'm not sure why we're having this discussion about gun control and the Constitution.

Originally Posted by jtdc

IT SAYS "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,"! IT WAS CLEARLY NOT ABOUT HUNTING! BUT IT WAS NOT ABOUT ONE-MAN ARMIES EITHER!

It also says, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." The founders knew all about the importance of guns, arms and weapons. There were people who were denied the right to have guns, arms and weapons when our country was founded, they called them "slaves."

Originally Posted by Judy

jtdc, in the Constitution, there is a difference between a citizen and a natural born citizen, but apparently you aren't familiar with the issue and I don't want to go into it further at this time.

Of course. It is a difference with little significance.

Originally Posted by Judy

If you support proper school door security to keep bad and unauthorized people out of the school during class-time and have some armed personnel in the school to deal with them should they get in, then in my opinion, that solves the issue of "prevention" to the degree it can be.

There was an armed guard on the campus. But, as you pointed out, he can't be everywhere at once!

As for the security door, airports have pretty tight security, but now and then someone jumps a fence and they don't see it. This school is 40 acres. You'd need the Border Patrol to keep the illegals from getting in.

I realize that a locked front door can slow an assailant down, but as someone told me, many years ago, a lock is to keep honest people honest. It is not very effective at keeping a criminal out.

Originally Posted by Judy

So I'm not sure why we're having this discussion about gun control and the Constitution.

John started the thread to complain about a Florida Republican donor that threatened to stop contributing unless politicians support a ban on assault weapons!

John started the thread to complain about a Florida Republican donor that threatened to stop contributing unless politicians support a ban on assault weapons!

LOL!! Yes, I know, I understand that, I meant why you and I were discussing gun control and the Constitution when it seems we agree on the solution to school shootings, 1) improve security of the school to keep predators out and 2) arm some personnel to take 'em out if they get in.

Originally Posted by Judy

It also says, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

For crying out loud! I have said, and you quoted it, there are words before those words that provide a condition: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,". That, to me, says you are supposed to be part of a militia to be availed of those rights.

You can't have an M-16 unless you are in the military. And you can't have one after you are out of the military. It is a tool with a specific purpose, killing humans! The AR-15 is similar!

Originally Posted by Judy

The founders knew all about the importance of guns, arms and weapons.

Yes, they were for war!

Originally Posted by Judy

There were people who were denied the right to have guns, arms and weapons when our country was founded, they called them "slaves."

So now we are all slaves?

You want no limits! Well then this is what you end up with, school shootings. We either scale up by turning schools into armed war camps or we fix what is causing this increase in violence.

This country was formed by war. Then it became civilized. then, as the west developed, it became uncivilized again. But with laws increasing restriction on guns, it became civilized again. We seem to be going downhill once again!

Originally Posted by Judy

LOL!! Yes, I know, I understand that, I meant why you and I were discussing gun control and the Constitution when it seems we agree on the solution to school shootings,

I don't know! Nothing else to talk about?

Originally Posted by jtdc

IT SAYS "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,"! IT WAS CLEARLY NOT ABOUT HUNTING! BUT IT WAS NOT ABOUT ONE-MAN ARMIES EITHER!

I'm happy to see you finally agree. The right to keep and bear arms is about the people being well armed in order to protect themselves from an oppressive and immoral government.


JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

I'm happy to see you finally agree. The right to keep and bear arms is about the people being well armed in order to protect themselves from an oppressive and immoral government.

I'm not sure what you think we agree on. I want military style weapons limited to military (and limited police) use. That means John Q Citizen cannot carry, or even own, an AR-15 and the like. Such weapon are primarily, like the M-16, for killing people. They are not the appropriate tool for hunting. And, as I said, if we get to the point that you need a military arsenal to defend against your government, this country will already be lost.

We need to address the cause of this trend toward violence. As you have noted, that is born of violent games, movies and the like. We will have to take freedom away from movie makers, game vendors and the like, to protect our future, our children. Are you willing to allow the surrender of some freedom for that end?

I am for the right to keep an bear arms. But not unlimited arms, which seems to be what you advocate.

Today I see discussions about the suggestion yesterday, in the Trump meeting, that teachers should be armed. One of the suggestions was that qualified teachers who carry would get a $1000 bonus. Someone complained about how much extra money that would cost tax payers. The stupidity is how much more would it cost to hire armed guards?

A teacher, even a janitor with a concealed weapon, would not have a negative psychological impact on students as would seeing armed guards everywhere on campus.