Thread: FairTax and Trade

Originally Posted by johnwk

Judy, you never answered the question: by what constitutional provision has Congress authority to directly tax [without apportioning the tax] the sale of property which Mary and Joe have in their own labor?


JWK

What makes their labor special? Labor is involved in the sale of all new goods and services. Why are they seeking special treatment? I don't understand why they would prefer to pay income tax under the present system instead of collect FairTax and earn a fee for doing so. But whatever ..... not my problem. I'll have to fill out FairTax sales reports that I don't have to do now under our state sales tax, but I don't mind. Well worth it to be rid of the income tax system we now have and give our country the FairTax. Plus you make money doing the reports, so you're not going to get any sympathy from me on this. Not one whit.

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Judy, we already went over this. The name of a tax is irrelevant. I wrote to you:

I’m beginning to understand the mental block you have in judging the merits of a tax. You fail to identify the characteristics of the tax and how it operates on individuals, and focus only on the name of a tax. Repealing the Corporate Excise of 1909 and replacing it with the corporate income tax in 1913 does nothing to change the characteristics of the tax. In each case the tax is calculated from profits, gains and other incomes and the name of the tax is irrelevant in its operation. Is this really that difficult for you to understand?

Your above assertion, that the “FairTax repeals the federal corporate income tax and all other federal income based taxes that are part of the Internal Revenue Act of 1986” is meaningless and an intentional attempt to delude if the characteristics of an income based tax are still available to Congress under the alleged “FairTax”, which is the case.

Additionally, the alleged “FairTax”, when applied to ordinary working people, such as Mary and Joe Sixpack who sell the property each has in their own labor to finance their economic needs, turns out to directly tax an inalienable right of mankind in addition to operating as an income based tax, as the tax to be paid is calculated from money received from the sale of their labor.

Our founders fully understood the notoriously oppressive nature of direct taxation, and that is why they specifically commanded in our Constitution that “No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.” Our Founders intended that if direct taxation were ever to be used, and levied directly upon individuals by our federal government, as the alleged “FairTax” does, it would turn out to be an equal per capita tax and every tax payer would pay an equal amount of tax, which is not the case under the alleged fairtax.


The fact is, Judy, the alleged fairtax does not end an income based tax for Mary and Joe Sixpack as outlined above. I thought you wanted to end income based taxes.


JWK

Let me put it this way, everything the FairTax ends, starts and continues, I support. Are you clear now?

So, you support creating two new taxes, two new tax collecting agencies, in addition to keeping income based taxes and ignoring that provision in our Constitution that commands all direct taxes are to be apportioned.

Is that what you support, Judy?


JWK


“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

Yes, John, that is what I support.

I support the SS and Medicare FairTax of 8.09%
I support the General Revenue FairTax of 14.91%
I support the FairTax Sales Tax Bureau to Collect the FairTax
I support the Excise Tax Bureau to Collect Excise Tax because we're eliminating the IRS that collects it now.
I support the FairTax while keeping the 16th Amendment or repealing the 16th Amendment.
I support continued ignoring of the apportionment of any tax to the States unless it's a split-shared tax like Medicaid outlined by law.

Are you clear ... NOW?!

I'm fascinated with your concern with what I support.

Originally Posted by Judy

Yes, John, that is what I support.

I support the SS and Medicare FairTax of 8.09%
I support the General Revenue FairTax of 14,91%
I support the FairTax Sales Tax Bureau to Collect the FairTax
I support the Excise Tax Bureau to Collect Excise Tax because we're eliminating the IRS that collects it now.
I support the FairTax while keeping the 16th Amendment or repealing the 16th Amendment
I support continued ignoring of the apportionment of any tax to the States unless it's a split-shared tax like Medicaid outlined by law.

Are you clear ... NOW?!

I'm fascinated with your concern with what I support.

So, you really do support enlarging the federal government's taxing powers and tightening it around the necks of the American people. That's what I thought when we first communicated in this forum many years ago. The only thing which has changed since that time is, now you admit your notoriously evil desires.


JWK

If we can make the majority of America’s families dependent upon a federal government check, [the alleged fair tax’s family consumption entitlement] we can then bribe them for their vote, keep ourselves in power and keep the remaining portion of America’s productive population enslaved to pay the bills ___Our Washington Establishment’s Marxist game plan, a plan to establish a federal plantation and redistribute the bread which America’s labor and businesses have produced.

The one joy from all these stupid dialogues, Johnwk, is that until the FairTax passes, Joe and Mary Sixpack Whiners will be paying 15.30% self-employment tax to Social Security Administration and at least 25% income tax on their "labor" to the IRS until it does.

Originally Posted by Judy

The one joy from all these stupid dialogues, Johnwk, is that until the FairTax passes, Joe and Mary Sixpack Whiners will be paying 15.30% self-employment tax to Social Security Administration and at least 25% income tax on their "labor" to the IRS until it does.

And that is why I support adopting the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment which, unlike the alleged fairtax, would end all income based taxes and begins with the following 32 words:

“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling their labor!

JWK


“…a national revenue must be obtained; but the system must be such a one, that, while it secures the object of revenue it shall not be oppressive to our constituents.”___ ___Madison, during the creation of our Nation’s first revenue raising Act

How does that plan help you and your wife?

Originally Posted by Judy

Yes, John, that is what I support.

I support the SS and Medicare FairTax of 8.09%
I support the General Revenue FairTax of 14,91%
I support the FairTax Sales Tax Bureau to Collect the FairTax
I support the Excise Tax Bureau to Collect Excise Tax because we're eliminating the IRS that collects it now.
I support the FairTax while keeping the 16th Amendment or repealing the 16th Amendment
I support continued ignoring of the apportionment of any tax to the States unless it's a split-shared tax like Medicaid outlined by law.

Are you clear ... NOW?!

I'm fascinated with your concern with what I support.

Wow, how can you actually support the unfair tax without insisting the 16th Amendment be repealed? John is right, you want to grow our government and give them the authority to tax the hell out of us!

Originally Posted by MW

Wow, how can you actually support the unfair tax without insisting the 16th Amendment be repealed? John is right, you want to grow our government and give them the authority to tax the hell out of us!

Well how else are you going to pay off that $22 trillion debt? Are you now lined up with the moochers wanting something for nothing? Geez.

Originally Posted by Judy

What makes their labor special? Labor is involved in the sale of all new goods and services.

And all tax is paid out of that income, regardless of what you call it!

Originally Posted by Judy

I'll have to fill out FairTax sales reports that I don't have to do now under our state sales tax, but I don't mind. Well worth it to be rid of the income tax system we now have and give our country the FairTax.

So you admit we would be trading one set of paperwork for another. You may not mind, but the majority aren't sold on it.