Thread: FairTax and Trade

Originally Posted by Judy

Well how else are you going to pay off that $22 trillion debt?

Cut back spending by Congress!

Originally Posted by Judy

Are you now lined up with the moochers wanting something for nothing? Geez.

You seem to want to create a whole country of moochers!

I thought Judy was winding down a few pages ago. But she seems to have gotten a second wind and is now recycling the first part of this thread!

Well, yeah, but just for necessities and it's paid for by the FairTax, no debt required.

Originally Posted by Judy

Well, yeah, but just for necessities and it's paid for by the FairTax, no debt required.

So the FairTax pays for your necessities and charges you 23% tax on them so it can pay you to buy them. And of course the retailer gets a handling fee which adds to the overall cost of the tax, so there is a loss!

If you have no income, the FairTax is a giveaway on the backs of those earning money above the "Family Consumption Allowance"

So you end up with "compounding" as the money you get from the "Family Consumption Allowance" is taxed when you buy a product which then pays for the "Family Consumption Allowance" which again is taxed when you use it!

No, the FairTax doesn't pay for our necessities or a "family consumption allowance". It just pays for the tax on necessities determined by the "family consumption allowance" Good Gawd Man, what kind of mind can distort something as simple as a sales tax exclusion for necessities. No it doesn't "compound" at all. The FairTax is charged at the final point of sale, one time, at the end of the line.

For example, the annual consumption allowance for an adult is $11,770 a year. The annual rebate is $2,707 or 23% of $11,770. It's paid monthly at 1/12 of $2,707 in the amount of $226 a month to pay the tax. If you have a child it's another $81 a month for a total of $305 a month to pay the tax.

Of course the retailer and the state are paid a fee for the service of collecting the tax, it's 1/4 of 1% each or 1/2% of FairTaxes collected and is included in the FairTax rate. Better them than 100,000 federal government employees at the IRS terrorizing people over their income taxes. The FairTax is very consumer and business friendly. You shop, you buy, you pay, you go home, end of story. If you sign up for the rebate, your first $11,770 of spending per adult and $4,160 of spending per child is tax free. The rebate doesn't pay for the $11,770 or $4,160 annual consumption allowance, it just pays for the FairTax charged on those sums of spending.

FairTax Expense of $305 - FairTax Rebate of $305 = Zero. That's how they exclude the tax on necessities. Very efficient and cost effective.

I think I'm beginning to understand why you never got one of your inventions to market by yourself. YOU NEED HELP!!!

Originally Posted by jtdc

And all tax is paid out of that income, regardless of what you call it!

So you admit we would be trading one set of paperwork for another. You may not mind, but the majority aren't sold on it.

Oh no, to both statements.

No individual has any paperwork at all.

No manufacturer has any paperwork at all.

No supplier has any paperwork at all.

No business to business transaction has any paperwork at all.

The only companies or entrepreneurs who have anything at all to do under the FairTax are Retailers, businesses who sell new products and services directly to consumers in the US.

There's about 6 million entities who will be filing very simple sales tax reports under the FairTax versus over 200 million filing complex returns under the income tax.

The Retailers provide 1 piece of information from their business, gross sales to consumers, they do 2 calculations, 23% which is the FairTax they collected, less their 1/4 of 1% fee, which they deduct from the FairTax they collected. That's it. 4 numbers. Two lines on their state sales tax form in 45 states and on a FairTax form if their state doesn't have a sales tax. You write out a check and mail it in. They'll probably set up on-line reporting and payments.

It will easier and more fun sending in the FairTax (OPM) than paying their utility bill (their own money).

The Sales Tax Bureau will report monthly to the public how much was collected, everyone can check it monthly like they check the unemployment rate. And maybe, just maybe, someone can get the Treasury Department to also report how much the government spent that month, so we can check revenue against expenses of our government on a monthly basis just like any good responsible business and enterprise does.

It will be fabulous! It will put Congress under enormous pressure to produce good numbers, to get their affairs in order so we're in the black (surplus) instead of in the red (deficits) each month. There's just so many more advantages to the FairTax than people like you and your cohort FairTax-Haters can comprehend.

It's not your faults, you're just victims of greater arrogance than education. It happens.

Originally Posted by jtdc

And all tax is paid out of that income, regardless of what you call it!

So you admit we would be trading one set of paperwork for another. You may not mind, but the majority aren't sold on it.

It's not only one set of paperwork for another. Under the alleged fairtax ordinary working people who sell the property each has in their own labor must file fairtax returns twelve freaken times a year, under a penalty of perjury. And that doesn't even include any excise taxes imposed upon them which are calculated from profits, gains and other incomes which also require additional paper work.


The very intention of the alleged fairtax is to create two new taxes, two new tax collecting agencies, keep alive Congress' power to lay and collect income based taxes while tightening the iron fist of our federal government around the necks of the American people and their businesses.


JWK

Originally Posted by Judy

Oh no, to both statements.

No individual has any paperwork at all.

Why are you making stuff up again, Judy? Mary and Joe Sixpack, who need to work on weekends to earn addition money to meet their economic needs are in fact required to file fairtax returns twelve times a year.

Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a pluming company as a full-time job, also provides the same plumbing service on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash. Both are required to file fairtax returns!


`SEC. 501. MONTHLY REPORTS AND PAYMENTS.
`(a) Tax Reports and Filing Dates-
`(1) IN GENERAL- On or before the 15th day of each month, each person who is--
`(A) liable to collect and remit the tax imposed by this subtitle by reason of section 103(a), or



SEC. 103. RULES RELATING TO COLLECTION AND REMITTANCE OF TAX.

`(a) Liability for Collection and Remittance of the Tax- Except as provided otherwise by this section, any tax imposed by this subtitle shall be collected and remitted by the seller of taxable property or services, and that would be Mary and Joe Sixpack as I described above

Judy, why do you constantly make stuff up about the alleged fairtax?

JWK

Originally Posted by jtdc

If you have no income, the FairTax is a giveaway on the backs of those earning money above the "Family Consumption Allowance"

You nailed it! It's a massive redistribution of wealth.


The fact is, this would be a massive redistribution program under which those who are not working and are already on the public dole would receive a monthly bonus government check. Heck, even gangsters who steal other people’s property, drug dealers and those not gainfully employed are eligible to received the monthly government bonus check which would be taxed away from the productive and employed members of society!


The clowns behind the alleged fairtax are even proud to admit it's a progressive idea!

"The FairTax provides a progressive program called a prebate. This gives every legal resident household an “advance refund” at the beginning of each month so that purchases made up to the poverty level are tax-free. The prebate prevents an unfair burden on low-income families."


JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

Why are you making stuff up again, Judy? Mary and Joe Sixpack, who need to work on weekends to earn addition money to meet their economic needs are in fact required to file fairtax returns twelve times a year.

Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a pluming company as a full-time job, also provides the same plumbing service on his own time to people living in his community to raise extra cash. Both are required to file fairtax returns!


`SEC. 501. MONTHLY REPORTS AND PAYMENTS.
`(a) Tax Reports and Filing Dates-
`(1) IN GENERAL- On or before the 15th day of each month, each person who is--
`(A) liable to collect and remit the tax imposed by this subtitle by reason of section 103(a), or



SEC. 103. RULES RELATING TO COLLECTION AND REMITTANCE OF TAX.

`(a) Liability for Collection and Remittance of the Tax- Except as provided otherwise by this section, any tax imposed by this subtitle shall be collected and remitted by the seller of taxable property or services, and that would be Mary and Joe Sixpack as I described above

Judy, why do you constantly make stuff up about the alleged fairtax?

JWK

Yes, that is right, they are retail entities when they do that. A retail entity can be an individual, but they are not required to file because they are an individual like one is required to file as an individual under the individual income tax code, they are filing FairTax reports because they collect FairTax as a retail entity serving consumers and they both are paid a nice fee for their service.

Joe goes home every month with all his paychecks from work, free from federal income tax, no withholding tax for personal income tax or payroll tax has been withheld, no employer had to file a monthly withholding report on him, so everyone wins. Joe and Mary earn a collection fee from the FairTax, they pay no personal income tax or payroll tax, and if they choose to do so, they can sign up for the Rebate and enjoy tax free spending up to the family consumption allowance. Joe and Mary Sixpack come out very well on the FairTax, it's worth thousands of dollars of disposable expendable income to them every year.

But if they don't want to do that for some untold reason, Mary can get jobs with cleaning and day care services and then she isn't responsible for FairTax reports, and Joe can work extra hours with his employer. Plumbers serve round the clock so there should be no shortage of over-time opportunities on the weekends for Joe to pick up "extra cash". Its' their choice.

Originally Posted by johnwk

You nailed it! It's a massive redistribution of wealth.


The fact is, this would be a massive redistribution program under which those who are not working and are already on the public dole would receive a monthly bonus government check. Heck, even gangsters who steal other people’s property, drug dealers and those not gainfully employed are eligible to received the monthly government bonus check which would be taxed away from the productive and employed members of society!


The clowns behind the alleged fairtax are even proud to admit it's a progressive idea!

"The FairTax provides a progressive program called a prebate. This gives every legal resident household an “advance refund” at the beginning of each month so that purchases made up to the poverty level are tax-free. The prebate prevents an unfair burden on low-income families."


JWK

LOL!! One minute you're howling quotes from Alexander Hamilton and other Federalist Papers contirubutors on the evil of taxing "necessities of life" and the "fruits of one's labor", and the next you're calling them "clowns" and accusing them of being "progressive" as if that's a bad word. Progressives are Republicans who moved our country forward, freed the slaves, established civil rights, busted the monopolies, protected workers, and protected our trade to protect our businesses and manufacturers to improve our standard of living in the US.

And yes, the FairTax does redistribute wealth. It redistributes wealth from foreign producers back to American manufacturers, from illegal aliens back to American Workers, and from those who didn't earn it, back to those who did.

It's fabulous!!!! FairTax solves so many problems. It should be passed post haste.