Thread: FairTax and Trade

Johnwk wrote:

Under the alleged fairtax, a monthly check is sent to every qualified household which may be used by the household as it pleases. The necessities of life are not exempt from the alleged "fairtax". By contrast, our founders intended that the necessities of life would not be taxed.

Under the FairTax, the Rebate ensures the "necessities of life" are not taxed if you're a US citizen or a legal resident, have a valid Social Security number, and want to sign up for the Rebate. That's the whole purpose and point of the FairTax Rebate. They even send out the Rebate in advance so you have the cash in hand to pay your FairTaxes on your "necessities of life" as every consumer eligible for the Rebate chooses. Americans are in charge of their own lives, their federal tax payments, and their government under the FairTax, the way it should be.

The FairTax eliminates the burden of reporting income, the invasion of disclosing all your personal life to the government, the cost of compliance, the cost of returns, the risks of making mistakes, the cost of the mandated tax itself, the reduction in earnings, the loss to expendable income siphoned off the top and sucked into the government before it even gets to work and multiply in our economy, the enormous cost to businesses, the double taxation, the mandates of being forced by the government to pay tax when they want you to pay it, sometimes even when you don't have it to pay, it's called phantom income, income on paper that's taxable but no cash to write a check on to pay it. The income tax is evil. The FairTax is not. The FairTax is as perfect a tax plan as I've ever seen, absolutely brilliant, but there may be things that people want to change before it passes Congress, and I'll probably have no problem with those, but I wouldn't mess too much with it, because it solves or helps to solve all types of problems including trade and immigration issues.

I started this thread about the FairTax and Trade because it would solve so many of our trade deficit issues without any squabbles or confrontations with foreign governments over the deficits. They might still squabble about unfair tariffs and intellectual property theft, dumping and currency manipulation, but meanwhile, our manufacturers would be roaring back home, building new plants and expanding existing ones, with the most competitively priced products on the world market and our trade deficits would disappear very quickly in due course without conflicts, with or without a Rebate. The Rebate is irrelevant to the issue of FairTax and Trade. The Rebate is relevant to the issue of the FairTax and Illegal Immigration. I'll start a thread on that one later next week after the Summit.

Originally Posted by Judy

Sigh. The FairTax has nothing to do with welfare programs. All the welfare programs we have remain unchanged by the FairTax.

If it doesn't have anything to do with them, how can they function? Generally, qualifications for such programs are bases in documented income. Since the FairTax does away with income tax, their is nothing to use for qualification.

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax Rebate has nothing to do with food stamps or WIC or TANF or Medicaid or free school lunch or any other poverty program.

Except that qualification for those programs is based on income!

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax Rebate just exempts a certain amount of eligible consumer spending from the FairTax for the same reason we have Standard, Personal and Dependent Deductions to exempt a certain amount of income from the income tax for "necessities of life".

How is that documented.

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax Rebate is actually much more fair, because not everyone earns, but everyone spends.

That money has to come from somewhere!

Originally Posted by Judy

Under the present income tax system, you pay twice, you pay at the office when they withhold income tax from your paychecks or when you send in quarterly estimated income tax as a business

What? Tax is withheld from employee's pay, but quarterly that is on those not working for an employer. There is NO DUPLICATION THERE!

Originally Posted by Judy

and then you pay again when you spend your money on goods and services, because all prices already include every dime of income tax paid by every individual and business in the country to the federal government.

But you said that business taxes are separate and would not be affected by the FairTax. So any duplication now would still be there with the FairTax!

Originally Posted by Judy

Paying twice for the same thing under the present evil income tax system .... well, that's not only stupid, that is actually inflationary.

But that is false. We have embedded taxes in everything we buy. We are actually paying portions of the total tax via different methods. It is not duplication but division!

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax corrects that double taxation. Under the FairTax, consumers only pay when they choose to buy or spend on new goods and services, they only pay once at the final point of retail sale, not twice as they do now once at the office and again at the store

Baloney! We pay at the office or via quarterly tax, but that's all! what we buy at the market has several taxes built in, and that will remain, even with the so-called "FairTax"! Some states have Sales tax added. That will remain! So these claims are an attempt to cover for the false information you have given.

Originally Posted by Judy

and if they want to sign up for it, they can sign up for the Rebate to get some of it back so they aren't paying FairTax on "necessities of life".

State Sales tax already have exemptions for "Necessities of life". If the FairTax follows that track, the Necessities of life will be exempted from the FairTax, so there would be no reason for a rebated for a tax to be collected!

Originally Posted by Judy

From what I've seen so far, things are sticking in your craw for completely irrational and uninformed reasons.

From what I've seen so far, you drank the Kool-aid and are blind to the real problems of the tax system your committed to.

Originally Posted by johnwk

Well, now you have decided to post insults and a misrepresentation of my views rather than discuss the consequences of the family consumption allowance, one of which is, it creates a massive voting block dependent upon government for a monthly subsistence check.

Now you've done it Judy. Now you are in John's dungeon where I have been for ages!

Originally Posted by jtdc

If it doesn't have anything to do with them, how can they function? Generally, qualifications for such programs are bases in documented income. Since the FairTax does away with income tax, their is nothing to use for qualification.

Except that qualification for those programs is based on income!

How is that documented.

That money has to come from somewhere!

What? Tax is withheld from employee's pay, but quarterly that is on those not working for an employer. There is NO DUPLICATION THERE!

But you said that business taxes are separate and would not be affected by the FairTax. So any duplication now would still be there with the FairTax!

But that is false. We have embedded taxes in everything we buy. We are actually paying portions of the total tax via different methods. It is not duplication but division!

Baloney! We pay at the office or via quarterly tax, but that's all! what we buy at the market has several taxes built in, and that will remain, even with the so-called "FairTax"! Some states have Sales tax added. That will remain! So these claims are an attempt to cover for the false information you have given.

State Sales tax already have exemptions for "Necessities of life". If the FairTax follows that track, the Necessities of life will be exempted from the FairTax, so there would be no reason for a rebated for a tax to be collected!

From what I've seen so far, you drank the Kool-aid and are blind to the real problems of the tax system your committed to.

Income tax returns aren't used to verify income for welfare, not even food stamps. Tax returns are a year old by the time they're filed and only apply to the previous year, not the present when you apply for welfare. Maybe you're confusing mortgage applications that usually ask for income tax returns, but they don't ask for those to verify income, they ask for them to verify tax compliance so the IRS won't steal the house after they put a mortgage on it for unpaid taxes.

There are very few "embedded" federal taxes outside of federal income tax. Some tariffs, imposts and duties, and a few excise taxes, all very small potatoes in the scheme of federal revenues.

We're not talking about state, municipal or county taxes. The federal government has no finger in those pies, but that's such the typical Anti-FairTax Lobby argument, calling people liars when they're talking about federal taxes and you want to chat about state and local taxes, as if Americans are so stupid they don't know the difference. Americans know the difference between federal income tax, gas tax and state and local taxes. In FACT, under the FairTax, it will all be on the same receipt when they make a purchase, federal, state and local sales tax, all broken down for them every time they buy something.

I can see you're in love with your evil federal income tax. You've lived blind-folded on that DemoQuack biotch for so long you're hooked on it harder than a Heroin Addict on Oxy. That's makes you part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Judy wrote (excerpt):

I'll start a thread on that one later next week after the Summit.

Please feel free to spare us another one of these senseless unfair tax threads. The plan is a loser now and has been since its inception almost two decades ago.

Originally Posted by Judy

Under the alleged fairtax, a monthly check is sent to every qualified household which may be used by the household as it pleases. The necessities of life are not exempt from the alleged "fairtax". By contrast, our founders intended that the necessities of life would not be taxed.

Under the FairTax, the Rebate ensures the "necessities of life" are not taxed if you're a US citizen or a legal resident, have a valid Social Security number, and want to sign up for the Rebate.

Judy,

What you say above is not true. You are misrepresenting the alleged "fairtax".


Under the alleged "fairtax", a 23 percent tax is added to the cost of food, clothing, medical needs, etc., and everyone who purchases these products when they go to the store pay the tax, and that includes poor working people. To alleviate the devastating increase in the cost of the necessities of life for poor working people, which the alleged fairtax adds to these products, qualified families are entitled to a monthly government check which can be used to pay the outrageous 23 percent tax on a rationed supply of necessities. This of course not only creates a new entitlement, but also makes poor working folks dependent upon government for a monthly check which can be used to pay the outrageous 23 percent tax on a rationed supply of necessities.


Under our Constitution's original tax plan, the necessities of life were not intended to be taxed, nor was there any monthly government check sent to the poor to be used to purchase the necessities of life.

Tell us, Judy, under the alleged fairtax and its family consumption entitlement, how many more “poor working people” would have a vested interest in voting for progressives, socialists and communists during election time who would promise to work to increase the family consumption entitlement? Is this not how Fifth Column members of Congress stay in power in our nation’s poorest voting districts ____ by offering their constituency free government cheese?


Tell us Judy, why are you so eager to create another entitlement, which would help our Fifth Column members in Congress to remain in power by promising our nation’s poor during each election time to alter the fairtax and enlarge the family consumption entitlement?


JWK



There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country.

Johnwk wrote:

Under the alleged "fairtax", a 23 percent tax is added to the cost of food, clothing, medical needs, etc., and everyone who purchases these products when they go to the store pay the tax, and that includes poor working people. To alleviate the devastating increase in the cost of the necessities of life for poor working people, which the alleged fairtax adds to these products, qualified families are entitled to a monthly government check which can be used to pay the outrageous 23 percent tax on a rationed supply of necessities. This of course not only creates a new entitlement, but also makes poor working folks dependent upon government for a monthly check which can be used to pay the outrageous 23 percent tax on a rationed supply of necessities.

Yes, people with the Rebate have the money in hand to pay the FairTax which means they pay no FairTax on their purchases up to the amount of the exemption which is the same for everyone who signs up for it. Sorry Johnwk, but I have no problem at all with this feature of the FairTax. None whatsoever.

Originally Posted by MW

Judy wrote (excerpt):



Please feel free to spare us another one of these senseless unfair tax threads. The plan is a loser now and has been since its inception almost two decades ago.

That is so rude and ignorant.

Originally Posted by Judy

That is so rude and ignorant.

I said please.

MW, you offend a lot of Republicans with your rude attacks on me and the FairTax. Personally, I don't think that's wise.