Thread: Income tax...legal or not...

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Been over to Dirty Uncle Sam. Emailed is it Don(?) over there. Can't remember right off, but this ties into in more depth what he has going on over there. I need to forward this to him, so he may also have a better understanding of what he is researching.

But what it boils down to is that we've been in a perpetual pseudo state of martial law and emergency for 76 years, and off and on to degrees since 1861.

It is an interesting position to be in for a people who are a peace loving people, with no malice toward others, as we are supposed to be touted as.

If you followed the link to "Undermining the Constitution, it was written when there were only 48 states in the union, so it has been known for some time, but how many are taught this in school? If not, why? This is what Adams warned of with vain and designing men worming their way into public office, and the nation being ever more in need of her patriots.

Glad you liked the post! Hope it helps!

Burce Ray is the site owner. He loves to talk to anyone that has a grasp of all this. I am sure you would enjoy getting to know him. He may be running for office. If you have a blog or anything you have written...he will post it on his site. He is a really good guy. Thanks

So happy to see you having fun with dirtyunclesam.com. Cool...

Yes, Bruce is his name. A real good guy. Lots of info over there on the Reconstruction too. That PDF that runs through the history of the 14th Amendment and how it was ramrodded through with the assistance of the Federal Troops occupying the southern state legislatures, and the northern states changing their vote status, is just mind boggling. I haven't looked over there to see if he has it, but there is a letter from the Governor of North Carolina, surrenderring the state legislature to the Congress under duress of military occupation, after 2 years of peace and the end of hostilities.

And also, that the states were not allowed to reconvene until they adopted a State Constitution that Congress approved of? That has got to be preposterous. One of the most preposterous acts of Congress in the history of these united States.

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Yes, Bruce is his name. A real good guy. Lots of info over there on the Reconstruction too. That PDF that runs through the history of the 14th Amendment and how it was ramrodded through with the assistance of the Federal Troops occupying the southern state legislatures, and the northern states changing their vote status, is just mind boggling. I haven't looked over there to see if he has it, but there is a letter from the Governor of North Carolina, surrenderring the state legislature to the Congress under duress of military occupation, after 2 years of peace and the end of hostilities.

And also, that the states were not allowed to reconvene until they adopted a State Constitution that Congress approved of? That has got to be preposterous. One of the most preposterous acts of Congress in the history of these united States.

You are a sharp guy and I enjoy your posts. Ask him your questions. And if you have things to add he will be happy. He is always working on the site. If you don't have his e mail I can hook you up. Thanks. My thing is the Feds! Go Ron Paul HR 1207 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1207

That is also one of the topics I have studied for years now. If oyu want, you can watch these vids:

The Money Masters
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 936&hl=en#

Fiat Empire: I know the producer / filmaker for this one personally.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9002339531

Original Intent by the same filmaker as Fiat Empire
http://www.youtube.com/user/OriginalInt ... G21RJm6h0A

This is a good read:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~becraft/mcfadden.html

Good quotes on the Fed:
http://www.barefootsworld.net/banking-fed-quotes.html

The Creature From Jekyll Island
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 371055528#

And I'm sure you're aware of America Freedom to Fascism.

I can't remember exactly how I figured out on my own that bad debt is what creates the money. I called it "black money" because it did not turn green until it became a debt owed by the people. This is still a very very hard pill for most everyone to swallow. It is still a very long way from general knowledge and acceptance. Today it takes 10% to make 90% of the money and only 2 or 3% of our money is in print...the rest is in computers.

For many years this drove me crazy. I could see it but did not understand it. Talking about it only got me into trouble because it was to crazy a theory for anyone that I knew to accept. Slowly the pieces started to fall into place as I found others on the same track and the information age supported my theory. And as you have posted many great vids on this I know you understand.



HOWEVER:



Give this statements as true...what do we do if this debt as money money as debt cycle is broken? It is very sad to think that this slight of hand deception may in fact be at the heart of all our great "wealth" (defined) and power (defined).

Can it be that simply put...corruption is what made us great? And if this is simply a "banking system" can it even be called corruption? Or was it a good system that has become corrupt?

And if so...what do we do now?

Is this a matter of national security? Is it UN American to attempt to "fix" the gift horse? Is Ron Paul truly a traitor and so am I and anyone else that wants to change this system? What happens if we stop borrowing on the people and all that is considered America and bring back the gold standard there by putting a stop to our "creative" finacing that is responcable for our abiltity to buy a home and a car?

I am making the full circle. And I am still as confused as ever...even though so much has been clarified. Many questions still remain...

Is an "end the Feds" mentality really an "end America" theory?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qsJjTae ... re=related

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

I can't remember exactly how I figured out on my own that bad debt is what creates the money. I called it "black money" because it did not turn green until it became a debt owed by the people. This is still a very very hard pill for most everyone to swallow. It is still a very long way from general knowledge and acceptance. Today it takes 10% to make 90% of the money and only 2 or 3% of our money is in print...the rest is in computers.

For many years this drove me crazy. I could see it but did not understand it. Talking about it only got me into trouble because it was to crazy a theory for anyone that I knew to accept. Slowly the pieces started to fall into place as I found others on the same track and the information age supported my theory. And as you have posted many great vids on this I know you understand.



HOWEVER:



Give this statements as true...what do we do if this debt as money money as debt cycle is broken? It is very sad to think that this slight of hand deception may in fact be at the heart of all our great "wealth" (defined) and power (defined).

Can it be that simply put...corruption is what made us great? And if this is simply a "banking system" can it even be called corruption? Or was it a good system that has become corrupt?

And if so...what do we do now?

Is this a matter of national security? Is it UN American to attempt to "fix" the gift horse? Is Ron Paul truly a traitor and so am I and anyone else that wants to change this system? What happens if we stop borrowing on the people and all that is considered America and bring back the gold standard there by putting a stop to our "creative" finacing that is responcable for our abiltity to buy a home and a car?

I am making the full circle. And I am still as confused as ever...even though so much has been clarified. Many questions still remain...

Is an "end the Feds" mentality really an "end America" theory?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qsJjTae ... re=related

No, you are not a traitor for wanting to change the existing Federal Reserve System. Not at all. There are huge problems with the way this entity was created and how it operates, largely due to the type of person who sits on the Federal Reserve Board as well as the Boards of the individual Federal Reserve Banks.

But, just like changing the way federal taxes are collected, you have to have a plan to replace the function. We've been stumped for decades with how to get rid of the federal income tax and replace it with a better system. We always knew that system would be a national sales tax, however, there was a hitch to it, and that is the regressive nature of the tax which ironically matters because of the enormous numbers of really poor people in our country. So outside of exemptions for this and that which still doesn't solve the regression issue, reform stalled. Until of course, the FairTax came along, because these brilliant people came up with the perfect solution to that issue with their Rebate.

The same is true with the Federal Reserve and making changes to that system just as it is with Social Security and MediCare. We need to begin with an audit of the Federal Reserve, to know what they're doing first of all, and then based on that information, which I believe is going to be a very big and disappointing shocker for the American People, then we have to develop a better plan. The complaints are clear and the concern very real, but so far no one has an actual plan to replace it.

Just like with the effort to privatize social security, the plan to let younger workers set aside 4% of their social security payments with government-mandated "funds" was of course totally unacceptable. You might as well build a bonfire and just toss those dollars into it, because they won't grow and by the time these workers need their retirement, the monies in all probability won't be there.

But, with the FairTax, the situation changes dramatically, because workers no longer put a portion of their wages into Social Security, consumers underwrite it when they purchase new products and services. Under the FairTax, wages and earnings are freed up and workers have the freedom to invest in whatever they're comfortable with to grow their own retirement plan.

Sure they'll be contributing to the Social Security and MediCare Trust Funds when they spend because it's ear-marked funds from the FairTax, but now they're free to choose and decide for themselves how much they spend, save and invest. They'll still be eligible for the same benefits they are now, but I truly believe that by the time young workers get to 65 years of age, the SS funds will be such a small part of their total income compared to the retirement funds they've established for themselves, that some real change could come with the way people want to handle Social Security at that time.

They may want to keep it which is fine, it works great, and under the FairTax, it will be well-funded. Or they may say, you know, it was a good idea when it was needed, but today, most people don't need it, and our economy would fair better off to reduce the rate and fund it only for low income workers, dispense with it altogether or replace it with something entirely different and better if such a plan surfaces. But until then, we keep it and fund it with the FairTax.

MediCare on the other hand will probably always be required at 65, so I see no way to change that for most retired workers. But hey, you never know. 30 years ago when we as young political scientists and economists were trying to figure out a better way than the federal income tax, we would have never dreamed that a team of economists would be hired by a private individual and set loose to solve the problem at his $23 million expense over several years, money he spent because he wanted to give something back to the American People that would help them and our country be more successful.

And by God, in 1999, his team did just that with the FairTax. So, when good, decent, honest people set their minds to really solving problems when they don't have their fingers in the pie as that team didn't, you never know when the perfect idea will be born and become the perfect solution to what is now 98 year old mistake that distorted everything in our economy, manipulated all our people and bankrupted their nation.

Well, first of all, no matter how you slice it, our monetary system is unConstitutional. A central bank is not authorized by it, as the Founders knew the dangers of it. Those dangers have come to fruition.

No corruption did not make us great. It has made despised. How are we viewed by the rest of the world? Mostly as an encroaching empire like that of ancient Rome.

A gift horse? That would be the Hamiltonian view. "a national debt if not excessive, to us should be a national blessing" A blessing to whom?

So with real lawful money you wouldn't be able to purchase a home? Or a car?

How can an End the Fed ideology be an end America ideology? What it would do, is replace a mafia mentality with one that would hopefully be honorable again. But it would require us, the people to be again good stewards and remain vigilant so that when liberty shivers in the cold of night, we come to the rescue immediately.

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

Well, first of all, no matter how you slice it, our monetary system is unConstitutional. A central bank is not authorized by it, as the Founders knew the dangers of it. Those dangers have come to fruition.

No corruption did not make us great. It has made despised. How are we viewed by the rest of the world? Mostly as an encroaching empire like that of ancient Rome.

A gift horse? That would be the Hamiltonian view. "a national debt if not excessive, to us should be a national blessing" A blessing to whom?

So with real lawful money you wouldn't be able to purchase a home? Or a car?

How can an End the Fed ideology be an end America ideology? What it would do, is replace a mafia mentality with one that would hopefully be honorable again. But it would require us, the people to be again good stewards and remain vigilant so that when liberty shivers in the cold of night, we come to the rescue immediately.

Well, keep in mind that it is the same people claiming "end the fed, end America ideology", who claim "no human is illegal", "free trade is good for America", "we're a nation of immigrants", "illegal aliens are hiding in the shadows" "doing the jobs Americans won't do", "our economy would collapse without illegal immigration", "our economy will collapse if we don't give trillions to the people who collapsed it", and etc., etc., etc.

Traitors are liars and not even very good ones at that, when we're paying attention. Well, my fellow arrogant American citizens, WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION NOW!!

I believe in ending the fed, but I do not believe in letting people enter illegally, nor giving amnesty to those who are already here. The law is the law. Either we stand on principle, or we fall from folly.

I know there are many libertarians who believe in letting them stay, and that is where I part ways with them. Which is why I am a Constitutionalist. The law is the law, and if we bend one or are willing to bend one to meet an end, then what law(s) are we willing to bend to get a desired effect in the future? It is tantamount to retrial after retrial until a desired verdict is reached. That is why it is not allowed by our foundations.

This is why I discussed at length with you about the fairtax. John Marshall, Fischer Ames, Elbridge Gerry, George Washington, and even Alexander Hamilton would have discussed and debated it with you or me or anyone else who wished to. And it would have been at great length and finely detailed in words spoken, and probably in their minds, they would have been against it as it is too easy to corrupt it. Remember, thy just freed themselves from a tyrannical King George III, and were very leary about giving anything even remotely corruptable a chance to gain a foothold. That is why it was discussed at length in their time and dropped by them. But they were good discussions. Especially once we started to have a more civily oriented exchange.

So in the end, the way I see it, is either we have a solid foundation to build on, or we build a structure on a faulty foundation that could come down around us when we least expect it. And no ammount of money, lawful or otherwise will stop it.

Originally Posted by Hylander_1314

I believe in ending the fed, but I do not believe in letting people enter illegally, nor giving amnesty to those who are already here. The law is the law. Either we stand on principle, or we fall from folly.

I know there are many libertarians who believe in letting them stay, and that is where I part ways with them. Which is why I am a Constitutionalist. The law is the law, and if we bend one or are willing to bend one to meet an end, then what law(s) are we willing to bend to get a desired effect in the future? It is tantamount to retrial after retrial until a desired verdict is reached. That is why it is not allowed by our foundations.

This is why I discussed at length with you about the fairtax. John Marshall, Fischer Ames, Elbridge Gerry, George Washington, and even Alexander Hamilton would have discussed and debated it with you or me or anyone else who wished to. And it would have been at great length and finely detailed in words spoken, and probably in their minds, they would have been against it as it is too easy to corrupt it. Remember, thy just freed themselves from a tyrannical King George III, and were very leary about giving anything even remotely corruptable a chance to gain a foothold. That is why it was discussed at length in their time and dropped by them. But they were good discussions. Especially once we started to have a more civily oriented exchange.

So in the end, the way I see it, is either we have a solid foundation to build on, or we build a structure on a faulty foundation that could come down around us when we least expect it. And no ammount of money, lawful or otherwise will stop it.

The FairTax isn't corruptible at all. It's transparent. It's voluntary. It's uniform. The people control it totally without threat, mandate, intrusion or reprisal.