Thread: It's Happening!! Confiscation and Door to Door Compliance Checks

Originally Posted by Judy

I never said anything about "gun ownership". The illegal alien is charged with possession of a gun, not ownership of it.

OMG, you bounce around more than Tigger! You're just playing stupid word games now. As you well know, possession could mean ownership and ownership means possession.

Either an illegal alien is protected by the 2nd Amendment as you claim or he isn't. Time to make up your mind, which is it?

Let me give you an example. You're in a parking lot trying to find your keys to open your car and get into it. Someone comes up behind you and sticks a gun in your back. You elbow him and he drops his gun and you two are fighting and he pulls out a switchblade because he can't reach his gun. An illegal alien coming out of Walmart sees the incident and runs over, picks up the gun the attacker dropped and shoots him. You pick yourself up off the pavement and call 911. Are you going to demand the authorities send the man who saved your life to prison for 10 years for "possession of a gun" because he's an illegal alien? I would just want him and his family deported back to wherever they came from. If the illegal alien had complied with the federal law you're touting, the illegal alien couldn't have picked up the gun and would have just stood there and let the attacker slice you up, then get in his vehicle and drive safely out of the parking lot.

The effort to stop illegal immigration has too often focused on the wrong things, and this is just another one of those examples. It doesn't matter whether you're a dangerous illegal alien or a nice sweet one. It doesn't matter whether you work in construction working a good job or pick lettuce. What makes you an illegal alien is being in the country illegally, whether you're a "good" one or "bad" one. It's not about why you came here or what you do while you're here. It's about 1 thing, whether you have permission to be in the United States. If you are not a citizen and do not have valid unexpired documents to be in the United States, then you must be deported and removed from our country.

Originally Posted by MW

OMG, you bounce around more than Tigger! You're just playing stupid word games now. As you well know, possession could mean ownership and ownership means possession.

Either an illegal alien is protected by the 2nd Amendment as you claim or he isn't. Time to make up your mind, which is it?

Illegal aliens like all people in the United States are protected by the 2nd Amendment to keep and bear arms, a right that shall not be infringed. Separately, the federal government has the authority to regulate under the Commerce Clause the manufacture and sale of firearms. Under the Commerce Clause they can prohibit the sale of firearms to a minor or to illegal aliens or foreign nationals. But it can't prohibit a minor, illegal alien or other foreign national from using their parents gun or some other gun to target shoot or even get the gun and kill an attacker, burglar, rapist, murderer or other enemy that poses a threat to their lives or someone else's.

It's clear you've never really given any thought to the 2nd Amendment, which honestly, doesn't surprise me at all.

Originally Posted by Judy

Illegal aliens like all people in the United States are protected by the 2nd Amendment to keep and bear arms, a right that shall not be infringed. Separately, the federal government has the authority to regulate under the Commerce Clause the manufacture and sale of firearms. Under the Commerce Clause they can prohibit the sale of firearms to a minor or to illegal aliens or foreign nationals. But it can't prohibit a minor, illegal alien or other foreign national from using their parents gun or some other gun to target shoot or even get the gun and kill an attacker, burglar, rapist, murderer or other enemy that poses a threat to their lives or someone else's.

It's clear you've never really given any thought to the 2nd Amendment, which honestly, doesn't surprise me at all.

What doesn't surprise me at all is your failure to give me a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer. All the blather isn't necessary. Have you ever attempted to answer a question in the most direct way possible?

So what you're saying is an illegal alien has the constitutional right to own and possess a firearm in the United states. Is that correct? Remember, a 'yes' or 'no' answer will suffice.

Originally Posted by MW

What doesn't surprise me at all is your failure to give me a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer. All the blather isn't necessary. Have you ever attempted to answer a question in the most direct way possible?

So what you're saying is an illegal alien has the constitutional right to own and possess a firearm in the United states. Is that correct? Remember, a 'yes' or 'no' answer will suffice.

No, an illegal alien has the constitutional right to POSSESS (keep and bear) a firearm in the United States. Whether they have the right to OWN a gun depends on how it was acquired and the laws of the country under the Commerce Clause as well as state and local laws. The 2nd Amendment doesn't address ownership, it addresses "keep and bear" which is POSSESSION, NOT OWNERSHIP. Citizens of the United States don't even have the constitutional right to own a gun under the 2nd Amendment, it depends on what citizens allow their Congress to do under the Commerce Clause and states to do under the 10th Amendment.

Are you not aware of the various different components of the US Constitution and how they interconnect? What is it about "keep and bear" that leads you to think that means "ownership"? "Keep" means to have in your possession, you might own it, you might not. "Bear" means to carry. The word "people" means persons, human beings. Nothing about "illegal alien", "immigration status", "citizen", "green card", "visa". Simple word, people, that means persons that means human beings.

The 2nd Amendment guarantees people (persons) in the United States the right to possess and carry a firearm. Plain meaning of the words in our language. Nothing about ownership. Nothing about citizen persons versus other persons.

If you don't want illegal aliens roaming around with guns in the United States, it's a very simple solutiono to that, it's called DEPORTATION.

Originally Posted by Judy

Just use paper straws and you won't have to worry about the 6 months in the slammer. Comply with the "rule of law". You have no constitutional right to a plastic straw, you do however have a constitutional right to possess a gun.

Straw registration!

Originally Posted by patbrunz

First of all people are being jailed, not just fined.

Tongue-in-cheek!

Originally Posted by patbrunz

Secondly you are apparently ignorant of the importance of the second amendment and how bad a thing the confiscation of people’s firearms is.

WRONG! I don't read it as you apparently do (and Judy) that it is limitless rights to keep and bear arms. It's sort of like "freedom of speech" in the First Amendment. Was that the right to call your neighbor any filthy name that comes to your mind? Or was it the right to be publicly critical of your government?

I agree with the right of lawful citizens to have and carry fire arms, for self protection. I am against citizens having the right to have an arsenal to go to war with.

Originally Posted by patbrunz

Frankly I’m really surprised an ALIPACer wouldn’t be aware of the importance of the second amendment.

Apparently you want to rid this service of anybody who doesn't agree with you on everything!

Originally Posted by patbrunz

You seriously place the importance of having a frigging straw over people being able to defend themselves?

Well, a straw could be used as a blowgun with poison darts!

• Harvard Law Review
• Vol. 125, No. 3, JANUARY 2012
• Constitutional Law —...

JOURNAL ARTICLE

Constitutional Law — Second Amendment — Fifth Circuit Holds that Undocumented Immigrants Do Not Have Second Amendment Rights. — United States v. Portillo-Munoz, 643 F.3d 437 (5th Cir. 2011)

Harvard Law Review
Vol. 125, No. 3 (JANUARY 2012), pp. 835-842
Published by: The Harvard Law Review Association
Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/41349891
Page Count: 8

Topics: Fourth Amendment, Second Amendment, Undocumented immigrants, Privacy rights, Dicta, Citizenship,Judges, Dissenting opinions, Federal district courts, Guns
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Originally Posted by Judy

I never said anything about "gun ownership". The illegal alien is charged with possession of a gun, not ownership of it.

So Judy's okay with illegal aliens possessing and using stolen guns, just that they can't own the gun they use!

Originally Posted by Judy

Are you going to demand the authorities send the man who saved your life to prison for 10 years for "possession of a gun" because he's an illegal alien? I would just want him and his family deported back to wherever they came from.

That's why we are a nation of laws. The purpose is to take away that emotional response that allows criminals to proliferate. All criminals are somebody's child. We need to pity them.

Originally Posted by Judy

If the illegal alien had complied with the federal law you're touting, the illegal alien couldn't have picked up the gun and would have just stood there and let the attacker slice you up, then get in his vehicle and drive safely out of the parking lot.

No, the illegal alien wouldn't be in the country to distract police from detaining criminals like the one you fantasize attacking you.

Of course your scenario ignores the likelihood that police would take into account the fact that that illegal alien was not committing a crime by using that gun.

Originally Posted by Judy

It doesn't matter whether you're a dangerous illegal alien or a nice sweet one. It doesn't matter whether you work in construction working a good job or pick lettuce. What makes you an illegal alien is being in the country illegally, whether you're a "good" one or "bad" one.

YES!

Originally Posted by Judy

It's not about why you came here or what you do while you're here. It's about 1 thing, whether you have permission to be in the United States. If you are not a citizen and do not have valid unexpired documents to be in the United States, then you must be deported and removed from our country.

YES!