Thread: The lid is OFF 9/11/01!!!

Well, it's gotten out of hand around here and I'm going to exercise my discretionary powers and lock the thread I started. Crocket, we'll just have to agree to disagree, and leave it at that. If y'all want to continue this conversation, start another one.

After serious consideration I've come to one conclusion.

It doesn't matter how the towers came down. If we don't stop the invasion, NONE of it will MATTER!

So here's the deal folks. I'm agreeing with something Greg said.

"We've got bigger fish to fry..."

And I've still not stated my personal opinion....

After getting some negative feedback over locking this thread and discussing it with some of the other moderators, I've decided to re-open this discussion for those of you who want to participate in it. I'm going to try to stay out of it, however, because I do believe that it distracts us from the main objective, stopping illegal immigration.

One thing I will say is that there are opposing points of view in the scientific community as to the reasons these buildings came down, and those viewpoints shouldn't be ridiculed simply because some people don't agree with them.

Additionally, someone posted a long C & P from NIST about the cause of the collapses, so I went and found the complete report and began to read it. It's 250+ pages, so it took a minute to get to the good part. I will quote it below...

5.5.18 Summary of results and Discussion (page 203)
The behaviors of the floor system found in the full-floor models subjected to impact damage and elevated temperatures from the fires can be summarized as follows:

Bridging trusses subjected to elevated temperatures buckled between primary trusses.

When significant differences in thermal expansion of the floors and exterior walls in the direction transverse to the axes of primary trusses occurred near the corners, studs, diagonal strap anchors, gusset platesand seat bolts at exterior truss seats failed due to lateral shear.

Web diagonals of floor trusses with damaged insulation buckled.

Floors sagged as they lost bending stiffness resulting from web diagonal buckling, and they pulled the exterior wall in.

Truss seats disconnected from the exterior walls.

Pull-in forces were expected to develop whenever the floor sagged. Although the floor sagging was captured by the floor models in the heated area, the pull-in force on the exterior columns was not captured in most of the full floor model analyses. To accurately calculate pull-in forces between the floors and the exterior columns in the full floor model, much more detailed modeling will be required. Such modeling includes acurate boundary conditions on columns, creep in steel, friction at the truss seats, accurate evaluation of strap anchors and studs, and concrete cracking and spalling. In addition temperature time histories that were used in the full floor model analyses may have been conservative estimates, which were derived from conservative estimates of impact damage to the insulation. Further discussion on the pull-in force can be found in Section 2.5.2 of NIST NCSTAR1-6D.

Here's what I got from this.

Bridging trusses buckled, while primary trusses remained remained stable.

Lateral shear at exterior truss seats ONLY occurred when certain criteria were evident, and occurring in a certain way.

Now pay close attention here, I'll highlight what seems pertinent to me.

Pull-in forces were expected to develop whenever the floor sagged. Although the floor sagging was captured by the floor models in the heated area, the pull-in force on the exterior columns was not captured in most of the full floor model analyses.

In other words, the result they needed to validate their opinion could not be duplicated by their models. Maybe I'm too simple-minded to comprehend such doublespeak, but it seems to me they're ADMITTING that their hypothesis has holes in it big enough to fly airplanes through.

Originally Posted by PinestrawGuys

Well, it's gotten out of hand around here and I'm going to exercise my discretionary powers and lock the thread I started. Crocket, we'll just have to agree to disagree, and leave it at that. If y'all want to continue this conversation, start another one.

After serious consideration I've come to one conclusion.

It doesn't matter how the towers came down. If we don't stop the invasion, NONE of it will MATTER!

So here's the deal folks. I'm agreeing with something Greg said.

"We've got bigger fish to fry..."

And I've still not stated my personal opinion....

NOW THATS ONE I CAN GO WITH !!!

I don’t care how we do it, and I might not know half of what you guys do, but Ill invite you all to a huge banquet just for this cause, to stop invasion. I can do that If we don’t march soon we will not have the chance.

And you know this HOW? greg

Originally Posted by GREGAGREATAMERICAN

I don’t care how we do it, and I might not know half of what you guys do, but Ill invite you all to a huge banquet just for this cause, to stop invasion. I can do that If we don’t march soon we will not have the chance.

That sounds great...please post the date, time and place.

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

And you know this HOW? greg

Im sorry that was a genral statement Ive calmed down a little sence Ive eaten.

That 'general statement' of yours, greg, said in essence that
We would NOT win if we did NOT march.

That's not a very productive message to send to Americans, imo.
It's counter productive to our FOCUS and great efforts made by all our activists. Being one of the many people who put in unimagineable hours working for our country and our members, it's disturbing to me.

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

That 'general statement' of yours, greg, said in essence that
We would NOT win if we did NOT march.

That's not a very productive message to send to Americans, imo.
It's counter productive to our FOCUS and great efforts made by all our activists. Being one of the many people who put in unimagineable hours working for our country and our members, it's disturbing to me.

Stop looking for faults in my type, just stop, you know as well as i do, what I meant

Originally Posted by GREGAGREATAMERICAN

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

That 'general statement' of yours, greg, said in essence that
We would NOT win if we did NOT march.

That's not a very productive message to send to Americans, imo.
It's counter productive to our FOCUS and great efforts made by all our activists. Being one of the many people who put in unimagineable hours working for our country and our members, it's disturbing to me.

Stop looking for faults in my type, just stop, you know as well as i do, what I meant

Look kiddo, I don't know anything other than what you posted! I tried to be polite concerning this, however, you did not reciprocate.

I was completely honest with you.......I know no other way.
My post was forthright and sincere.

I find that an unproductive message. If you can't see that, it's not my problem. However, we work very hard with long hours dedicated to many actions that are posted in the forums for all to see. I value may time and that of everyone else who's doing the same as me. Their efforts are tremendous. It would be disingenuous of me to let these efforts get derailed if I can stop it.

You've POSTED NUMEROUS 'march posts' throughout Alipac. We've already told you to look at William's announcements concerning it.
This particular post of yours said
WE WILL LOSE

Well, I say to you...........NO WE WON'T