Thread: President Trump’s tax plan keeps the socialist communist progressive income tax alive

And wouldn't you just love that!! Well, I intend to live a very very long time and watch all Anti-FairTax Republicans lose their gravy trains earned off the misery of income tax slavery. I've been on the case of a national sales tax to replace the income tax since I wrote a paper on it in college, got an A+ on it, and the professor read it to the class, then used it in some research he was doing and disseminated it through the academic community. So, your little insults and put-downs don't touch me. I remember well the C students who turned in awe and shouted stupidity like "my daddy is a salesman and won't be able to deduct his expenses" .... LOL!! To which i calmly replied deduct them from what? When you owe zero, you have nothing to deduct from.

Oh yes, this tax plan that's just passed, it's the road-map to passing the FairTax, and it will not only pass during my lifetime, it will pass during Trump's Presidency.

Have a great day, MW!

Originally Posted by Judy

I intend to live a very very long time and watch all Anti-FairTax Republicans lose their gravy trains earned off the misery of income tax slavery. I've been on the case of a national sales tax to replace the income tax since I wrote a paper on it in college, got an A+ on it, and the professor read it to the class, then used it in some research he was doing and disseminated it through the academic community.

And my research and promotion of returning to our Constitution's original tax plan appears in the Congressional Record, on two separate occasions; was the subject of a number of radio talk shows during the 1980s and early 90s; appeared in The Washington Times; and is found in "Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan" ___ a work documenting our Constitution's original tax plan which you would subvert with a tax plan that enslaves working people by taxing them on the sale of property which every working person has in their own labor.

How can you, Judy, condemn "income tax slavery" and support the "fairtax' slavery which imposes a tax on working people who sell the property each has in their own labor?

JWK
“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

Originally Posted by johnwk

And my research and promotion of returning to our Constitution's original tax plan appears in the Congressional Record, on two separate occasions; was the subject of a number of radio talk shows during the 1980s and early 90s; appeared in The Washington Times; and is found in "Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan" ___ a work documenting our Constitution's original tax plan which you would subvert with a tax plan that enslaves working people by taxing them on the sale of property which every working person has in their own labor.

How can you, Judy, condemn "income tax slavery" and support the "fairtax' slavery which imposes a tax on working people who sell the property each has in their own labor?

JWK
“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

I've already explained why I prefer the FairTax over your plan. I realize you've worked hard and long on trying to take US backwards to the 1700's, but you have missed two important facts. First, a sales tax is NOT a direct tax, it is an indirect tax, like a tariff. It is not a tax on the "property of labor". Labor was a property in the 1700's, it was after all the day of slavery. Labor is not a property. Labor is not a store owner, not a babysitter, not a moonlighting plumber, not a self-employed lawn mower or leaf raker. Those are business people, working for themselves, same as a farmer, same as any self-employed person. Labor is when you work for someone else, not yourself. Second, the original tax plan was NOT to bill the states for anything, except in the event of shortfalls, emergencies, catastrophes. The original tax plan of the United States was based on tariffs, duties, imposts and excise taxes and ONLY IF for some reason there was a shortfall to pay the important bills of government such as funding armies or war or national disasters, ONLY THEN would the provision of assessing the states be used, no different than the way a Condominium collects Condominium Fees and only assess their members when for some reason something has gone wrong or something big and new wants to be done and the normal revenue is insufficient to cover it.

Never, not once, in the history of the United States has that shortfall provision ever been used to fund one dime of the shortfalls of the US government, and there's a very good reason for that: it is unenforceable. But any time you're ready to pay up for your "fair share" of a $20 trillion national "shortfall", hey, feel free to send it in, but I'll never agree to a corrupt government using the force of itself or the states to take my house, my property, or anything else to pay for their idiocy. And no other American will either.

There is only one solution to the income tax and that is replacing it with the FairTax. Based on many decades of studying this issue, of working both as an employee, as an independent contractor, as an investor, and as a business owner, I know for myself based on this broad experience, that the FairTax is the answer.

Not everyone is going to see it, I realize that. Not everyone can get their head around it, I know that. All we need is a majority in Congress and some day very soon, the income tax swine will be outnumbered by real Americans, and Americans will prevail. I believe in my country, I believe in the people of the United States, and they are soon, very soon, on the verge of weaning themselves from the corrupt and evil menace known as the income tax, not just at the federal level, but all levels of government, and the deplorable menace of property taxes are next. And when all of that sickness is dispensed with, Americans will finally be truly free from the shackles of government tax tyranny.

Originally Posted by Judy

I've already explained why I prefer the FairTax over your plan. I realize you've worked hard and long on trying to take US backwards to the 1700's, but you have missed two important facts. First, a sales tax is NOT a direct tax, it is an indirect tax, like a tariff. It is not a tax on the "property of labor". .

Backwards? Your innuendo is an indication of your inability to defend your position.

Aside from that, we are talking about a specific tax, the “fairtax” which is asserted to be a sales tax. Regardless of what name you put on the tax in question, Judy, it does in fact tax a laboring person on the sale of property which every working person has in their own labor.

TAXABLE PROPERTY OR SERVICE-

`(A) GENERAL RULE- The term `taxable property or service' means--
`(i) any property (including leaseholds of any term or rents with respect to such property) but excluding--
`(I) intangible property, and
`(II) used property, and
`(ii) any service (including any financial intermediation services as determined by section 801).


`(d) Liability for Tax-

`(1) IN GENERAL- The person using or consuming taxable property or services in the United States is liable for the tax imposed by this section, except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection.


`(2) EXCEPTION WHERE TAX PAID TO SELLER-A person using or consuming a taxable property or service in the United States is not liable for the tax imposed by this section if the person pays the tax to a person selling the taxable property or service and receives from such person a purchaser's receipt within the meaning of section 510.

`(f) Barter Transactions- If gross payment for taxable property or services is made in other than money, then the person responsible for collecting and remitting the tax shall remit the tax to the sales tax administering authority in money as if gross payment had been made in money at the tax inclusive fair market value of the taxable property or services purchased

`(a) In General- Any person liable to collect and remit taxes pursuant to section 103(a) who is engaged in a trade or business shall register as a seller with the sales tax administering authority administering the taxes imposed by this subtitle.

___________


How can you, Judy, condemn "income tax slavery" and support the "fairtax' slavery which imposes a tax on working people who sell the property each has in their own labor?

Is it not an inalienable right of mankind to sell the property each has in their own labor? Why do you support allowing our federal government to tax an inalienable right of mankind, Judy?


Tell us, Judy, why do you want to enslave Mary and Joe Sixpack and make them slaves to our federal government by compelling them to spend a portion of their lives each month filling out and filing fairtax returns and paying a tax on the exercise of an inalienable right, which is the right to sell the property they have in their own labor?

Why do you support such a slavish tax, Judy?

Why do you want to tax the bread a working person has earned when selling their labor?


JWK

“…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

johnwk, slavery was a states rights issue, not a federal one. We fought the bloodiest war Americans have ever fought to end the right of states to enslave our people. You want to substitute state income and property tax slavery for the federal income tax, I oppose that 100%. If I had a choice between your plan and the existing federal income tax, I would stay with the income tax. But I have a choice to support a better plan, the FairTax plan. I'm all in for the FairTax for all the right reasons.

And honestly, quoting a slave owner about not taking the bread from the mouth of labor? Seriously?!!!

Geez.

Oh and by the way since it appears you do not know this, Thomas Jefferson didn't have anything to with our US Constitution, didn't attend or participate in the Convention that produced the US Constitution. He was involved in the Declaration of Independence, not the US Constitution.

Originally Posted by Judy

johnwk, slavery was a states . . .

Your deflection from discussing the alleged fairtax and what I have posted in response to your claims is noted. Has my documentation and reasoning finally overwhelmed you, and why you now want to talk about states rights?

LOL!! Yes, that's it, you brilliance quoting slave owners from the 1700's who weren't even involved with the US Constitution has "overwhelmed" me. Let me summarize it for you, I don't like your plan, I don't want your plan. I prefer the FairTax for all the right reasons. I hate state income tax as much as I hate federal income tax. I abhor state and local property taxes. Unless states under your plan were required to use a uniform sales tax to collect their "'share", I want nothing to do with it. A sales tax is not a direct tax, it's an indirect tax. The original tax plan was the plan they used, excises, imposts, duties and tariffs, which are taxes on transactions, just like a sales tax.

I'm all in for the FairTax so being nice to you as I've been and addressing your posts as I've done are now best left to someone else, so consider me totally "deflected" from youru posts on taxes.

FairTax is Rising and will be the law of land, very very soon.

Originally Posted by Judy

Never, not once, in the history of the United States has that shortfall provision ever been used to fund one dime of the shortfalls of the US government...

The truth is, the direct tax upon the states was used a number of times:


FROM THE SPRINGER CASE:

The act of July 14, 1798, c. 75, 1 Stat. 53. This act imposed a tax upon real estate and a capitation tax upon slaves.

The act of Aug. 2, 1813, c. 37, 3 id. 53. By this act the tax was imposed upon real estate and slaves, according to their respective values in money.

The act of Jan. 19, 1815, c. 21, id. 164. This act imposed the tax upon the same descriptions of property, and in like manner as thepreceding act.

The act of Feb. 27, 1815, c. 60, id. 216, applied to the District of Columbia the provisions of the act of Jan. 19, 1815. [102 U.S. 586,599] The act of March 5, 1816, c. 24,id. 255, repealed the two preceding acts, and re-enacted their provisions to enforce the collection of the smaller amount of tax thereby prescribed.

The act of Aug. 5, 1861, c. 45, 12 id. 294, required the tax to be levied wholly on real estate.

The act of June 7, 1862, c. 98, id. 422, and the act of Feb.6, 1863, c. 21, id. 640, both relate only to the collection, in insurrectionary districts, of the direct tax imposed by the act of Aug. 5, 1861, and need not,therefore, be more particularly noticed.

__________


Here is a link to the FIRST DIRECT TAX laid by Congress.

It's not nice to make stuff up Judy.

JWK