Thread: Tea Party Activists beware: fairtax con artists are back!

Originally Posted by Shadow

I don't know, are you imposing that we all must pay more taxes because our government wants more?

the fairtax isn't fair if it imposes more taxes on people, why do you think their pushing such a thing?

Your not the only one with an opinion. Why are you bashing everyone that's against it?

1. The FairTax doesn't impose more taxes on people.

2. It doesn't impose any tax on anyone, let alone more taxes.

3. You decide if you want a new car or a used car or keep the one you have. If you keep the one you have, you pay no tax, if you buy a used car, you pay no tax, the only time you pay a tax under the FairTax is when you decide to buy the new car.

4. If you want to buy a used lawnmower and mow your own yard, you pay no tax. If you want to buy a new lawnmower, you pay a FairTax on it. If you want to hire someone to mow your yard, you pay a FairTax on that service.

5. If you want to buy a new house, you pay a FairTax on it. If you buy an existing house, you pay no tax on it.

6. If you put some money in savings, you pay no tax on that.

7. If you want to invest in something, you pay no tax on that either.

8. If Americans aren't smart enough to figure out how to use the FairTax to reduce their total tax cost, if that's what they want to do, then you need to call the Crones for directions to the Drones Dorm, check in, get your tattoo and just put yourselves out of your own misery.

9. Pointing out the special interests of the various entities bashing the FairTax is not bashing people who oppose it. It's just pointing out the reason why they oppose it, which by the way are articles written mostly 5 years ago that have already been debunked.

10. I'm not the one who opened a thread calling people who support the FairTax "con artists".

You're free to support the existing income-based tax system, and if you do, then just kindly say so. There are a lot of people who like the income-based tax system who benefit from it at the expense of someone else. What's new?!

Now as to the typical benefit of the FairTax to the average American Household:

A family of four that earns $50,000 in wages pays 7.65% in social security tax and approximately $15% in federal income tax. This amounts to $3,825 in social security savings and assuming adjusted gross income of $40,000 another $6,000 in federal income tax. This family no longer pays the $3,825 in social security taxes or the $6,000 in federal income tax, so they take home $9,825 a year more in expendable income under the FairTax. In addition, they will receive the Rebate if they want it in the amount of $6,440 per year. The combined new expendable income for this family of 4 is $9,825 + $6,440 or $15,825 a year. Add in the savings on filing tax returns of $175 a year and this family is now enriched by $16,000 a year by the FairTax. That’s $16,000 more on an estimated previous take home of $40,000 (after tax) or a 40% increase in the typical family’s net expendable income.

Now you use your free will to decide how you spend, save and/or invest that $56,440 a year that thanks to the FairTax made it to your pockets. Your choice. Your decision.

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax repeals all INCOME-BASED taxes and replaces them with a national retail sales tax ...

That is not true Judy. There is nothing inTHE TEXT OF THE LEGISLATION withdrawing, or proposing to withdraw, the power of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and/or gains, as were imposed under the Corporate Excise Tax Act of 1909.

You really need to stop posting inaccurate information.


JWK

You really need to read up on what an excise tax is, along with what the US Constitution authorizes in Article 1, Section 8.

Oh here, I'll help you:

Article I Section 8 Paragraph 1:

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

__________________

Do you see it JWK? Do you see the word "excises" in Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 1 of the US CONSTITUTION?

Now what is an excise tax? It's an indirect tax on the manufacture or sale of products or tax on corporate charters, and is not an income, property or estate tax.

The FairTax doesn't repeal them, because they are not part of the income tax code being repealed and replaced by the FairTax. If you want to repeal them, have at it. We'll collect $77 billion in excise taxes this year out of $2.381 Trillion in total receipts.

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

I would personally like to see excise taxes removed from the scene as well, but that's up to different legislation...

Judy,

What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?


JWK

Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 1 of the US Constitution, JWK.

Article I Section 8 Paragraph 1:

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Judy,

You never answered the question.

What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?

The section of the Constitution you quote refers to duties, imposts and excises


What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?



It's really a very simple question.


JWK

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax repeals all INCOME-BASED taxes and replaces them with a national retail sales tax ...

That is not true Judy. There is nothing inTHE TEXT OF THE LEGISLATION withdrawing, or proposing to withdraw, the power of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and/or gains, as were imposed under the Corporate Excise Tax Act of 1909.

You really need to stop posting inaccurate information.


JWK

You really need to read up on what an excise tax is, along with what the US Constitution authorizes in Article 1, Section 8.

Oh here, I'll help you:

Judy, you did write The FairTax repeals all INCOME-BASED taxes


I can find nothing inTHE TEXT OF THE LEGISLATION withdrawing, or proposing to withdraw, the power of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and/or gains, [INCOME-BASED taxes] as were imposed under the Corporate Excise Tax Act of 1909.


Please post that provision from the text of the proposed legislation.


JWK

Oh sure, the government doesn't want more taxes.. of course.. we should have known that.. fairtax is a god send. once imposed, the sun will shine, and the butterflies will once again reappear.

and when the states impose their fairtax within the states that presently are taxed you still don't see any increase?

and you can take your government figures on how to figure this and use it yourself. they usually let something slide in, then raise the hell out of it. or change the figures later. The government is and always has been against anyone wanting to keep their own money. taxes is all they think about.

the fair tax does impose more taxes! You think it doesn't impose taxes on anyone? what world do you live in? lol

nothing fair about the fair tax! just another way of parting you with any money you have. that their good at.

You can stop trying to sell me something i'm apposed to, your figures are as factual as mine. Now stop bashing anyone that has another opinion other than yours.

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

I would personally like to see excise taxes removed from the scene as well, but that's up to different legislation...

Judy,

What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?


JWK

Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 1 of the US Constitution, JWK.

Article I Section 8 Paragraph 1:

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Judy,

You never answered the question.

What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?

The section of the Constitution you quote refers to duties, imposts and excises


What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?



It's really a very simple question.


JWK

Yes, I did.

The section of the US Constitution that authorizes the FairTax addresses taxes, duties, imposts and excises. The FairTax is an indirect sales tax.

Here it is again for you:

Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 1:

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

I would personally like to see excise taxes removed from the scene as well, but that's up to different legislation...

Judy,

What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?


JWK

Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 1 of the US Constitution, JWK.

Article I Section 8 Paragraph 1:

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Judy,

You never answered the question.

What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?

The section of the Constitution you quote refers to duties, imposts and excises


What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?



It's really a very simple question.


JWK

Yes, I did.

The section of the US Constitution that authorizes the FairTax addresses taxes, duties, imposts and excises. The FairTax is an indirect sales tax.

Here it is again for you:

Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 1:

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Judy,

You are repeating yourself without answering the question. We know the section of the US Constitution that authorizes different kinds of taxes. They are listed as duties, imposts and excises. Is the alleged fair tax a duty, an impost, or excise tax? Which one Judy?


JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax repeals all INCOME-BASED taxes and replaces them with a national retail sales tax ...

That is not true Judy. There is nothing inTHE TEXT OF THE LEGISLATION withdrawing, or proposing to withdraw, the power of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and/or gains, as were imposed under the Corporate Excise Tax Act of 1909.

You really need to stop posting inaccurate information.


JWK

You really need to read up on what an excise tax is, along with what the US Constitution authorizes in Article 1, Section 8.

Oh here, I'll help you:

Judy, you did write The FairTax repeals all INCOME-BASED taxes


I can find nothing inTHE TEXT OF THE LEGISLATION withdrawing, or proposing to withdraw, the power of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and/or gains, [INCOME-BASED taxes] as were imposed under the Corporate Excise Tax Act of 1909.


Please post that provision from the text of the proposed legislation.


JWK

The corporate income tax is part of the income taxes presently authorized by the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and 2009, Subchapter A, which is repealed by the FairTax in Section 101 of the FairTax legislation.

Here is the text of the legislation that repeals federal income taxes.

"SEC. 101. INCOME TAXES REPEALED.

"Subtitle A of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to income taxes and self-employment taxes) is repealed.

"SEC. 102. PAYROLL TAXES REPEALED.

(a) In General- Subtitle C of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to payroll taxes and withholding of income taxes) is repealed.

(b) Funding of Social Security- For funding of the Social Security Trust Funds from general revenue, see section 201 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 401).

"SEC. 103. ESTATE AND GIFT TAXES REPEALED.

Subtitle B of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to estate and gift taxes) is repealed.

"SEC. 104. CONFORMING AMENDMENTS; EFFECTIVE DATE.

(a) Conforming Amendments- The Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended--

(1) by striking subtitle H (relating to financing of Presidential election campaigns), and

(2) by redesignating--

(A) subtitle D (relating to miscellaneous excise taxes) as subtitle B,

(B) subtitle E (relating to alcohol, tobacco, and certain other excise taxes) as subtitle C,

(C) subtitle F (relating to procedure and administration) as subtitle D,

(D) subtitle G (relating to the Joint Committee on Taxation) as subtitle E,

(E) subtitle I (relating to the Trust Fund Code) as subtitle F,

(F) subtitle J (relating to coal industry health benefits) as subtitle G, and

(G) subtitle K (relating to group health plan portability, access, and renewability requirements) as subtitle H.

(b) Redesignation of 1986 Code-

(1) IN GENERAL- The Internal Revenue Code of 1986 enacted on October 22, 1986, as heretofore, hereby, or hereafter amended, may be cited as the Internal Revenue Code of 2009.

(2) REFERENCES IN LAWS, ETC- Except when inappropriate, any reference in any law, Executive order, or other document--

(A) to the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 shall include a reference to the Internal Revenue Code of 2009, and

(B) to the Internal Revenue Code of 2009 shall include a reference to the provisions of law formerly known as the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.

(c) Additional Amendments- For additional conforming amendments, see section 202 of this Act.

(d) Effective Date- Except as otherwise provided in this Act, the amendments made by this Act shall take effect on January 1, 2011."

_____________________________________

[quote=johnwk]

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by "Judy":17ftq0kw

I would personally like to see excise taxes removed from the scene as well, but that's up to different legislation...

Judy,

What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?


JWK

Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 1 of the US Constitution, JWK.

Article I Section 8 Paragraph 1:

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

Judy,

You never answered the question.

What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?

The section of the Constitution you quote refers to duties, imposts and excises


What constituional taxing power do you believe the alleged fairtax would be enacted under?



It's really a very simple question.


JWK

Yes, I did.

The section of the US Constitution that authorizes the FairTax addresses taxes, duties, imposts and excises. The FairTax is an indirect sales tax.

Here it is again for you:

Article 1, Section 8, Paragraph 1:

“The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Judy,

You are repeating yourself without answering the question. We know the section of the US Constitution that authorizes different kinds of taxes. They are listed as duties, imposts and excises. Is the alleged fair tax a duty, an impost, or excise tax? Which one Judy?


JWK[/quote:17ftq0kw]

No, JWK, "taxes" are "listed". The word "taxes" is authorized the same as duties, imposts and excises. You're claiming that the only "taxes" authorized by the US Constitution are duties, imposts and excises which isn't what the clause says. It says "taxes, duties, imposts and excises". In another section direct taxes like a capitation, income tax or property tax are prohibited, but indirect taxes on products and services are not. The national retail sales tax is an indirect tax and most certainly an authorized tax under the US Constitution, because it doesn't tax you, your property, your heads or your earnings. It taxes voluntary purchase transactions, the sale for money of new products and services to consumers, something they choose to buy or hire at their discretion.

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

Originally Posted by johnwk

Originally Posted by Judy

The FairTax repeals all INCOME-BASED taxes and replaces them with a national retail sales tax ...

That is not true Judy. There is nothing inTHE TEXT OF THE LEGISLATION withdrawing, or proposing to withdraw, the power of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and/or gains, as were imposed under the Corporate Excise Tax Act of 1909.

You really need to stop posting inaccurate information.


JWK

You really need to read up on what an excise tax is, along with what the US Constitution authorizes in Article 1, Section 8.

Oh here, I'll help you:

Judy, you did write The FairTax repeals all INCOME-BASED taxes


I can find nothing inTHE TEXT OF THE LEGISLATION withdrawing, or proposing to withdraw, the power of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and/or gains, [INCOME-BASED taxes] as were imposed under the Corporate Excise Tax Act of 1909.


Please post that provision from the text of the proposed legislation.


JWK

The corporate income tax is part of the income taxes presently authorized by the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and 2009, Subchapter A, which is repealed by the FairTax in Section 101 of the FairTax legislation.

Here is the text of the legislation that repeals federal income taxes.

"SEC. 101. INCOME TAXES REPEALED.

Judy,

You are not answering the question. Please post the provision from the text of H.R. 25 which proposes to withdraw the power of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and/or gains, [INCOME-BASED taxes] as were imposed under the Corporate Excise Tax Act of 1909.

SEC 101 which you posted refers to income taxes. It makes no mention of repealing Congress’ power to impose excise taxes which may be calculated from profits and gains. There is a big difference between an income tax and an excise tax. In addition, to withdraw the power of Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits and/or gains, it would take a constitutional amendment having the following, or similar wording: Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money

Where is the wording in the text of H.R. 25 proposing to forbid Congress to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money?


JWK


"In matters of power let no more be heard of confidence in men, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution. ...Jefferson