Thread: Support H.R.220 - Common Sense About Identity Theft & RE

Originally Posted by MW

Furthermore, we need a national standard for the issuance of driver's licenses.

That's ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason that the federal government needs to be involved in mandating standards for ID for anyone not under its direct jurisdiction (which would exclude the citizens of the several states under our constitutional system). There SHOULD be federal standards for ID for naturalized citizens or resident aliens. Why aren't they approaching it that way if the concerns are for national security? Answer: National security is a pretext for branding us all, and the new ID won't do a damned thing about deterring illegals.

CG wrote:

That's ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason that the federal government needs to be involved in mandating standards for ID for anyone not under its direct jurisdiction (which would exclude the citizens of the several states under our constitutional system). There SHOULD be federal standards for ID for naturalized citizens or resident aliens. Why aren't they approaching it that way if the concerns are for national security? Answer: National security is a pretext for branding us all, and the new ID won't do a damned thing about deterring illegals.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. While I can agree that many things are best left to the individual states to decide, I don't agree that driver's licenses should be one of them. Sure, you're right in regards to federal standards for naturalized citizen and resident alien indentification cards, but unfortunately no such plan exist that I'm aware of. Furthermore, without a federal standard, individual states would still be left with the responsibility of choosing which documents of proof they wanted to utilize for driver's license issuance. As difficult as it is to believe, not all states are acting responsibly when it comes to dealing with criminal aliens.

When a better mouse trap comes along, I'll be eager ditch this plan and accept it, but until then............

Exactly, They should be worried about tracking the people they let come to our country on all of their visa and guest worker programs.
They have no need to track citizens. PERIOD

Tell them to stuff their Real ID!!

If this goes through Calif is already trying to find a way to give illegals a driving permit!! Give us a break, what they need is a ride right back to their country of orgin.

Originally Posted by MW

CG wrote:

That's ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason that the federal government needs to be involved in mandating standards for ID for anyone not under its direct jurisdiction (which would exclude the citizens of the several states under our constitutional system). There SHOULD be federal standards for ID for naturalized citizens or resident aliens. Why aren't they approaching it that way if the concerns are for national security? Answer: National security is a pretext for branding us all, and the new ID won't do a damned thing about deterring illegals.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. While I can agree that many things are best left to the individual states to decide, I don't agree that driver's licenses should be one of them. Sure, you're right in regards to federal standards for naturalized citizen and resident alien indentification cards, but unfortunately no such plan exist that I'm aware of. Furthermore, without a federal standard, individual states would still be left with the responsibility of choosing which documents of proof they wanted to utilize for driver's license issuance. As difficult as it is to believe, not all states are acting responsibly when it comes to dealing with criminal aliens.

When a better mouse trap comes along, I'll be eager ditch this plan and accept it, but until then............

You operate from a persumption that the federal government is empowered by the Constitution to mandate specifications for an ID. It most certainly is NOT, and I defy you to show where such a power is enumerated.

Here's the thing you keep overlooking (apparently) - The federal government is not free to do anything that the majority (assuming that there is even a majority consensus on the Real ID, which I doubt) decides to let it do. I would recommend a refresher course in constitutional government. This government was set up to protect the minority from the duress of the majority. What we are talking about with Real ID is a mandatory program without which certain RIGHTS will be denied. It is not your right or within your or the government's power to deny me a right without overwhelming cause. Historically, the mandating of something like Real ID would require workarounds for conscientious objectors or else it would be illegal. Fortunately for the minority, the courts have historically stood for the protection of the minority against the tyranny of the majority. I say "historically" because that is increasingly not the case. Enough imbeciles have been sufficiently indoctrinated into the cult of democracy (a bankrupt system that was roundly rejected by the Founding Fathers as an untenable form of government easily turned to tyranny) that they believe that majority rule trumps everything. That's bullstuff! Our natural rights are meant to be inalienable, and the government is meant to be shackled like a ravening beast ready to dispossess us of our substance and liberty at the first opportunity.

It appears that we will indeed disagree on this issue, but I will not agree to concede the point in any wise. I have had enough of creeping tyranny for a lifetime and I am firmly drawing lines in the sand. For many of us, this is among a number of threshold issues that will determine wheter we can keep our constitutional republic or continue our sorry slide into tyranny. Oh, and as far as your notions of democracy go, we'll see how you feel about democracy versus constitutional republic of limited government once the illegal alien populations swell to the point that they have majorities in the major population centers and start applying their corrupt Third World sensibilities to the democratic kleptocracy.

Sorry MW, There is no Constitutional authority for the Real ID. States Rights are at issue with the Real ID, not to mention our privacy and security.

Do you know why the Real ID information has to be shared with Mexico and Canada? Do you think it ahs anything to do with the NAU?

Do you think the Real ID is for tracking those who enter our country?

This ID will allow illegals to drive!

This is nothing more than a leash on the American People. Without this ID, a person cannot move freely in a free nation. They cannot legally drive or get on a plane. I guess those of us who dont accept this ID will have to drive illegally and uninsured.

We cannot do banking without the ID, well unless I have a matricualr consular card and fake passport or other fake id. What happens when they require this ID to buy food and other goods? If and when the flat tax goes through, how do you think they are going to know at which rate o tax you? They will have to swipe your id. No id, no sale.

We cannot enter a Federal Building. Our tax dollars paid for them!

We cannot collect Social Security, not that I ever expect to, but I am not given the option to legally opt out paying into it, so why should I be exempt from receiving benefits which I was forced to pay into?

Sorry MW, you are and always will be wrong on this issue.

Wednesday, March 21, 2007
N.H. committee backs REAL ID ban

By NORMA LOVE
Associated Press Writer

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) _ The New Hampshire Legislature took a baby step Tuesday toward rejecting what they say amounts to the creation of a national ID card.

The House Transportation Committee voted unanimously to recommend barring the state from complying with the federal REAL ID Act, which sets standards for driver's licenses. The full House next considers the bill.

Rep. Sherman Packard, R-Londonderry, said Congress went too far in passing the law.

''We have to uphold the constitution,'' he said. ''We will not be blackmailed by the federal government.''

Committee Chairman Jim Ryan, a Franklin Democrat, said New Hampshire needs to send a clear statement that ''we believe the federal government has strayed too far.''

Last year, New Hampshire led the way in opposing the law _ a move now being considered by other states.

Earlier this month, President Bush bowed to pressure from the nation's governors and Congress and granted states until Dec. 31, 2009, to comply. Two years ago, Congress set a deadline for states to comply with uniform licensing standards by May 2008.

The law passed in response to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. It requires all states to bring their driver's licenses under a national standard and to link their record-keeping systems. States must verify identification used to obtain a driver's license, such as birth certificates, Social Security numbers and passports.

Driver's licenses not meeting the standard won't be accepted as identification to board a plane and enter federal buildings.

At a hearing last week, opponents argued the law was too intrusive. They also said the risk was too great that thieves would gain access to information needed to steal people's identities if a national database was created.

In January, Maine lawmakers adopted a nonbinding resolution opposing the law.

Rep. Neal Kurk, R-Weare, the prime sponsor of New Hampshire's bill, says 26 states have either legislation or resolutions in the works opposing REAL ID. He said 11 states have legislation facilitating compliance _ some of which also have measures opposing the act.

Last year, New Hampshire's House voted against participating and Gov. John Lynch said he would sign the bill, but the Senate rejected it. New Hampshire also was one of two states picked to pilot the program, but Lynch and the Executive Council did not approve the $3 million grant.

Last month, Lynch reiterated his concerns that too many questions remained about the cost, privacy and turning motor vehicle workers into de facto agents of Homeland Security. He said implementing the federal identity system could cost New Hampshire tens of millions of dollars.

Lynch reiterated Tuesday he would sign the bill if it reaches his desk.

http://www.citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar ... -1/CITIZEN

CARSON CITY
Nevada Lawmakers Say New ID Program Should Be Repealed

March 21, 2007 09:29 AM

A resolution urging Congress to repeal the federal Real ID Act won approval in the Assembly Transportation Committee.

The panel acted after being told that Nevada will take advantage of an extension offered to states from having to implement the act mandated by Congress and set to begin in May 2008.

Ginny Lewis, head of the state Department of Motor Vehicles, says the plan is to start issuing Real I-D-compliant driver licenses in October 2008.

The DMV chief said a 2013 deadline for full compliance still exists, and there's a concern about "compressed chaos" because the state will have less time to fully implement Real I-D.

But Lewis also says that she remains hopeful that the federal government will listen to concerns being voiced in many states and make changes in the program.


http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6258234&nav=8faO

Continuing The Fight Against REAL ID

Hello all,

I hope everyone is recovered after last year's fight against REAL ID, because this year we're going to do it again AND WIN. Maine has already set the standard by declaring that will not participate in REAL ID (link), and legislation is moving forward in most of the states. Rep. Jim Guest's office in Missouri is organizing a national coalition of state legislators against REAL ID. As a co-sponsor of the NH opt-out legislation, I've been invited on MSNBC already and I expect there will be more press over the next few months. Let's give them something to talk about!

We have a new bill here in NH for 2007, HB685, so now we can start getting our ducks in a row and get organized to shepherd it through the process for the governor's signature.

A few things we did last year could and should be duplicated. Petitions are going around, and are intended to be presented at the hearings. The rally was a great idea. Let's definitely do another rally.

Please take a few minutes to take action and help New Hampshire get out of the REAL ID Act. And don't forget to sign up for our email list!

— Rep. Joel Winters


Elections

The issue of Real ID did have an impact on this election. We saw signs for candidates proclaiming their stance against Real ID. We heard voters making their decisions on who to vote for based on the candidates' stand on Real ID.

Most importantly, the final numbers showed that "Being Free of REAL ID" was a winning issue. Of all the NH senators, all nine of them who supported the opt-out legislation were re-elected. Of the 14 that blocked it, six did not return this year, almost half. At the federal level, both of our Congressmen, who voted for READ ID, lost their re-election bids, with Jeb Bradley being replaced by Carol-Shea Porter, who spoke at last year's rally against REAL ID.

Hearing

The first hearing for the new bill will be this Thursday, March 15, at 3:00pm in the House Transportation committee, room 203 of the Legislative Office Building in Concord. It's right behind the Statehouse.

If you can be there, that would be great. We're not asking anyone to testify, just show your support for the legislation, wear your "Anti-RealId" pin, and maybe put in a quick word to your rep about it. Showing the legislature that we are paying attention to them and this issue is enough to get our point across.

If you went to last year's Senate hearing, you know how these things usually go. If this is new for you, the rules of the game are simple: we ask that you dress well and be courteous to all the reps, and sign the blue sheet at the front of the room in support of the bill. Other than that, just watch, listen and learn.

There is a lot of important legislation being heard that day, and many groups are gathering early in the morning at the Statehouse to coordinate activity. Feel free to meet them at the Statehouse cafeteria at 8:30am if you'd like to make a day of it.

See you on Thursday.

Add Idaho to the List

Idaho has become the second state to reject REAL ID. On March 8th, the state of Idaho passed a resolution rejecting the REAL ID Act and calling for its repeal. Among other problems, Idaho cited the national identification scheme created by the Act, the lack of congressional debate or hearings before its passage, and the enormous cost to civil liberties. (link).

Say NO to the REAL ID — and reject a multi-million $$ tax on NH drivers!
President Bush signed the REAL ID Act into law last year, turning your state driver's license into a de facto national ID card. You will have to show it to enter a federal building, open a bank account, or board a plane. Here are just a few of the reasons why REAL ID is a terrible idea.

The REAL ID means long lines and more money from you

REAL ID means the entire bureaucratic hassle of establishing your identity — to the satisfaction of the federal government — is shifted to your local DMV. Just to renew your license, you'll have to scrounge up a long list of identity documents. Then, after wasting hours and money getting the paperwork, you can expect to wait in long lines just to update your driver's license. You can expect increased fees to pay for all that extra work, too.

The REAL ID puts you at risk of identity theft

REAL ID creates a NATIONWIDE database that will make your personal information (photo, birth date, SSN, home address, driving record, biometric data, etc.) available to the federal government -- and every other state. This database will be a gold mine for identity thieves and junk marketers. (Especially since California DMV workers have been arrested for making bogus ID's out of real drivers' information — and giving them to criminals.)

REAL ID will create a bureaucratic nightmare — and cost a fortune
REAL ID is an unfunded mandate. It won't be cheap to create a huge government bureaucracy to collect, verify, and share massive amounts of personal data. Experts estimate that REAL ID compliance will cost Pennsylvania $85 million, Washington state over $45 million annually for several years, and Virginia could pay up to $169 million, plus $63 million a year after that. It could cost more than $12 million to convert our NH driver's licenses into National ID cards, but the federal government has only promised us $3 million. The rest of that burden will fall on you and me — the citizens and taxpayers of New Hampshire.
[*Source: AP News and security expert Bruce Schneier]

REAL ID will destroy your hard-won privacy protections

In New Hampshire, we're careful about our privacy. We fought for
the right to have our photographs and SSN's removed from NH's database so they will not fall prey to abuse (like what happened in other states where everyone's ID photos were sold to marketers). The federal government wants to take these protections away from us, forcing us to share our photos and home addresses with everyone else in the system.

National ID is the mark of a Police State

America has always been a free country. This is not a totalitarian regime where authorities can demand "Your papers, please!" of citizens. New Hampshire, the "Live Free or Die" state, is one of the last strongholds of freedom in the country. Let's put a stop to the encroaching police state. If we don't stand up for our rights, who will?

Here's the good news: there's a way out! and New Hampshire is leading the way.

http://www.granitestateid.com/

Resolution advances opposing national ID
3/22/07


LITTLE ROCK A resolution requesting Arkansas' Congressional delegation to support repealing the Real ID act was endorsed by a House panel today.
The non-binding resolution by Senator Ruth Whitaker, a Republican from Cedarville, would ask the state's congressman and senators to support repealing the 2005 legislation that calls for national standardized drivers' licenses.

Whitaker has said that she had introduced the bill after being contacted by a religious publication that warned of Biblical consequences for the I-D cards. But Representative John Paul Wells, a Democrat from Paris, who sponsored the resolution in the House, said he was more concerned that the identification law would create an unfunded mandated for Arkansas.




http://www.wmcstations.com/Global/story.asp?S=6265084

Executive Director's Letter

Dear members and friends of the Alliance,

This month the Department of Homeland Security released the long-awaited and much anticipated notice of proposed rulemaking for REAL ID, "Minimum Standards for Driver’s Licenses and Identification Cards Acceptable by Federal Agencies for Official Purposes" (Docket No. DHS-2006-0030), available at http://www.regulations.gov. The document is long, so unless you have a lot of time on your hands, good luck reading the whole thing in one sitting. I went right to the important stuff – the MRT (machine readable technology). There on page 19, I found that the “proposed regulation would mandate the use of the PDF-417 2D bar code as the common MRT standard and DHS proposes to adopt most of the mandatory data elements described in the 2005 AAMVA Driver’s License/Identification Card Design Specifications, Annex D, as its MRT data elements model. PDF417 is a two dimensional, open source (public domain) barcode that is used to store and transfer large amounts of data inexpensively." Inexpensively is the key word here.

This is where the document and DHS recommendation fall short. The core reason for the REAL ID legislation in the first place was supposed to be improved security, not the least expensive solution for storage and transmission of data that states could agree on. According to the opening summary, these new standards are intended to provide “physical security of the driver’s licenses and identification cards to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, and duplication of the documents for a fraudulent purpose.” Since this goal is stated up front, one could expect that the subsequent sections in the document would explain how the new driver’s license standard would go about achieving that goal. Instead DHS acknowledges that because 2D bar code readers are extremely common, there is a possibility that the data could be captured from the driver’s licenses and identification cards and accessed by third parties by reading the card’s 2D bar code. DHS failed to acknowledge that the proposed rulemaking has done nothing to prevent tampering with or illegal production of fraudulent driver’s licenses, since there is no active security in 2D barcodes that would prevent someone from altering or replacing a 2D barcode with a fake one.

It appears that DHS decision weighed current state and AAMVA use and the relative expense of the implementation more than anything else in the decision to specify 2D bar code technology. In doing so, DHS is missing the once in a generation opportunity to set a higher standard for secure identity for U.S. citizens as has already been done by the international community (as led by ICAO and strongly supported by our State Department), who has specified new, stronger security standards for passports that will be used by citizens and foreigners to enter our country. Since our federal government is asking individual states to pay the lion’s share of the driver’s license implementation, a different standard of security was used in this recent DHS decision. DHS is inviting public comment on this proposed rulemaking and I would encourage all members to submit your views to DHS on this controversial document by the May 8th deadline.

With the 6th Annual Smart Cards in Government Conference (April 10 – 13) just around the corner, you can bet that REAL ID and other federal identity initiatives including TWIC, Registered Traveler, ePassport, WHTI, and of course HSPD-12 will be a major part of the agenda. One of the best aspects of this annual conference each year is the dialog that takes place between the government policy makers, industry suppliers, and informed citizens about the tough choices and complex issues involving identity credentials and government. If you haven’t registered yet, there is still time to do so. With the extra room we gained by holding the event at the Reagan Building in beautiful downtown Washington, DC, we have room for more conference attendees and exhibitors than ever before – and we will be accepting registrations onsite as well. See you there!



Sincerely,

Randy Vanderhoof
Executive Director
rvanderhoof@smartcardalliance.org


http://www.smartcardalliance.org/newsle ... _0307.html