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Thread: Donald Trump’s tax plan is socialist and big government friendly.

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  1. #1
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Donald Trump’s tax plan is socialist and big government friendly.

    CLICK HERE for Donald Trump’s tax plan.


    "1.If you are single and earn less than $25,000, or married and jointly earn less than $50,000, you will not owe any income tax. That removes nearly 75 million households – over 50% – from the income tax rolls. They get a new one page form to send the IRS saying, “I win,” those who would otherwise owe income taxes will save an average of nearly $1,000 each.

    2.All other Americans will get a simpler tax code with four brackets – 0%, 10%, 20% and 25% – instead of the current seven. This new tax code eliminates the marriage penalty and the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) while providing the lowest tax rate since before World War II.

    3.No business of any size, from a Fortune 500 to a mom and pop shop to a freelancer living job to job, will pay more than 15% of their business income in taxes. This lower rate makes corporate inversions unnecessary by making America’s tax rate one of the best in the world.

    4.No family will have to pay the death tax. You earned and saved that money for your family, not the government. You paid taxes on it when you earned it."



    As you can see, Trump’s tax plan keeps alive the socialist friendly and big government tax calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other lawfully earned incomes which is the worm at the root of the tree that allows unequal taxation and our Washington Establishment to inflict countless miseries upon America’s labor, businesses and investors.


    The fact is, Donald Trump’s tax plan keeps alive a federal tax calculated from incomes, allows Washington’s elites to continue to define what is and what is not “taxable” income, and in turn allows perfidious manipulations in which winners and losers can be determined by the stroke of Congress’ pen.


    Trump’s tax plan also allows our federal government to continue to intrude into our personal lives and financial affairs; keeps alive the power to audit and harass private individuals and business owners at will who are viewed as political opponents; and continues the needless waste of billions of dollars to keep records and reports to carry out his plan, not to mention the loss of precious man hours wasted in this effort.

    And the above does not even take into account that Trump’s tax reform plan is unequal taxation in that the most productive hard working citizens in our nation’s inner cities, some of whom work two jobs to improve their station in life are compelled to contribute more in taxes to the federal government than the least productive, many of whom receive welfare benefits and are too lazy to improve their station in life.

    But this is what Trump’s socialist friendly, big government tax proposal is about ___ from each according to their ability, to each according to their need. Donald Trump’s tax reform is nothing more than the same old well-dressed pig ___ a redistribution of wealth and maintaining the federal government’s iron fist around the necks of the American People which is accomplished with a federal tax calculated from profits, gains, salaries, wages and other lawfully earned incomes.

    Real tax reform begins with the following 32 words found in the "Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment":

    “SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


    JWK



    “Honest money and honest taxation, the Key to America’s future Prosperity“ ___ from “Prosperity Restored by the State Rate Tax Plan”, no longer in print.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Because I oppose all income and property taxes because they are not only socialist, but authoritarian as well, the Trump Tax Plan while as good as any offered by any candidate except Mike Huckabee who supports the FairTax as do I, is in fact a revision of the income tax and a continuation though in a better fashion of the Authoritarian Socialist Income Tax. The income tax was, passed in 1913 by Democrats to provide revenue to cover the shortfalls in revenue caused by the same Democrats in 1913 who as free trade traitors reduced tariff rates on imported goods who said "ooops, we won't have enough money now to run the government, so lets change the Constitution to help foreign businesses at the expense of our own, become Authoritarian Socialists and force people to pay a mandated income tax."

    Until we change to a retail sales tax on new goods and services, with or without a Rebate, with or without exemptions for essentials, we are an Authoritarian Socialist nation as are all states with income and property taxes.

    FairTax Act of 2015: HR 25 in the US House of Representatives and S 155 in the US Senate.
    Last edited by Judy; 01-25-2016 at 10:24 AM.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Judy,

    You have fallen for an establishment concocted tax reform and are too thick headed to open your eyes to see it.

    Real tax reform begins with the following 32 words as found in the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment:

    “SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


    JWK


    Are we really to believe the founder of fairtax.org., Leo E. Linbeck Jr. and Herman Cain, both former ringleaders of the federal reserve banking cartel which plunders our national treasury?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    I've supported a retail national sales tax on new goods and services to replace the income tax for over 40 years and wrote one of the first papers on it in 1971, 45 years ago.

    The FairTax is a general tax and not subject to apportionment under the US Constitution.

    Why don't you tell everyone what you want to do? Why hide it behind a pretension of supporting the Constitution? Why don't you tell people you want to pay for the federal government through direct instead of general taxes, triggering federal apportionment and state imposed mandated property and real estate taxes that include liens and foreclosures, the outright theft of homes and businesses by government over property taxes they can't afford or are unwilling to pay?
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  5. #5
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    I've supported a retail national sales tax on new goods and services to replace the income tax for over 40 years and wrote one of the first papers on it in 1971, 45 years ago.

    The FairTax is a general tax and not subject to apportionment under the US Constitution.

    Why don't you tell everyone what you want to do? Why hide it behind a pretension of supporting the Constitution? Why don't you tell people you want to pay for the federal government through direct instead of general taxes, triggering federal apportionment and state imposed mandated property and real estate taxes that include liens and foreclosures, the outright theft of homes and businesses by government over property taxes they can't afford or are unwilling to pay?
    A national sales tax [a tax unknown to our founding fathers] which would be Congress primary means to fill the national treasury, would violate the very intentions for which the rule of apportionment was adopted, just like the current tax calculated from incomes violates the rule of apportionment.

    Our founding fathers agreed that if Congress ever needed to lay a general tax among the states, each State's share would be proportionately equal to its representation in Congress. But don't take my word for it, let our founders speak for themselves!

    Pinckney addressing the S.C. ratification convention with regard to the rule of apportionment :

    “With regard to the general government imposing internal taxes upon us, he contended that it was absolutely necessary they should have such a power: requisitions had been in vain tried every year since the ratification of the old Confederation, and not a single state had paid the quota required of her. The general government could not abuse this power, and favor one state and oppress another, as each state was to be taxed only in proportion to its representation.” 4 Elliot‘s, S.C., 305-6

    And see:
    “The proportion of taxes are fixed by the number of inhabitants, and not regulated by the extent of the territory, or fertility of soil”3 Elliot’s, 243,“Each state will know, from its population, its proportion of any general tax” 3 Elliot’s, 244 ___ Mr. George Nicholas, during the ratification debates of our Constitution.

    Mr. Madison goes on to remark about Congress’s “general power of taxation” that, "they will be limited to fix the proportion of each State, and they must raise it in the most convenient and satisfactory manner to the public."3 Elliot, 255

    And if there is any confusion about the rule of apportionment intentionally designed to insure that the people of each state are to be taxed proportionately equal to their representation in Congress, Mr. PENDLETON says:

    “The apportionment of representation and taxation by the same scale is just; it removes the objection, that, while Virginia paid one sixth part of the expenses of the Union, she had no more weight in public counsels than Delaware, which paid but a very small portion”3 Elliot’s 41




    As to what I support, I have been crystal clear on what I support which is the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment:


    “SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay ``any`` tax or burden calculated from profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.


    NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s ORIGINAL TAX PLAN as they intended it to operate! They would also end the failed experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned "incomes" which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling their labor!


    "SECTION 2. Congress ought not raise money by borrowing, but when the money arising from imposts duties and excise taxes are insufficient to meet the public exigencies, and Congress has raised money by borrowing during the course of a fiscal year, Congress shall then lay a direct tax at the beginning of the next fiscal year for an amount sufficient to extinguish the preceding fiscal year's deficit, and apply the revenue so raised to extinguishing said deficit."


    NOTE: Congress is to raise its primary revenue from imposts and duties, [taxes at our water’s edge], and may also lay miscellaneous internal excise taxes on specifically chosen articles of consumption. But if Congress borrows and spends more than is brought in from imposts, duties and miscellaneous excise taxes during the course of a fiscal year, then, and only then, is the apportioned tax to be laid.


    "SECTION 3. When Congress is required to lay a direct tax in accordance with Section 1 of this Article, the Secretary of the United States Treasury shall, in a timely manner, calculate each State's apportioned share of the total sum being raised by dividing its total population size by the total population of the united states and multiplying that figure by the total being raised by Congress, and then provide the various State Congressional Delegations with a Bill notifying their State’s Executive and Legislature of its share of the total tax being collected and a final date by which said tax shall be paid into the United States Treasury."


    NOTE: our founder’s fair share formula to extinguish an annual deficit would be:


    States’ population

    ---------------------------- X SUM TO BE RAISED = STATE’S FAIR SHARE

    Total U.S. Population


    The above formula, as intended by our founding fathers, is to insure that those states who contribute the lion’s share of the tax are guaranteed a representation in Congress proportionately equal to their contribution, i.e., representation with a proportional financial obligation!



    Note also that each State’s number or Representatives, under our Constitution is determined by the rule of apportionment:


    State`s Pop.
    ------------------- X House size (435) = State`s No. of Representatives
    U.S. Pop.



    "SECTION 4. Each State shall be free to assume and pay its quota of the direct tax into the United States Treasury by a final date set by Congress, but if any State shall refuse or neglect to pay its quota, then Congress shall send forth its officers to assess and levy such State's proportion against the real property within the State with interest thereon at the rate of ((?)) per cent per annum, and against the individual owners of the taxable property. Provision shall be made for a 15% discount for those States paying their share by ((?))of the fiscal year in which the tax is laid, and a 10% discount for States paying by the final date set by Congress, such discount being to defray the States' cost of collection."


    NOTE: This section respects the Tenth Amendment and allows each state to raise its share in its own chosen way in a time period set by Congress, but also allows the federal government to enter a state and collect the tax if a state is delinquent in meeting its obligation.


    "SECTION 5. This Amendment to the Constitution, when ratified by the required number of States, shall take effect no later than (?) years after the required number of States have ratified it.


    JWK


    “…..with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow-citizens—a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities“. Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address

  6. #6
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    A national sales tax [a tax unknown to our founding fathers] which would be Congress primary means to fill the national treasury, would violate the very intentions for which the rule of apportionment was adopted, just like the current tax calculated from incomes violates the rule of apportionment.
    A sales tax is an excise tax no different than a tariff, so the Founders were very familiar with the object of taxing goods and services, they even provided for it specifically through their mention of tariffs, imposts, duties and excises as general taxes directly in the Constitution. General taxes are not subject to apportionment because they are not direct taxes.

    Direct taxes are income taxes and taxes on profits by the person who pays it, rather than taxes on goods and services. Property and real estate taxes are direct taxes.

    Direct Tax:

    A tax that is paid directly by an individual or organization to the imposing entity. A taxpayer pays a direct tax to a government for different purposes, including real property tax, personal property tax, income tax or taxes on assets.
    Direct Tax Definition | Investopedia
    www.investopedia.com/terms/d/directtax.asp
    Sales taxes are not direct taxes and therefore are not subject to apportionment under the US Constitution.

    If you support apportionment, then you support direct taxes which are income taxes, real property tax, personal property tax, inventory tax, earnings taxes, taxes on assets, and the whole ball of Socialist Tax Tyranny Wax most Republicans despise, because of the cost, the expense, the mandates, the authoritarianism, the invasion of privacy, the manipulation, the corruption, the adverse impacts on lives, livelihoods, economy, jobs, and business, not to mention the fact that they never pay the bills of the cost, damage and destruction they cause. The Founders knew this which is why normal government was to be paid for with general taxes like taxes on goods and services, not direct taxes on income, profit or property, leaving direct taxes for emergency situations to avoid borrowing or debt while taking care of the crisis.
    Last edited by Judy; 01-25-2016 at 05:48 PM.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member johnwk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    A sales tax is an excise tax no different than a tariff,.
    Judy,

    A tariff is an external tax while an excise tax is an inland tax.

    I appreciate you unsubstantiated opinion but an across the board "sales tax" on the purchase of articles of consumption is a tax unknown to our founding fathers. Excise taxes were imposed by our founders upon specifically selected articles, and each article after it was specifically selected, the appropriate amount of tax was imposed on the article. Your "national sales tax" is something unknown to our founders, but if I am in error, I'm sure you will provide the documentation showing when our founder imposed a "national sales tax" without identifying each specific article, and placing a specific amount of tax on each article selected. An excise imposed upon a particular article of consumption, such as gasoline, is far different from an across the board tax on the sale of all manufactured goods.

    Additionally, and more importantly, is the fact that a national sales tax as Congress' primary means to fill the national treasury would, if adopted, violate the very purpose of apportionment. I have provided the documentation. Why do you ignore it?

    Now, let us get back to the subject of the thread which is Donald Trump’s tax plan is socialist and big government friendly


    JWK
    Last edited by johnwk; 01-25-2016 at 08:53 PM.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwk View Post
    Judy,

    A tariff is an external tax while an excise tax is an inland tax.

    I appreciate you unsubstantiated opinion but an across the board "sales tax" on the purchase of articles of consumption is a tax unknown to our founding fathers. Excise taxes were imposed by our founders upon specifically selected articles, and each article after it was specifically selected, the appropriate amount of tax was imposed on the article. Your "national sales tax" is something unknown to our founders, but if I am in error, I'm sure you will provide the documentation showing when our founder imposed a "national sales tax" without identifying each specific article, and placing a specific amount of tax on each article selected. An excise imposed upon a particular article of consumption, such as gasoline, is far different from an across the board tax on the sale of all manufactured goods.

    Additionally, and more importantly, is the fact that a national sales tax as Congress' primary means to fill the national treasury would, if adopted, violate the very purpose of apportionment. I have provided the documentation. Why do you ignore it?

    Now, let us get back to the subject of the thread which is Donald Trump’s tax plan is socialist and big government friendly


    JWK
    All income based tax plans are socialist and big government friendly. Welcome to America for the past 103 years!
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  9. #9
    Senior Member ReformUSA2012's Avatar
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    Well I think we can at least agree the current system is an utter disaster and be it FairTax, FlatTax, or any other system including Trumps tax plan is far better then what we currently have. What I like also about Trumps plan is it looks to eliminate those getting *refunds* that never paid taxes in the first place along with numerous other things. The current system is a disaster and while I'd love to find the perfect system its doubtful will get such passed. I'd love to do away with the taxman going after income on workers and local business's instead moving towards retail tax system with putting back import duties and tariffs on imports on anything but raw materials. Import a TV or a car from a foreign country and their should be a considerable import duty or tariff due before the cargo is even allowed into US waters. Promote American made products before foreign made ones. Of course this would also need to lower the budget somewhat but we have so much waste all around.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReformUSA2012 View Post
    Well I think we can at least agree the current system is an utter disaster and be it FairTax, FlatTax, or any other system including Trumps tax plan is far better then what we currently have. What I like also about Trumps plan is it looks to eliminate those getting *refunds* that never paid taxes in the first place along with numerous other things. The current system is a disaster and while I'd love to find the perfect system its doubtful will get such passed. I'd love to do away with the taxman going after income on workers and local business's instead moving towards retail tax system with putting back import duties and tariffs on imports on anything but raw materials. Import a TV or a car from a foreign country and their should be a considerable import duty or tariff due before the cargo is even allowed into US waters. Promote American made products before foreign made ones. Of course this would also need to lower the budget somewhat but we have so much waste all around.
    Of all the tax plans proposed by the candidates so far, Trump's is the best. No doubt about it.
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