Thread: Economic collapse w/out illegals?

If they're coming here because they're hard working people, who just want to better themselves (so they claim),

I wish I believed they were coming here to work. I don't.

Ok then; Bring on the collapse. g

I see all kinds of them wandering around the stores here at all hours. Some harass people in parking lots begging for money to get to various destinations. Seems to me if they were working, they couldn't be wandering around.

Originally Posted by naturalglenn

Ok then; Bring on the collapse. g

I'm w/glenn on this one, "JUST BRING IT!"

IMPEACHMENT NOW!!!!!

Hey, interesting topic. After reading it though, I had to do some research because I had the same curiosity. No one here gave you facts, they just told you "oh they claim this, they say that" and yet you are conformed with that

Wow, thank you all very much for your answers to my question! Those are some excellent points that I will need to keep in mind the next time I hear them spewing their garbage.

Well, I found this article that explains how undocumented workers create a surplus in the SSA, the total was 519 BILLIONS by the end of 2005. The article also says that if the SSA was to pay back what is due to uncocumented people, their fund would DRY UP! Are undocumented immigrants needed??? Well, they are needed, but do we have to keep them undocumented? The right thing to do morally would be to legalize them, because someone said here that he/she didn't get a job at a Walmart, well, THOSE are not the jobs we are talking about HONEY, the jobs Americans WON'T do are those of collectin harvest and farmer work, when they didn't give you that job, did you try getting a job milking a cow for 3 dollars an hour or less? OF COURSE NOT!!! Because you are an American!!! But if those cows are not milked, then YOUR American kids would not have a cup of milke to drink for breakfast each day!!!! GOSH!! Is it so hard? Plus, better Medicaid without illegals? YEAH RIGHT! Let's say the SSA gets 100 bucks a year of surplus because of illegal aliens, illegals don't claim that money, so the SSA can spend it in their ONLY beneficiaries, AMERICANS! if those illegals were deported, then those 100 bucks extra are GONE, less money for the SSA would make better services???? HOW? Well, let me just give you the link, because it's really informative with links to the GAO reports, (same report someone mentioned before but did not provide a link to ) and to other reliable sources. Here it is:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2 ... stash.html

P.S.: Let see if this makes you understand that you are not paying for illegal alien's expenses! In the contrary, they are making YOUR public services better. Have a lovely day.

-Nick

IMPEACHMENT NOW!!

Right On, Rockfish!!



The US Economy will not collapse from deporting illegal aliens.

The US Economy will collapse UNLESS we deport illegal aliens.

The contribution most illegal aliens make is negative, not positve, for the US Economy. More people, lower wages, less taxes, less expendable income, no money, no savings....what they accummulate they rob from an American Citizen so now the American Citizen is without.

It's a roadmap to a third world economy that enriches the top elite, and I mean very very very top elite....a couple of thousand at most....and harms every one else with every alien that enters the US in violation of the pre-2004 immigration limits. Every. Single. Time.

Hey Nick,
The article you cite claims $6 billion a year into Soc. Sec. from 'undocumented' workers, but I don't see anywhere it computes the COSTS of those same workers.

Illegal aliens cost California billions

By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
12/7/2004

Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California — which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide — $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday.

Thats JUST California, Nick. There's 49 more states. Should I keep going?

In August(2004), a similar study by the Center for Immigration Studies in Washington, said U.S. households headed by illegal aliens used $26.3 billion in government services during 2002, but paid $16 billion in taxes, an annual cost to taxpayers of $10 billion.

That's $10 BILLION, Nick. In 2002. You still proud of that Soc.Sec. surplus, or are the rest of these numbers starting to sink in to you.

In 2003,

Illegal aliens displaced American workers at a cost in excess of $133 billion dollars last year according to Harvard Professor George Borjas.

...and...

Annually, 75 percent of drugs arrive from Mexico at a net cost of $120 billion hard currency that leaves our country for good. In addition, our tax dollars pay $80 billion for the War on Drugs each year.

...and...

Over 300,000 women annually arrive pregnant and drop them on U.S. soil. You pay food, housing, medical and schooling for them to age 18 PLUS their mother. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, average annual cost per child K-12 is $7,161.00 and exceeds $109 billion annually per cycle of anchor babies.

And Nick, the list goes on and on and on. You said something in your post about doing some research? What do you want me to research next? If I can find all this in 5 minutes, imagine what I can do if I really TRY!

From the great state of Alabama. I am working vigorously to get Mo Brooks elected Lt. Governer 2006. In recent straw polls he is getting between 96-97% of the vote.

1. The Problem. "Illegal aliens in Alabama kill too many Americans, cost Alabama taxpayers an estimated $1,800 in taxes per year per illegal alien family, take jobs from Alabamians, cause car wrecks without the insurance needed to compensate wreck victims, demand and receive free emergency room health care at taxpayer expense, and hurt public education by overcrowding our schools and diverting education resources to expensive bilingual education. Alabama must act before even more damage is done.

http://www.mobrookscampaign.com/News_Re ... Aliens.doc

RESOLUTION OF THE MADISON COUNTY COMMISSION
(Movant: Madison County Commissioner Mo Brooks)

WHEREAS, the Immigration and Naturalization Service ("INS") estimates that, between 1996 and 2000, the Alabama's illegal alien population increased by 500% and, "since 1992, the number of illegal aliens living in the United States has grown from approximately 3.2 million to between 6.5 million and 11 million,"
WHEREAS, as of "2003, over 56,000 noncitizens" were incarcerated in state prisons throughout the United States and "noncitizens accounted for over 10% of the prison populations in California, New York and Arizona," thus costing American taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars in incarceration costs, decreasing tax monies for other, needed government programs and increasing demand for tax increases that further harm American families; and
WHEREAS, "as of February 2005, 119 noncitizens from 31 nations were on state death row," thus reflecting that many Americans have been murdered and are victims of most heinous crimes committed by aliens; and
WHEREAS, illegal aliens cause crime and participate in organized crime that victimize Alabama citizens, increase Alabama's incarceration costs, and thereby increase pressure for tax increases; and
WHEREAS, according to the INS, "the average amnestied illegal alien has only a 7th grade education and an annual salary of less than $9,000 after being in the United States for 10 years", and
WHEREAS, "any illegal alien who has a child in the U.S. becomes eligible for Aid to Families for Dependent Children (AFDC) regardless of whether the parent becomes a legal resident," thus increasing the tax burden on Americans and further decreasing America families' disposable income and standard of living, and
WHEREAS, in 2005 in Madison County, Alabama, at least five Americans were killed by illegal aliens and, in one gruesome incident, an already-wounded Huntsville Police Officer was executed by an illegal alien;

SOURCES
Alabama Policy Institute, Michael Ciamarra, vice-president, July 14, 2005, "States Must Require Congress to Act: Pass Resolutions Calling on Congress to Compensate for Medical Care for Illegals"
Alabama Policy Institute, "Guide to the Issues: Illegal Immigration"
Medellin v. Dretke, 544 U.S. _____, 2005, dissenting opinion of U.S. Supreme Court Justice O'Connor
Medellin v. Dretke, 544 U.S. _____, 2005, dissenting opinion of U.S. Supreme Court Justice O'Connor
By way of but one example, on 10/19/05 an illegal alien was arrested in Madison County, Alabama with $300,000 worth of crystal methamphetamine. Huntsville Times, 10/20/05, "Meth Worth $300,000 Seized; Illegal Alien Held"
Alabama Policy Institute, "Guide to the Issues: Illegal Immigration"
Alabama Policy Institute, "Guide to the Issues: Illegal Immigration"
Huntsville Times, 8/31/05, "Policy Charge Suspect in City Officer's Slaying"

WHEREAS, a study by the University of Florida Economics Department found that each illegal alien family costs state taxpayers roughly $1,800 in net tax losses (which have to be offset by higher taxes on or reduced services to state citizens); and
WHEREAS, Alabama has more important demands on tax receipts than illegal alien subsidies; and
WHEREAS, illegal aliens take Alabama jobs by working at substandard labor rates, by working "off the books", and by working without health insurance; and
WHEREAS, "a study by Harvard economist George Borjas shows that cheap immigrant labor has reducted by 7.4% the wages of American workers performing low-skilled jobs [and] a report by the Center for Immigration Studies concludes that 'immigration may reduce the wages of the average [American] in a low-skilled occupation by … $1,915 per year,"
WHEREAS, Alabama's blue-collar work force is under duress because manufacturing jobs have been and are being lost to cheap overseas labor and, if illegal aliens are permitted to dominate construction trades and other blue-collar industries, then Alabama's blue-collar workers will increasingly face unemployment, low-wage employment, poverty, and welfare; and
WHEREAS, under normal circumstances, today's entry-level brick-layers, framers, roofers and the like evolve into tomorrow's construction trade business owners, and illegal aliens destroy this evolution by retarding entry-level employment in these trades by Americans; and
WHEREAS, illegal aliens too often can not read English, do not understand our traffic signs or laws, are bewildered by our roads and driving customs, cause wrecks that kill and injure people, and drive without insurance, thus forcing wreck victims into financial disaster and bankruptcy; and
WHEREAS, in Huntsville in 2005, an illegal alien killed four people via vehicular homicide: a grandmother, a mother, a granddaughter and a friend of the mother, and these four people would be alive today but for illegal aliens; and
WHEREAS, in 2003, "more than 11 million aliens [in America] were uninsured" and the "Institute of Medicine [estimates] that the national total spent for uncompensated care [in America] in general exceeds $35 billion a year,"

SOURCES
Orlando Sentinel, 10/14/05, "Immigration Costs More than Thought"
Washington Times, 12/2/05, "Illegals Hurt America", by Congressman John Hostettler, Indiana, and Congressman Lamar Smith, Texas
Alabama Policy Institute, "Guide to the Issues: Immigration Reform": "Studies have shown that form 1980 to 198 the wages of high school dropouts relate to the wages of college graduates fell by 10 percentage points. [Harvard] economist George Borjas has calculated that approximately 1/3 of this decline can be attributed to immigration. As the wages available to unskilled natives decline, the welfare participation rate of unskilled natives can reasonably be expected to increase in turn."
Alabama Policy Institute, Michael Ciamarra, vice-president, July 14, 2005, "States Must Require Congress to Act: Pass Resolutions Calling on Congress to Compensate for Medical Care for Illegals"
http://www.mobrookscampaign.com/News_Re ... -19-05.doc

Any questions Nick?

I don't know who you are Nick, but it appears you are trying to confuse the issue. Yes, we can handle the expected "collapse" and yes, we are paying the bills with our tax money for medical, schools, and every other freebie handout that illegals take and don't replace. If you don't understand this, let one of use walk you through the day of an "undocumented"...wait...ILLEGAL and show you how they take and don't replace.

My advice Nick is that you go back to whatever little corner you came from and leave the running to America to true Patriots. By the way Nick, what have you done for your country lately???...