Thread: If Obamacare passes... so does amnesty

I would have to read the bill itself to see if the Judge is blowing right wing smoke or whether any of his points are valid.

Yes you might need to all 2400 pages of it ...but then I doubt many of our so called politicians have either....and there is where the problem begins

Kathyet

Bettybb wrote:

How about vacinations. We are required to go and puchase medical services to have our kids vaccinated.

How about auto emissions. Here in CA we are required to take our cars to private companies and have the emission levels checked.

How about flood insurance. We are required to buy it by government decree here in CA.

How about kid obtaining a drivers license? Here in CA kids have to, by law, take a private drivers ed course before they can apply for a license.

and on... and on... and on..

MW wrote

The privileges of democracy, including individual freedoms, must be enjoyed in ways that do not interfere with or create risks for others. Immunization provides protection not only to the person immunized, but for many diseases, also to the people with whom the immunized person comes in contact. Requiring immunization to stop the spread of disease is not even closely related to the requirement that all individuals be forced to purchase health insurance from private industry. Not requiring immunization puts everyones health at risk, not just the individual. In a nutshell, immunization is necessary to protect society as a whole. Individual health care choices should be left to the individual because it does not impact society as a whole, only the individual.

1. Not purchasing health insurance puts everyone at risk for increased illness, as transmittable diseases go untreated endangering society as a whole.
2. Not purchasing health insurance means the taxpayer has to pick up the increased cost of treating people who get seriously ill because they do not get preventive care, hurting everyone’s financial condition and the economy as a whole and endangering society as a whole.

MW wrote

Vehicle emissions also impact the health of everyone, not just the individual. Regardless, you are not required by law to operate a motor vehicle. Emission testing is not required for non-drivers.

True not everyone has to drive, but the social reality, is if you do not, you basically cannot function in society… so in effect , it is mandatory. But the reason for it, is to decrease global warming which affects society as a whole, as well as people’s health, which affects society as a whole.

MW wrote

Flood insurance requirements are made by local government, not federal. Everyone in the country is not required to purchase flood insurance. If you decide to reside in a flood zone, it's your choice.

I am not sure that is correct. I believe it is the National Flood Insurance Agency that requires it.

MW wrote

Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege, not a right. If the rules are not acceptable to the individual, they don't have to apply for a license or drive.

True not everyone has to drive, but the social reality, is if you do not, you basically cannot function in society… so in effect , it is mandatory.


MW wrote

All your examples are non-arguments.

No, my arguments are right on point and are valid.


Bettybb wrote:

The answer to your question is Medicare.

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MW wrote

Wrong again, Bettybb. Medicare is not private insurance. Sorry, you are wrong. Everyone must contribute taxes to pay for it, and then use private doctors.

Bettybb wrote:

Bush Jr is probably the worst President of this generation and maybe of all time.

MW wrote

I wouldn't be so sure of that. I tend to agree with Miguelina, Carter was the worst President of this generation. Besides that, Obama's term is far from complete.

Carter is the only President to obtain a peace accord in the middle east and for that reason alone he cannot be considered the worst. Obama, even though I disapprove of how he did it, did stop the world economic collapse, and for that alone, he cannot be considered the worst.

Bettybb wrote:

You have not answered my questions:

Are you saying that the government has no right to say that we cannot purchase an abortion?

Are you saying the government has no right to say we may not buy crack cocaine?

Are you saying the government has no right to say we cannot pucharse child sex?

[/quote]

MW wrote

The above questions are not related to the question of government requiring individuals to purchase health insurance from private industry.

Yes, they are relevant because you stated that the government has no right to say what we can and cannot purchase from private companies. So….how do you justify that stance, which means everyone should have the right to purchase child sex, cocaine, an abortion etc.

Kathynet

The health care reform bill itself does not change current law which does not allow taxpayer funded abortions. That whole executive order thing to confirm the obvious was just a face saving tacitic so the anti freedom of choose advocates could switch their votes.

Kathynet wrote

PS On a side note I need to say that I have to consider myself pro-choice...I firmly believe a women needs to have the right to choose and that is between her and her doctor not some third party not involved in her life......but then I firmly believe in freedom of choice for everything....

[/quote]

^ 5. I too am for freedom of choice. Did you know that countries with universal health care have far few abortions? Why? Because women can get contraceptives.

Again 2400 pages which has become law.....to do what about 20 pages would do, except with a few pages they wouldn't have as much control over all our lives. Oh yes it is control of our lives, our pocketbooks, and our freedoms ...control by the Federal Government over all our lives from the Cradle to the Grave.

Stupid Stupak needed an excuse to vote for it..now the questions is, is he and his gang of what was it 5 really that stupid!!!!

I am glad you think this HC thing is wonderful..and I hope you sincerely believe this is a good thing. A very small part of me hopes your right..but naive I am not. Trust for the Government controlling my life I do not want or hope for ...

So I have to add, is it naivete or is it something else that makes you sound like your glad to see the destruction of our Country and Constitutional principles it stands for unfolding in front of your eyes...
...then again you may or may not be not from this country.


Kathyet

kathyet wrote

Again 2400 pages which has become law.....to do what about 20 pages would do, except with a few pages they wouldn't have as much control over all our lives. Oh yes it is control of our lives, our pocketbooks, and our freedoms ...control by the Federal Government over all our lives from the Cradle to the Grave.

[/quote]

When Canada created a universal healht care system it took all of 14 pages! What we have are politicians and special interests gone amok.


kathyet wrote

Stupid Stupak needed an excuse to vote for it..now the questions is, is he and his gang of what was it 5 really that stupid!!!!

Hey, they had taken a very public stand, so they had to save face somehow. Most of the electorate don't follow the details so they have no clue that the executive order thing is just window dressing.

kathyet wrote

I am glad you think this HC thing is wonderful..and I hope you sincerely believe this is a good thing. A very small part of me hopes your right..but naive I am not. Trust for the Government controlling my life I do not want or hope for ...

I really do think it is going to be better than what we have now.
1. People with pre existing conditions will be covered now.
2. Insurance companies will not be able to drop people from coverage when they get sick.
3. There is going to competition between insurance companies across state lines which should decrease cost.
4. There is a provision for one non profit insurance group, which should help keep the greedy private insurance companie in check.
5. We put a stop to the freeloaders who can afford to buy insurance but don't do so, knowing full well if they get sick, or have an accident, after they use up their resources, the taxpayer will pay for their treatment.

kathyet wrote

So I have to add, is it naivete or is it something else that makes you sound like your glad to see the destruction of our Country and Constitutional principles it stands for unfolding in front of your eyes...
...then again you may or may not be not from this country.

Yep, I am an American. Born in Kentucky. But I have lived in other countries with universal health care and I can really say in all honesty, that their systems were better than what we have here right now. I do not see how any constitutional principles are being violated. What I do see is a lot fear mongering among the Repub elite who are acting, not in the interest of regular folk, but for the greedy insurance companies. I was in Canada when they went to a public system and there was the same hysteria as we are seeing now here. Within 2 years it had died out, and now over 80% of Canadian like their system. Yet, because we have not gone to a public option, I don't think the benefits will be as great, or seen as fast. But it is definately better than what we have now.

Bettybb,

If a liberal politician told you the moon was blue, I honestly think you would believe it to be fact. I'm through arguing with you because I've come to the conclusion that you wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the behind. You've been proven wrong over and over again in this thread but absolutely refuse to accept the truth and continuously offer up empty arguments that are not based on fact or reality. Furthermore, you're a 'cherry picker' that refuses to see the whole picture for what it is.

I think Kathyet is right, you definitely seem to be one of those folks that think it's Uncle Sam's job to take care of you and your neighbor.

I will give the Mexican people kudos...they are a very very proud people... Proud to be Mexican...not American and this WILL NEVER CHANGE...no matter what the laws are.

I could post 100's of nasty videos of pro AmNasty and supposed Apaio abuse. But as we have seen...our government cares not for what our laws are or in protecting America. WHY? These are my thoughts: (like it really matters...)

1. I can only reason that the New World Order for control is using the immigration tactic to further incite, separate and bring to our knees the American people... as we see many on both sides of the issues and the marches. This horrific hideous covert operation by government far surpasses the in-your-face of the Reconquista that is bringing in 1 to 2 million more illegal "solders" each year to support this WAR. We help fight internal wars all over the world while ignoring the ones here. If this continues to be ignored the results could be catastrophic. They went after the little Branch Davidians but ignore this situation? That's crazy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuNNXcnnD70

2. We also see that it is getting to a boiling point. That violence is threatened from both sides. It makes me sick and queasy just watching the videos. Law informed cannot do its duty even under a normal traffic stop because of supposed "racial profiling." The Mexicans feel that not only are they above the boarder law but that they can brake any law and be absolved because they are illegal. A claim of national sovereignty to another Nation? The insanity reasoning is beyond me and I am looking for help to figure at what is going on.

3. It is not illegal to promote change to law. Their are many laws that people want changed. Marijuana and illegal entrapment are notable. But I think it is still against the law to threaten violence. These "marches" of illegals are not to promote change in laws...it is to promote violence and hate against America and her people. To educate illegals and teach how to brake more laws to live in America to usurper ever way they can to disrupt the peace and the finances of America.

This is twilight zone to me. While the news media...most notably Lou "the traitor" Dobbs promotes peace and a path to citizenship. The illegal movement is not interested in peace and a path to anything but the destruction of America and the Reconquista.

Well...I could drown on and on... What am I attempting to say here? It is no longer a matter of illegals and deportation. They have declared war on America and her people. Any path to citizenship will only be used to further their War agenda...if it is used at all. I think many feel that citizenship is simply a "cop out" and they ware being an illegal as a badge of honer to their Mexican Nation. I can understand. I use to be a proud American.

This will absolutely never change. Why? Because that is how it has always been. The war never ended. Wars never end. We may have overpowered the Mexicans but the war never ended for them.

I cannot say with certainty that their is no Mexican true Americans? But I have lived and worked around them most of my adult life and even the peaceful ones still want their country back.

I guess I am saying that something needs to be done to appose the Reconquista and its agenda. I noticed that at those marches that not "ONE" government representative shows up to speak. No Giraldo the traitor or any news cameras. Just a few citizens filming and I see Numbers tried their best.

This is not a joke and the new HR order signed into law only made it that much worse. Obviously the immigration will come on line in full force soon. But I think that the question of divided and violent interests of the illegals must also be addressed. There are two groups now...how do you distinguish between the two? And how can we keep allowing marches promoting take over under the guise of peaceful immigration law change?

I think these marches should clarify what they promote in the application...legal immigration or the Reconquista war effort. And if it is peace...than there should be no talk of American take over or American Flag desecration's. Now seriously...is that to much to ask? Do they have rallies like this in Mexico?

I think this nice lady said it very clearly what is the difference in thinking:

March For America - Phoenix / No Amnesty Rally; Clip 9:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vxzmk0F ... re=related

It is easy to understand why they side lined this issue before the HR vote.

Chiming in here (I lurk more than post) but I just had to step in... I lived in England for 2 years, gave birth to my first son there. I'm sorry but the NHS, in my opinion, stunk. I have a lot of stories to tell but will save it.

One of the reasons for us moving back was for better health care and a better living. Since Obama took office, we got the worse tax return ever this year and now we fear it's only going to get worse with this bill (we are your normal middle-class family). Eventually the funding for Obamacare will probably run out, then even the lower income families will get hit with more taxes. This bill is bad news...done about all wrong.

Okay back to lurking now...

Hi JenniferB. Thank you for posting, and for telling us about your experience in England with the NHS. Americans will begin to realize what having a board determine what can, and what cannot be allowed in services and medications, will be about. Rationing, and other negative outcomes will surely be the result.

I listened to one attorney general say today, that there is no way states can take on more people in large numbers for medicaid. They cannot sustain the numbers that they currently have. Plus, some people with private insurance will drop it for medicaid and then there are more individuals to contend with for care. What a tsunami. Give amnesty, and it becomes impossible to maintain any type of quality health care, the system will be overrun. When you have insurance, you are more likely to make more doctor visits. Plus, the border is a sieve, and illegal aliens will keep crossing, and crossing, and say that they have been here, and they will be given amnesty. Every illegal alien equals another Democrat voter. Why would they want to stop that?

Let other Americans know about the impact of amnesty to the United States, and to jobs, wages, health care, taxes, etc.

Psalm 91

I enjoyed your post JenniferB.