Thread: Immigration reform that should please everyone!

Rmad123,

You are trying to sell the guest worker program. We cannot send the message that if you break into America buy you can sport 5k and we cant find any evidence of other crimes you will be OK and allowed to stay.

That kind of thinking is what got us into this situation.

If we secure our borders, go after employers to remove the jobs for illegals, remove all of the extensive benefits being handed out to illegals, and allow our local police to put illegals into the deportation process when caught driving without a license, driving drunk, or committing worse crimes then our illegal alien population will begin to shrink instead of grow.

Attrition Deportation. It will save us money in the long run. It will save us money on the tax drain. It's not extreme.

Actually, it is the way our existing laws are already debated, voted on, and in place.

We cannot reward illegal aliens that have shown no respect for our laws and citizens to stay.

We need large numbers of them auto-repatriating / migrating as migrants do right back to their OWN nation with a story about how coming to America illegally did not pay off.

Your way, their crimes paid. Crime should not pay. Sure there will be some cost and sure their will be some pain, but that is not our fault. We did not create this situation.

W

If Rmad123's six point plan (see above) were the main elements of immigration reform legislation to be voted upon by the US House and US Senate, such immigration reform legislation should be rejected by both the House and the Senate due to its amnesty feature.

What I need to do is a write up on ALIPAC's 4 point platform for us to cite in the future.

W

The 1986 amnesty for illegal aliens was promoted as a one-time permanent remedy for the illegal immigration situation and it was said, at that time, to be the amnesty to end all amnesties and another would never be needed. Obviously, not only did it not work, it exacerbated the situation by sending the message that illegal immigration will eventually pay off. An amnesty today would likely have the same results. Even if the politicians promise strict border security and workplace enforcement concurrent with an amnesty, there is no guarantee that those will be implemented or successful. A favorite trick of politicians is to pass a law that sounds good and then either not fund the enforcement or discourage the enforcement or put such incompetent people in charge that any enforcement will never actually materialize. If illegal immigration is to be ended, then the magnets drawing them here have to be eliminated and the potential of an eventual amnesty is one of those magnets.

Although I know not many here would agree with me, I do see the Tancredo guest worker plan as maybe a viable compromise. That plan doesn't grant amnesty, requires that any workers apply from their home countries to work (so those already here and wanting to work legally would have to go home first), it doesn't allow family members to come with the worker, and the worker couldn't stay longer than 2 years (I think 2, maybe it's one year). Most importantly, it would be harder for the Chamber of Commerce and others to argue that if there is no amnesty then businesses will be without critical workers because the plan provides for truly temporary workers if needed -- so their argument for amnesty would be largely moot. I would add the requirement that the majority of the worker's pay be held in trust until he/she returns home. Of course, this has an enforcement issue too. But, I would take a chance on a true guest worker plan if it could prevent an amnesty. Neither would be preferable, but I'm not sure if that's possible. It's for strategy sake, not ideology.

Any illegal who is working would be required by his/her employer to enroll in this plan.

Another missing link here is the fact that a good number of illegals are working with fake papers, with stolen social security numbers, and with forged documents which often prohibit their employers from even suspecting that they are illegal. So how would the employer force him to do anything? And what about the ones working under the table?

And, don't forget--the employers don't WANT to report them. They don't WANT to know if they are illegal. THEY want the cheap labor, the ability to work them without providing benefits, etc. So, it's a no-win situation.

Educated guesses:

Most illegal aliens who work for employers are paid at least the minimum wage.

Most illegal aliens who have regular jobs (not including day laborer temporary type jobs) presented documents (either fake or legitimate documents that belong to someone else) to their employers prior to their being hired.

Are the above educated guesses incorrect?

A better employment eligibility verification system is needed.

http://www.numbersusa.com/interests/amnesty.html#1986

No. 1- Immigration Reform and Control Act Amnesty of 1986:
The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (IRCA) was enacted by Congress in response to the large and rapidly growing illegal alien population in the United States. The final bill was the result of a dramatic compromise between those who wanted to reduce illegal immigration into the United States and those who wanted to "wipe the slate clean" for those illegals already living here by granting them legal residence. As enacted, IRCA included a massive amnesty program for two main categories of illegal aliens:

1) those who could show that they had resided illegally in the United States continuously since at least January 1, 1982; and

2) those who had worked as agricultural workers for at least 90 days between May 1, 1985 and May 1, 1986. I wonder if the farmers had any problems finding workers for those 12 months.

As a "balance" to this huge amnesty, IRCA also included several provisions designed to: strengthen the enforcement of immigration laws (including sanctions for employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens); increase border controls; and create a program to verify the immigration status of aliens applying for certain welfare benefits.

The IRCA amnesty has been tied to terrorism. Mahmud Abouhalima, a leader of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, was legalized as a seasonal agricultural worker as part of the 1986 IRCA amnesty. This allowed him to travel abroad, including several trips to Afghanistan, where he received terrorist training.

NOTE: In the 1990 Immigration Act, an additional 160,000 spouses and minor children of aliens amnestied under IRCA were granted amnesty as well. These 160,000 aliens are not included in the total numeric impact of the amnesty.

In addition, another 350,000 illegal aliens who were initially disqualified from the 1986 IRCA amnesty because they had traveled abroad while in the U.S. illegally may qualify for amnesty under proposed settlements in lawsuits resulting after the 1986 amnesty.

The 10-year impact of both the SAW and general amnesty in the Immigration Reform and Control Act was 2,684,892.

The following should be our priorities in stopping illegal immigration:

1) Start applying substantial fines to employers of illegal aliens. Employers have access to verify SS#, so that is no excuse. This means ALL employers, including people who hire nannies, gardeners, etc.

2) Get our border reinforced soon. Use the national guard or whatever is necessary, but get it done.

3) Stop all benefits for illegal aliens.

4) Stop the "anchor baby" problem, using whatever legal means to get it done.

5) Implement my above "guestworker-legalization" program.

6) Set up roadblocks and confiscate vehicles of anyone driving with no license and no insurance. If they are illegals, deport them and permanently ban them from entering the U. S.

This is enough for now. I'll write more later.

Originally Posted by rmad123

The following should be our priorities in stopping illegal immigration:

1) Start applying substantial fines to employers of illegal aliens. Employers have access to verify SS#, so that is no excuse. This means ALL employers, including people who hire nannies, gardeners, etc. (Yes, part of the platform of ALIPAC)

2) Get our border reinforced soon. Use the national guard or whatever is necessary, but get it done. (Yes, part of the platform of ALIPAC)

3) Stop all benefits for illegal aliens. (Yes, part of the platform of ALIPAC)

4) Stop the "anchor baby" problem, using whatever legal means to get it done. (Not in the platform. Many of our supporters agree but this measure does not meet the 80+% rule needed to become part of our platform yet)

5) Implement my above "guestworker-legalization" program.
(No. This contradicts your 3rd point and would get rid of illegal aliens by rewarding them with legalized status. The ALIPAC platform opposes such measures)

6) Set up roadblocks and confiscate vehicles of anyone driving with no license and no insurance. If they are illegals, deport them and permanently ban them from entering the U. S. (No need for roadblocks or sweeps. Americans have resistance to these types of measures since we are the nation that defeated the fascists. By allowing local and state police to process illegal aliens for deportation during their routine activities we can reverse the polarity at the border with more going out than are coming in)

This is enough for now. I'll write more later.

I can tell you for a fact that item 3 is fiercely resisted in our movement and items 4 and 6 do not have enough support to assure consensus.

In fact, 4 and 6 have enough members of the General Public opposed to them that your promotion of the idea plays into the hands of the Open Borders Lobby. Rob Allyn would be happy that you are pushing those ideas here.

W