Thread: President Bush's Plan For Comprehensive Immigration Reform

THEY ARE ALL THE BLAME. Enforcement of immigrations laws have never been enforced. We blame Bush now because he is in office. Reps. and Dems. alike are not serious about enforcing immigration laws. The few the want the law enforced are both Reps. and Dems.
The amount of immigrants, legal or illegal is an enormous cost the the American tax payer. Giving amnesty to illegals would not change the cost to this country, because illegal immigrantion has been overwhelming. It is a problem. Amnesty will cost much more then deportaton.
Tamar Jacoby, Manhatten Institute say; "immigrants create jobs for immigrants and Americans and they help the economy." "Immigrant businesses hire immigrants and Americans."
Immigrant own business do not hire American citizens. Americans pay the price. Enforce immigration laws and they will not come and they will leave. We do not have to round up 12 million and deport them. They will leave over a period of time and American will absorb the jobs they left. We do not need more unskilled laborers. We have enough home grown unskilled workers.

ILLEGAL OR LEGAL THERE ARE TOO MANY IN THIS COUNTRY.[/i]

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Pray tell, what guest worker program are you saying Bush implemented, or are you claiming that the mere discussion of the possibility of a guest worker program caused the influx? If that's the case, are not the many Democrats, including the Clintons and most of the other golden boys of the party, at the very least equally complicit for backing either amnesty or a guest worker program?

As for the question regarding Clinton's opening of the borders as a matter of policy, please look over this excerpt from Sellout: The Inside Story of President Clinton’s Impeachment, by David P. Schippers, former Chief Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee:

I’m claiming that when Bush discussed / proposed this guest worker’s program that this increased the influx of illegal aliens. I don’t know how many illegals manage to get into our country per year but I read on several websites that Bush plan made illegals rush to the border, break into our country and are less fearful of INS they think it’s ok to break in now. Bush did it on purpose, even he can’t be that stupid not to believe that his proposal wouldn’t increase the influx of illegals while the border was and still is wide open.

Referring to your text in blue now. In this or another thread I told 2nd amendmis that I read a book written by Buchanan. We were talking about number of foreigners in NY & NJ and I referred to the book that stated both states have a lot of foreign born. There’s a part in a chapter that claimed that Clinton legalized 1,045 million illegal aliens prior to the 2006 elections, and it went over his head that 80,000 of them were criminal illegal aliens. All illegals are criminals, but these 80,000 were convicts and violent. Clinton made his mistakes, just don’t want to talk too much about his mistakes. Clinton legalized 1,045 million, Bush want to legalize > 10 million, huge difference ! I’m not an immigration expert, just want to say I’m neither completely illiterate on this subject.

It's clear that w'all agree that illegals should be prevented to enter the country, build the wall, fine employers that hire illegals etc, I just can't stop bashing Bush, I dislike him so much and he increased the influx of illegals and I'm living on ground zero while Bush is on the other side of the country. He's an idiot.

Cassie wrote:

It's clear that w'all agree that illegals should be prevented to enter the country, build the wall, fine employers that hire illegals etc, I just can't stop bashing Bush, I dislike him so much and he increased the influx of illegals and I'm living on ground zero while Bush is on the other side of the country. He's an idiot.

Cassie, Most of us agree he is an idiot! That is very obvious! I know there are many that are living at ground zero . Please rest assured, that we Americans, that do no yet live at ground zero, because it has not reached us yet, support you and are fighting to save America from this invasion.

Use your anger and stand up in whatever way you choose to fight illegal immigration, it will make you feel good. I believe that both Republicans and Democrats are joining this fight for the same reason....We all love this country and are fighting to save it from invasion.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by americangirl

No, I'd prefer not to get into a religious debate here. I don't think this is the appropriate forum for it. Besides, I have no problem with people who believe in God. And I learned a long time ago not to try to push an agenda (of atheism) on people. Just live and let live.

I don't know this woman who is also an atheist, but it is of absolutely no importance to me that I have a "kindred" here.

I was not proposing a religious debate, but rather an exercise in logic and reasoning. But you do well to not attempt to push a religious or irreligious agenda. I myself am not uncomfortable discussing religion with other religious folks, which is actually a pretty vast majority of people, and I appreciate when people I know to be irreligious don't attempt to quash those discussions through claims of offense. I also believe that once persons have stated their religious or irreligious stance, it should be game for discussion. After all, the option of simply remaining silent always exists.

That said, I appreciate your candor and intend no offense.

Thank you Crocket. I too appreciate YOUR candor, nor do I mean any offense either. I sincerely respect you and all you contribute to this site.

Originally Posted by April

Cassie wrote:

It's clear that w'all agree that illegals should be prevented to enter the country, build the wall, fine employers that hire illegals etc, I just can't stop bashing Bush, I dislike him so much and he increased the influx of illegals and I'm living on ground zero while Bush is on the other side of the country. He's an idiot.

Cassie, Most of us agree he is an idiot! That is very obvious! I know there are many that are living at ground zero . Please rest assured, that we Americans, that do no yet live at ground zero, because it has not reached us yet, support you and are fighting to save America from this invasion.

Use your anger and stand up in whatever way you choose to fight illegal immigration, it will make you feel good. I believe that both Republicans and Democrats are joining this fight for the same reason....We all love this country and are fighting to save it from invasion.

The problem that there are still many people that are not aware of the problem as they're living outside of ground zero. We may need a 3rd party made of by discontented Republicans, Democrates, and any other citizens

Originally Posted by cassie

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Pray tell, what guest worker program are you saying Bush implemented, or are you claiming that the mere discussion of the possibility of a guest worker program caused the influx? If that's the case, are not the many Democrats, including the Clintons and most of the other golden boys of the party, at the very least equally complicit for backing either amnesty or a guest worker program?

As for the question regarding Clinton's opening of the borders as a matter of policy, please look over this excerpt from Sellout: The Inside Story of President Clinton’s Impeachment, by David P. Schippers, former Chief Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee:

I’m claiming that when Bush discussed / proposed this guest worker’s program that this increased the influx of illegal aliens. I don’t know how many illegals manage to get into our country per year but I read on several websites that Bush plan made illegals rush to the border, break into our country and are less fearful of INS they think it’s ok to break in now. Bush did it on purpose, even he can’t be that stupid not to believe that his proposal wouldn’t increase the influx of illegals while the border was and still is wide open.

Referring to your text in blue now. In this or another thread I told 2nd amendmis that I read a book written by Buchanan. We were talking about number of foreigners in NY & NJ and I referred to the book that stated both states have a lot of foreign born. There’s a part in a chapter that claimed that Clinton legalized 1,045 million illegal aliens prior to the 2006 elections, and it went over his head that 80,000 of them were criminal illegal aliens. All illegals are criminals, but these 80,000 were convicts and violent. Clinton made his mistakes, just don’t want to talk too much about his mistakes. Clinton legalized 1,045 million, Bush want to legalize > 10 million, huge difference ! I’m not an immigration expert, just want to say I’m neither completely illiterate on this subject.

It's clear that w'all agree that illegals should be prevented to enter the country, build the wall, fine employers that hire illegals etc, I just can't stop bashing Bush, I dislike him so much and he increased the influx of illegals and I'm living on ground zero while Bush is on the other side of the country. He's an idiot.

Obviously not! You have been serving as an apologist for Clinton and his merry band of Demonrat illegal alien cheerleaders since you got here.

Just we're clear, Bush has nowhere said that he wants to grant citizenship to the ">10 million" you keep claiming. He may intend to accomplish that eventually, but that is not the plan that's being enunciated. Clinton's abuses on the immigration front, however, are not a matter of speculation but of history, and those of us down here in the border states remember well that the explosion of illegals flooding our cities and towns began at least a decade ago, long before George W. Bush took office. If you have really been in California then you would know that as well...

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by cassie

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Pray tell, what guest worker program are you saying Bush implemented, or are you claiming that the mere discussion of the possibility of a guest worker program caused the influx? If that's the case, are not the many Democrats, including the Clintons and most of the other golden boys of the party, at the very least equally complicit for backing either amnesty or a guest worker program?

As for the question regarding Clinton's opening of the borders as a matter of policy, please look over this excerpt from Sellout: The Inside Story of President Clinton’s Impeachment, by David P. Schippers, former Chief Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee:

I’m claiming that when Bush discussed / proposed this guest worker’s program that this increased the influx of illegal aliens. I don’t know how many illegals manage to get into our country per year but I read on several websites that Bush plan made illegals rush to the border, break into our country and are less fearful of INS they think it’s ok to break in now. Bush did it on purpose, even he can’t be that stupid not to believe that his proposal wouldn’t increase the influx of illegals while the border was and still is wide open.

Referring to your text in blue now. In this or another thread I told 2nd amendmis that I read a book written by Buchanan. We were talking about number of foreigners in NY & NJ and I referred to the book that stated both states have a lot of foreign born. There’s a part in a chapter that claimed that Clinton legalized 1,045 million illegal aliens prior to the 2006 elections, and it went over his head that 80,000 of them were criminal illegal aliens. All illegals are criminals, but these 80,000 were convicts and violent. Clinton made his mistakes, just don’t want to talk too much about his mistakes. Clinton legalized 1,045 million, Bush want to legalize > 10 million, huge difference ! I’m not an immigration expert, just want to say I’m neither completely illiterate on this subject.

It's clear that w'all agree that illegals should be prevented to enter the country, build the wall, fine employers that hire illegals etc, I just can't stop bashing Bush, I dislike him so much and he increased the influx of illegals and I'm living on ground zero while Bush is on the other side of the country. He's an idiot.

Obviously not! You have been serving as an apologist for Clinton and his merry band of Demonrat illegal alien cheerleaders since you got here.

Just we're clear, Bush has nowhere said that he wants to grant citizenship to the ">10 million" you keep claiming. He may intend to accomplish that eventually, but that is not the plan that's being enunciated. Clinton's abuses on the immigration front, however, are not a matter of speculation but of history, and those of us down here in the border states remember well that the explosion of illegals flooding our cities and towns began at least a decade ago, long before George W. Bush took office. If you have really been in California then you would know that as well...

If I've even been to Califnornia ??? I LIVE here ! Have you ever been to Califnornia ?? As I told in another thread and admitted that this problem wasn't created overnight, it took decades. Bush is now in power and has no intention to stop it, and that's wh I blame Bush. Can't blame clinton anymore, he's not in office. Hillary is the least of all evils ! She's not perfect, never claimed that, there's just no other candidate to vote for.

And are you naive ?? Bush guest worker's program is just a covered up amnesty, it will absolutely lead to citizenship.

Originally Posted by cassie

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by cassie

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Pray tell, what guest worker program are you saying Bush implemented, or are you claiming that the mere discussion of the possibility of a guest worker program caused the influx? If that's the case, are not the many Democrats, including the Clintons and most of the other golden boys of the party, at the very least equally complicit for backing either amnesty or a guest worker program?

As for the question regarding Clinton's opening of the borders as a matter of policy, please look over this excerpt from Sellout: The Inside Story of President Clinton’s Impeachment, by David P. Schippers, former Chief Counsel for the House Judiciary Committee:

I’m claiming that when Bush discussed / proposed this guest worker’s program that this increased the influx of illegal aliens. I don’t know how many illegals manage to get into our country per year but I read on several websites that Bush plan made illegals rush to the border, break into our country and are less fearful of INS they think it’s ok to break in now. Bush did it on purpose, even he can’t be that stupid not to believe that his proposal wouldn’t increase the influx of illegals while the border was and still is wide open.

Referring to your text in blue now. In this or another thread I told 2nd amendmis that I read a book written by Buchanan. We were talking about number of foreigners in NY & NJ and I referred to the book that stated both states have a lot of foreign born. There’s a part in a chapter that claimed that Clinton legalized 1,045 million illegal aliens prior to the 2006 elections, and it went over his head that 80,000 of them were criminal illegal aliens. All illegals are criminals, but these 80,000 were convicts and violent. Clinton made his mistakes, just don’t want to talk too much about his mistakes. Clinton legalized 1,045 million, Bush want to legalize > 10 million, huge difference ! I’m not an immigration expert, just want to say I’m neither completely illiterate on this subject.

It's clear that w'all agree that illegals should be prevented to enter the country, build the wall, fine employers that hire illegals etc, I just can't stop bashing Bush, I dislike him so much and he increased the influx of illegals and I'm living on ground zero while Bush is on the other side of the country. He's an idiot.

Obviously not! You have been serving as an apologist for Clinton and his merry band of Demonrat illegal alien cheerleaders since you got here.

Just we're clear, Bush has nowhere said that he wants to grant citizenship to the ">10 million" you keep claiming. He may intend to accomplish that eventually, but that is not the plan that's being enunciated. Clinton's abuses on the immigration front, however, are not a matter of speculation but of history, and those of us down here in the border states remember well that the explosion of illegals flooding our cities and towns began at least a decade ago, long before George W. Bush took office. If you have really been in California then you would know that as well...

If I've even been to Califnornia ??? I LIVE here ! Have you ever been to Califnornia ?? As I told in another thread and admitted that this problem wasn't created overnight, it took decades. Bush is now in power and has no intention to stop it, and that's wh I blame Bush. Can't blame clinton anymore, he's not in office. Hillary is the least of all evils ! She's not perfect, never claimed that, there's just no other candidate to vote for.

And are you naive ?? Bush guest worker's program is just a covered up amnesty, it will absolutely lead to citizenship.

You will forgive me if I choose not to take anything you have offered at face value. And yes, I previously spent the better part of a decade in Southern California and had two homes there. When not actually living there, I spent a cumulative two or three years working there on one or another project. My permanent home is in Texas, and I also lived for awhile in Ft. Lauderdale. I have spent most of my life at ground zero for the illegal immigrant invasions.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

You will forgive me if I choose not to take anything you have offered at face value. And yes, I previously spent the better part of a decade in Southern California and had two homes there. When not actually living there, I spent a cumulative two or three years working there on one or another project. My permanent home is in Texas, and I also lived for awhile in Ft. Lauderdale. I have spent most of my life at ground zero for the illegal immigrant invasions.

If I say that I live in California, what makes you think I'm lying ? I told you that I ( and my twin sister ) was born in the City of Angels, and never moved away from Ca. It's the Golden State, and the most popular state in the Union. If Ca was an independent state, it would be the 6th economy in the world, can't say that of Texas. That's logical, Bush probably made Tx bankrupt

Originally Posted by cassie

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

You will forgive me if I choose not to take anything you have offered at face value. And yes, I previously spent the better part of a decade in Southern California and had two homes there. When not actually living there, I spent a cumulative two or three years working there on one or another project. My permanent home is in Texas, and I also lived for awhile in Ft. Lauderdale. I have spent most of my life at ground zero for the illegal immigrant invasions.

If I say that I live in California, what makes you think I'm lying ? I told you that I ( and my twin sister ) was born in the City of Angels, and never moved away from Ca. It's the Golden State, and the most popular state in the Union. If Ca was an independent state, it would be the 6th economy in the world, can't say that of Texas. That's logical, Bush probably made Tx bankrupt

You have told us all sorts of things. Nowhere are we bound to accept those claims as true.

You are also wrong about California and its "6th economy in the world." That's an old statistic that has not been valid for at least a decade. California's world ranking is sinking faster than the Titanic. At a current (2005) GSP of $1.62 trillion, California has slipped to eighth largest economy after being fifth just over a decade ago.

As for Texas, it cannot go bankrupt because its constitution does not allow deficit spending nor does it allow surplus. Any surplus must be set aside in a "rainy day fund" to cover any future shortfall. Texas generally holds several billion dollars in the rainy day fund. That means that Texas will never be insolvent, unlike that socialist debtor state that you claim to live in. Oh, and as of 2005, Texas was 10th on the IMF list of world economies despite having a population of only 23.5 million compared with 36.5 million for California. In 2005, its economy grew by $100 billion to just under $1 trillion, meaning that it's moving up the list, not down. Note, however, that the IMF list has now aggregated all European economies into a single unit as the European Union, which easily has the world's largest economy. Because several of the European states would have larger economies than Texas or California, the rankings are artificially skewed. Germany, the UK and France all have lerger economies than California, ranging from about $1.9 trillion for France up to about $2.5 trillion for Germany. That means that California is really ninth or tenth at the moment and that Texas is about 12th. Note that the 2005 World Factbook compiled by the CIA lists California's economy as only 10th after the US, China, Japan, India, Germany, UK, France, Italy and Russia.