Thread: Should we push Congress to abolish the Electoral College?

Originally Posted by barkway

The electoral college is one of the biggest hoaxes ever played upon the American people IMHO. The "people" haven't elected most recent Presidents....the electoral college has and they are not obligated to vote the popular vote. Fix the college, fix the vote.

Barkway, you need to take a deep breath and go back and read some of the writings of the Founding Fathers regarding the reason for the EC. It was no "hoax". It was a carefully thought out and essential element of the balance of powers. Yo appear to be buying into the REAL hoax perpetrated upon the American people, which is that this is supposed to be a democracy. Democracy is just a fancy word for mob rule, and it was rejected by the founding fathers as an untenable means of operating a free and fair republic.

Here are some quotes from the Constitutional Convention's delegates in arguing for an electoral college:

"A popular election in this case is radically vicious. The ignorance of the people would put it in the power of some one set of men dispersed through the Union, and acting in concert, to delude them into any appointment." -- Delegate Gerry, July 25, 1787

"The extent of the country renders it impossible, that the people can have the requisite capacity to judge of the respective pretensions of the candidates." -- Delegate Mason, July 17, 1787

"The people are uninformed, and would be misled by a few designing men." -- Delegate Gerry, July 19, 1787.

Alexander Hamilton made a particularly well-considered defense of the EC in Federalist no. 68. Here's an excerpt:

"Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union? But the convention have guarded against all danger of this sort, with the most provident and judicious attention. They have not made the appointment of the President to depend on any preexisting bodies of men, who might be tampered with beforehand to prostitute their votes; but they have referred it in the first instance to an immediate act of the people of America, to be exerted in the choice of persons for the temporary and sole purpose of making the appointment."

(full text of the article: http://www.avagara.com/e_c/reference/00012601.htm)

The sad part is that the opponents of direct election were absolutely correct about the gullibility of the American people. Do you really believe that Bush, Kerry and Gore were the best men for the job over the last two election cycles? If anything, we should go back to the original format of the EC and dispense with the popular vote for President altogether.

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by goamerica

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

Originally Posted by goamerica

Originally Posted by goamerica

I thought that the most important right granted to U.S. citizens is the right to vote and you're telling me that an illegal immigrant has that same right?... hmmmmm... that's odd!!

Originally Posted by CrocketsGhost

No, I'm not telling you that an illegal immigrant has a right to vote. I am telling you that illegal immigrants are in fact voting because no one is stopping them.

No one is stopping them from voting? This is outrageous!!!

Not in places like Mexifornia, where poll workers are prohibited from demanding proof of citizenship. All it takes is a DL and voter registration card. Problem is, states like California will accept almost any sort of fake ID for obtaining a DL.

Proof? It's official policy, codified into state law!

If you have solid proof of what you're telling me, we should bring that to the attention of the Terminator in Sacramento. They could use computers to check the data bank if the voter is U.S. citizen. Flash a green light if he is or flash a red light if he is not!! Sooo simple!!

The voting process and tools need to be fixed before the most important right granted to U.S. Citizens becomes meaningless

The voting process doesn't need to be fixed

The people INVOLVED in the process need to be fixed.

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

The voting process doesn't need to be fixed

The people INVOLVED in the process need to be fixed.

That is a matter of opinion!! Aren't people part of the tools in that case?

It's like setting priorities. One has to weigh the right order for it to work more efficiently. Which one should be the number one?
Good luck trying the polish reversal method!