Thread: The Ted Cruz’s Establishment friendly tax plan

Originally Posted by Judy

I was referring to what you posted about the Fair Share Plan, as your plan meaning a plan you support. Who wrote the Fair Share Plan and whose plan is it?

Judy,

Section 4, which you previously quoted and have a problem with, is our founder's idea and is found in several of our Constitution's ratification documents. For example see the Ratification of theConstitution by the State of New Hampshire; June 21, 1788

Fourthly That Congress do not lay direct Taxes but when the money arising from Impost, Excise and their other resources are insufficient for the Publick Exigencies; nor then, untill Congress shall have first made a Requisition upon the States, to Assess, Levy, & pay their respective proportions, of such requisitions agreeably to the Census fixed in the said Constitution in such way & manner as the Legislature of the State shall think best and in such Case if any State shall neglect, then Congress may Assess & Levy such States proportion together with the Interest thereon at the rate of six per Cent per Annum from the Time of payment prescribed in such requisition-


Why do you have such a problem with our Constitution's original tax plan which paved the way for America to become the economic marvel of the world? Why do you have such a problem with our founder's original tax plan which also encouraged Congress to follow sound fiscal policies and spend within the limits of imposts, duties and excise taxes to avoid the dreaded apportioned tax?

And why is it that not one of our candidates will discuss the merits of our Constitution's original tax plan when talking tax reform, nor will any of our radio/tv talk show hosts ever discus our Constitution's original tax plan and this includes Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, Schnitt, Mark Levin, DennisPrager, Bill O'rielly, Mike Gallagher, Doc Thompson, Lee Rodgers, Neal Boortz,Mike Huckabee, Tammy Bruce, Monica Crowley, Herman Cain. Eric Bolling, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Greg Gutfeld, Dana Perino, Juan Williams, Megyn Kelly, Neil Cavuto, John Stossel etc.,


JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

Judy,

Section 4, which you previously quoted and have a problem with, is our founder's idea and is found in several of our Constitution's ratification documents. For example see the Ratification of theConstitution by the State of New Hampshire; June 21, 1788

Fourthly That Congress do not lay direct Taxes but when the money arising from Impost, Excise and their other resources are insufficient for the Publick Exigencies; nor then, untill Congress shall have first made a Requisition upon the States, to Assess, Levy, & pay their respective proportions, of such requisitions agreeably to the Census fixed in the said Constitution in such way & manner as the Legislature of the State shall think best and in such Case if any State shall neglect, then Congress may Assess & Levy such States proportion together with the Interest thereon at the rate of six per Cent per Annum from the Time of payment prescribed in such requisition-


Why do you have such a problem with our Constitution's original tax plan which paved the way for America to become the economic marvel of the world? Why do you have such a problem with our founder's original tax plan which also encouraged Congress to follow sound fiscal policies and spend within the limits of imposts, duties and excise taxes to avoid the dreaded apportioned tax?

And why is it that not one of our candidates will discuss the merits of our Constitution's original tax plan when talking tax reform, nor will any of our radio/tv talk show hosts ever discus our Constitution's original tax plan and this includes Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, Laura Ingraham, Schnitt, Mark Levin, DennisPrager, Bill O'rielly, Mike Gallagher, Doc Thompson, Lee Rodgers, Neal Boortz,Mike Huckabee, Tammy Bruce, Monica Crowley, Herman Cain. Eric Bolling, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Greg Gutfeld, Dana Perino, Juan Williams, Megyn Kelly, Neil Cavuto, John Stossel etc.,


JWK

John, they never used it. Not once. To my knowledge, the direct tax plan through apportionment, what you call as the "original tax plan" has never been used by the Founders or anyone else. I oppose property taxes, income taxes and value-added taxes. I like sales taxes because they are easy, efficient and voluntary whereas the others are none of the above. So, if there is another type of plan that is voluntary, easy and efficient, I would be delighted to review it. But any plan that allows either the federal government or a state or any other level of government to force taxation through liens, seizures, assessments, valuations or income, I totally oppose. These are the epitome of socialism on its face and communism on the back.

For me, the FairTax is the best plan. It's easy, it's efficient, it's voluntary, it's collected by the states through paid retail businesses, nothing could be more simple, fair or free than that. It even has a rebate program that reimburses everyone who is a US citizen or legal resident the FairTax they would or could pay in FairTax on essentials up to the household consumption allowance. The rate is split after collection to fund general revenue and social security separately so the monies are not commingled and the rates are set separately as well. 14.91% for General Revenue and 8.09% for Social Security and Medicare. It's really a great plan. I've tried for years to find a weakness in it, and so far I can't find one.

Anyway, the tax plans aren't of any interest to me in this election because they're all income tax based and just more same o same o of the same failed income tax. Of the plans, Trump's is as good as any and I think he'll ramp it up to the FaiTax or something similar once he's in office and actually fix the problem, because that's his end game, to fix the problem, and he knows this plan while perhaps a better version than we have now, is still the same o failed income tax system.

Originally Posted by Judy

John, they never used it. Not once. To my knowledge, .

If you are talking about the direct tax, it was used a number of times as I previously documented!

The act of July 14, 1798, c. 75, 1 Stat. 53. This act imposed a tax upon real estate and a capitation tax upon slaves.

The act of Aug. 2, 1813, c. 37, 3 id. 53. By this act the tax was imposed upon real estate and slaves, according to their respective values in money.

The act of Jan. 19, 1815, c. 21, id. 164. This act imposed the tax upon the same descriptions of property, and in like manner as the preceding act.

The act of Feb. 27, 1815, c. 60, id. 216, applied to the District of Columbia the provisions of the act of Jan. 19, 1815. [102 U.S. 586,599] The act of March 5, 1816, c. 24,id. 255, repealed the two preceding acts, and re-enacted their provisions to enforce the collection of the smaller amount of tax thereby prescribed.

The act of Aug. 5, 1861, c. 45, 12 id. 294, required the tax to be levied wholly on real estate.

The act of June 7, 1862, c. 98, id. 422, and the act of Feb.6, 1863, c. 21, id. 640, both relate only to the collection, in insurrectionary districts, of the direct tax imposed by the act of Aug. 5, 1861.

Why do you refer to our founder's plan as communistic?

JWK

Judy

Just for the record and to confirm the use of the direct taxing power, here is a link to the direct tax of 1798 and the amounts to be paid by each of the States.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=001/llsl001.db&recNum=720

JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

Judy

Just for the record and to confirm the use of the direct taxing power, here is a link to the direct tax of 1798 and the amounts to be paid by each of the States.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=001/llsl001.db&recNum=720

JWK

That was in 1798, before our country was formed with our existing Constitution. Our first Congress was in 1789. Our Constitution wasn't ratified until 1791.

Originally Posted by Judy

That was in 1798, before our country was formed with our existing Constitution. Our first Congress was in 1789. Our Constitution wasn't ratified until 1791.

Judy,

What on earth are you talking about?

Our Constitution became legally effective on March 4, 1789. However, the ninth State NH ratified it on

on June 21, 1788, making it binding on the States who ratified it.

The fact is, the direct tax was used a number of times as I have previously documented for you.

The first direct tax was approve July 16th, 1798.

JWK

Originally Posted by johnwk

Judy,

What on earth are you talking about?

Our Constitution became legally effective on March 4, 1789. However, the ninth State NH ratified it on

on June 21, 1788, making it binding on the States who ratified it.

The fact is, the direct tax was used a number of times as I have previously documented for you.

The first direct tax was approve July 16th, 1798.

JWK

I'm so sorry, JohnWK. I'm using the date the whole Constitution with the Bill of Rights was signed and ratified.

So you are correct and I stand corrected. From a quick review of those uses, they weren't used as a general tax regular revenue source, it appears they were used in short-term situations. Is that correct? Perhaps in those situations it was necessary, I don't know. I've never known it to be used as a general day to day year to year source of revenue even by the Founders. Is that right?

Question, how long did the collection on slaves persist? Was that a dictate from the federal government or a plan arranged by the States to come up with their payment on the apportionment assessment?

Again, I'm a Republican who like many are completely opposed to mandated taxes like income, property, inventory, personal property, all of that. Those are forms of communism and tyranny. Everyone knows that. The issue is whether we as a people can figure out a plan that actually conforms with our ideals of liberty, personal freedom, privacy as well as liberty and freedom in our work and business activities that pays the bills.

For me, the best plan ever presented to the American People to date is the FairTax because it's easy, efficient and voluntary exactly like the general tax plan of the Founders under the US Constitution where general taxes were tariffs, imposts, duties and excise taxes on goods and services which is all a retail sales tax is, exactly like what the Founders had in mind.

FairTax Act of 2015: HR 25 in the US House of Representatives and S 155 in the US Senate.