We must find a way to make peace between two groups....

the group of Americans that urgently and rightfully want Dictator Barack Obama out of office and are either A. Supporting Romney or B. Supporting neither because they feel that either one may lead America further astray.

Can you really blame anyone that feels as those in category B do if you have been reading much of what Mitt Romney has said lately?

Or better yet, how about all you people that voted for Bush like I did in 2000? I'm just glad that disaster did not get my vote twice. I voted Constitution Party as write in back in 2006! And in the end I feel better than all of my friends that had to push a button twice for the King Bush!

A lot of us Americans know the horror of having hope that the next candidate is actually going to help America and then watch step by step as those hopes and expectations are brutally crushed by powerful men and women that either could care less about this country or are to intentionally instigate what I call "The Controlled Demolition of America."

Mitt Romney, you want to give millions of illegal aliens citizenship by putting them trough training in the military or US National guard so your illegal alien servants can have full 1st world military training? It's hard not to be rude when I respond to that nonsense.

The Mitt Romney and Obama Psychophants are beyond reach, but perhaps some of the rest of us can agree that we understand people who want to play the "Mitt Romney might save us" game and those that have played that game so many times that they are fed up and done with it.

The truth is that America's entire political system is in a state of collapse due to the heavy pressure or oppression at the top and lie after lie coming from the forked snake tongues of Republicrats.

These two groups Ive described in group A. and B. are both fighters for America, but surely we can develop some kind of understanding between groups and a gentlman's and gentlewoman's agreement on the issue on how to conduct ourselves with fellow patriots with which we have a difference of opinion.

How do you feel about this suggestion?

W

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ALIPAC

the group of Americans that urgently and rightfully want Dictator Barack Obama out of office and are either A. Supporting Romney or B. Supporting neither because they feel that either one may lead America further astray.

Can you really blame anyone that feels as those in category B do if you have been reading much of what Mitt Romney has said lately?

Or better yet, how about all you people that voted for Bush like I did in 2000? I'm just glad that disaster did not get my vote twice. I voted Constitution Party as write in back in 2006! And in the end I feel better than all of my friends that had to push a button twice for the King Bush!

A lot of us Americans know the horror of having hope that the next candidate is actually going to help America and then watch step by step as those hopes and expectations are brutally crushed by powerful men and women that either could care less about this country or are to intentionally instigate what I call "The Controlled Demolition of America."

Mitt Romney, you want to give millions of illegal aliens citizenship by putting them trough training in the military or US National guard so your illegal alien servants can have full 1st world military training? It's hard not to be rude when I respond to that nonsense.

The Mitt Romney and Obama Psychophants are beyond reach, but perhaps some of the rest of us can agree that we understand people who want to play the "Mitt Romney might save us" game and those that have played that game so many times that they are fed up and done with it.

The truth is that America's entire political system is in a state of collapse due to the heavy pressure or oppression at the top and lie after lie coming from the forked snake tongues of Republicrats.

These two groups Ive described in group A. and B. are both fighters for America, but surely we can develop some kind of understanding between groups and a gentlman's and gentlewoman's agreement on the issue on how to conduct ourselves with fellow patriots with which we have a difference of opinion.

How do you feel about this suggestion?

W

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Okay, I understand where you're coming from but the pure and simple truth is, either Obama or Romney will be sitting in the White House next year. Like it or not, that's the reality of the situation. I'm not a big Romney fan, however, I am definitely an Obama hater which means I will vote for and support Romney. Can you even imagine the damage we'll take if Obama gets another four years, especially another four years where he won't have to worry about reelection. Say what you will about Romney but one thing is clear, he's better on the illegal immigrant issue than Obama is. Can anyone deny that fact?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MW

Okay, I understand where you're coming from but the pure and simple truth is, either Obama or Romney will be sitting in the White House next year. Like it or not, that's the reality of the situation. I'm not a big Romney fan, however, I am definitely an Obama hater which means I will vote for and support Romney. Can you even imagine the damage we'll take if Obama gets another four years, especially another four years where he won't have to worry about reelection. Say what you will about Romney but one thing is clear, he's better on the illegal immigrant issue than Obama is. Can anyone deny that fact?

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I can easily respect and understand your position on that. I do not agree that Mitt Romney will be better than Obama on immigration because A. we are all guessing about the future there B. Romney has clearly lied to the public about his immigration stances and now they are "evolving" he is blaming Obama for not passing a longer term comprehensive permanent solution. So Romney is criticizing Obama for not having gone further!

So I am not being rude to you when I point out your opinions on Romney and immigration are speculative.

My opinion is that Romney and Obama serve the same masters (not, you...me.. or the American public) that have had their unmerry way with the Executive Branch for a long time now, at least since 2000 or before.

Can you respect my opinion without going to the mat and accusing me of supporting Obama by not supporting Romney?

That is what the Mitt Romney supporters are going to say to those that dont support him, which is understandable because they want what they perceive as "their candidate" to win.

Now, if conservatives are now so angry at Obama that they are willing to support a form of amnesty for illegal aliens to try to win the race then America is gone. They may still call it America but there will be no need for future lies and wanderings to aging conservative America.

W

One way to mitigate Romney might be to make sure he keeps getting confronted with the issues of illegals and outsourcing as much as possible along the campaign trail. They are hot-button issues with mainstream Americans.

You have to put pressure on Romney, IE: Calls and emails, every DAY about illegal immigration and legal immigration. There is no other way. SQUEAKY WHEEL GETS THE OIL. We aren't squeeking enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MW

Okay, I understand where you're coming from but the pure and simple truth is, either Obama or Romney will be sitting in the White House next year. Like it or not, that's the reality of the situation. I'm not a big Romney fan, however, I am definitely an Obama hater which means I will vote for and support Romney. Can you even imagine the damage we'll take if Obama gets another four years, especially another four years where he won't have to worry about reelection. Say what you will about Romney but one thing is clear, he's better on the illegal immigrant issue than Obama is. Can anyone deny that fact?

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I can understand your wanting to defeat Obama, but I continue to ask the question, at what cost? We already know Romney is for a form of amnesty for illegals, are you fine with that? In the past, he's said he supported comprehensive immigration reform, before he changed his mind on that, though lately I'm not sure if he's changed his mind on that again back to his original stance.

On a scale of 1 to 10, we know Obama is a 1. But where do you put Romney exactly? I would put him at a 2 because he supports amnesty in exchange for enlisting in the military and I highly doubt he's going to backtrack on that now, and because he can't clarify his position on the rest of the illegals, so we're left playing the guessing game with him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by googler

I can understand your wanting to defeat Obama, but I continue to ask the question, at what cost? We already know Romney is for a form of amnesty for illegals, are you fine with that? In the past, he's said he supported comprehensive immigration reform, before he changed his mind on that, though lately I'm not sure if he's changed his mind on that again back to his original stance.

On a scale of 1 to 10, we know Obama is a 1. But where do you put Romney exactly? I would put him at a 2 because he supports amnesty in exchange for enlisting in the military and I highly doubt he's going to backtrack on that now, and because he can't clarify his position on the rest of the illegals, so we're left playing the guessing game with him.

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O
One thing we won't have to guess on ,if Obama's gone so will Janet Napolitano and Eric Holder!!!

Right now I understand the politics of why Romney (and his handlers) feel they need to tread a little softer on the immigration issue. We've all seen the pundit comments in various articles that state the Hispanic vote could be critical in several swing states. The Romney campaign is not oblivious to those comments and know the smart thing to do right now is to tread lightly. Many people fail to remember the things Romney did in an extremely liberal state when he was actually in a position to legislate. Gov. Romney signed an agreement was with the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency, and it would have essentially deputized 30 Massachusetts State Police troopers, and allowed them to arbitrarily arrest and deport anyone they suspected of being in the country illegally (yep, Brewer wasn't the first). Unfortunately the agreement was recinded by the new governor when he took office but the fact remains, Governor Romney used his power as chief executive of his state to try to empower local law enforcement to serve as ICE agents. in 2004, Romney vetoed a bill that would have allowed undocumented immigrants to avail themselves of in-state tuition rates at state college, even after they graduated from a state high school, and pledged that they would seek citizenship. Then-Governor Romney argued it would cost too much. Combine that with his often spoken comment about vetoing the Dream Act and I think his position on the issue is clear.

Right now I think Romney is just taking a lot of advice from his handlers and other big hats in the GOP. As for some of the comments he's recently made, many of them really haven't been that clear. Isn't it possible that he's throwing up smokescreens to aid his campaign for President? Would it really be wise to fire up the opposition just four months from the presidential election? Personally, I wouldn't think so. I say lead them down the primrose path and then lower the boom when the time is right!

Oh, and in regards to Romney's comments about Obama's failure to meet his promise of comprehenisve immigration reform. Well, IMO, what I see there is nothing more than throwing a negative on Obama. Romney never says he'll inact comprehensive immigration reform but he does say he'll pass immigration reform. Comprehensive immigration reform and immigration reform could be two very different things. Romney has said repeatedly that he doesn't support amnesty for illegals. As for illegals joining the military ....... he's only talking about dreamers, which would be a small number. I can also see how giving them citizenship would be considered 'earned' citizenship, not amnesty. However, with that said, I do not approve of it and will fight tooth and nail. Right now it's a moot point though because illegals aren't allowed to legally enlist in the military. Besides that, should he get elected, that is something that will probably be put so far back on the burner it'll probably never see the light of day.

I still say there are only two choices and I'd much rather take a chance on Romney than give Obama another four years. Furthermore, it's been said that the next president will nominate two U.S. Supreme Court Justices. Are we really up for another Sotomayor and Keegan?

I think that Romney is a little more grown up than Nobama and he might be easier to control. He doesn't seem to me the type that would thumb his nose at the courts or what the states want like Obama does.

Without getting into the politics of this conversation, i see the title of this thread and i feel we absolutely have to find a way. Our country is coming apart at the seams right now. We can not allow this dictator of a President to pull us apart anymore!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by anamarie

O
One thing we won't have to guess on ,if Obama's gone so will Janet Napolitano and Eric Holder!!!

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Good point!

I have been surprised this past week at the amount of my friends that have disagreed with me on politics, that are now approaching me and wanting to express their feelings. I have a lot of left leaning friends that voted for Obama. They are not happy and claim Obama has become a dictator. They don't particularly like Romney but believe he won't destroy America like Obama is.

Maybe this fear I find in my left leaning friends is because we are all Californians. We have seen and are feeling what happens when you have lost all voice in your government.

What gives me hope is the amount of people on the Internet and those around me who are fed up with both Democrats and Republicans. Like the poster before me, I have encountered many young people (my generation) who blindly voted for Obama, but given the chance would vote for Ron Paul no question about it. And then there are the Conservative young adults who are simply disappointed with the party as a whole and not excited with their candidate and can't decide whether to even vote this time around. There's a once in a lifetime opportunity here where both sides are vulnerable and a third party candidate that can appeal to the disillusioned from both sides can really make a difference this time around. The people are sick and tired of the government and those with the money manipulating our politics.

Well, W, I'm definitely a "B"-I don't like either Romney or Obama...and the new third party (Libertarian) candidate Gary Johnson sounds no better...he says he wants no border fence and has a "come one, come all" attitude-and it doesn't matter whether or not they are illegal in his book.

I personally feel that a President who is against illegal immigration but also supports things done by corporations that lead America toward another Great Depression (such as outsourcing our jobs, driving down our wages and laying off everybody) is capable of destroying the country equally, since in a Depression the nation is not safe from being taken over by China or other countries. I try to get both my "red" and "blue" friends to think outside the box and not just blindly accept what they are told, to check Snopes.com (a rumour control website that is nonpartisan and covers everything from politics to celebrities' lives) to see if an email they receive is truth or not, for example. I feel if someone is Republican or Democrat they should check to see if they really are Independent (if they don't support their party's total objectives)...if so, they should be independent swing voters and only carry a D or R card to vote in primaries. For example, I am pro-life but also pro-environment-yet it would seem my being limited to voting either Repub. or Dem., I've got to choose between the two....why can't there be numerous parties of varying political objectives? Doing this (being Independent) lessens the power of both major parties to polarize Americans, plus it lessens their ability to limit our choices based on the issues and having to choose "the lesser of the two evils", ultimately choosing the same old same old, regardless if the new President is Democrat or Republican, black or white, male or female.

I also focus on what we have in common as a nation, and what I have in common with individuals. For example...I am pro-environment, Protestant, and independent politically, yet I have a friend who works for Big Oil, Roman Catholic and Republican. I appeal to what we have in common as believers in Christ, the political values that we do have in common (including being against amnesty for illegals) and I've told him that I support training every person working in Big Oil to get "green" technology, so that noone loses their jobs yet the environment is saved from pollution-a win-win solution for all. He may disagree with me but we're not loathing each other and at each other's throats the way some of us are. We need to stress that if our nation and country go under, all the other issues that divide us, such as abortion, gay marriage, etc., etc. will all be meaningless in the end if we have no country/nation to begin with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ALIPAC

the group of Americans that urgently and rightfully want Dictator Barack Obama out of office and are either A. Supporting Romney or B. Supporting neither because they feel that either one may lead America further astray.

....

These two groups Ive described in group A. and B. are both fighters for America, but surely we can develop some kind of understanding between groups and a gentlman's and gentlewoman's agreement on the issue on how to conduct ourselves with fellow patriots with which we have a difference of opinion.

How do you feel about this suggestion?

W

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Where is the problem exactly? Is there a problem with conduct between these two groups? Could you give an example?

If people want to support Romney, that's fine, even though I am reluctant to do so. At this point I am supporting neither, but this is not carved in stone, I could change my mind. We still have a long way to go until November, and Romney may yet give good cause for supporting him. What I would like to see happen is for Romney to win without me having voted for him and this may happen. This would be the best possible thing to happen, that Romney would win, but with most of the registered voter turning out, like I do so often, to vote "none of the above".

We saw something similar to this when McCain was running against Obama. I recall that I was absolutely hostile to McCain's candidacy. If I were to hope for conduct between A and B, it would be that nobody who refuses to support Romney be condemned as supporting Obama and also it not be advanced that voting for Romney was the only natural thing to do. As far as not inciting against Romney's candidacy, that's not going to happen, I'm sure. Romney isn't anything like the loathsome little rat that McCain is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ALIPAC

the group of Americans that urgently and rightfully want Dictator Barack Obama out of office and are either A. Supporting Romney or B. Supporting neither because they feel that either one may lead America further astray.

Can you really blame anyone that feels as those in category B do if you have been reading much of what Mitt Romney has said lately?

Or better yet, how about all you people that voted for Bush like I did in 2000? I'm just glad that disaster did not get my vote twice. I voted Constitution Party as write in back in 2006! And in the end I feel better than all of my friends that had to push a button twice for the King Bush!

A lot of us Americans know the horror of having hope that the next candidate is actually going to help America and then watch step by step as those hopes and expectations are brutally crushed by powerful men and women that either could care less about this country or are to intentionally instigate what I call "The Controlled Demolition of America."

Mitt Romney, you want to give millions of illegal aliens citizenship by putting them trough training in the military or US National guard so your illegal alien servants can have full 1st world military training? It's hard not to be rude when I respond to that nonsense.

The Mitt Romney and Obama Psychophants are beyond reach, but perhaps some of the rest of us can agree that we understand people who want to play the "Mitt Romney might save us" game and those that have played that game so many times that they are fed up and done with it.

The truth is that America's entire political system is in a state of collapse due to the heavy pressure or oppression at the top and lie after lie coming from the forked snake tongues of Republicrats.

These two groups Ive described in group A. and B. are both fighters for America, but surely we can develop some kind of understanding between groups and a gentlman's and gentlewoman's agreement on the issue on how to conduct ourselves with fellow patriots with which we have a difference of opinion.

How do you feel about this suggestion?

W

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I can certainly understand and respect your position even though I strongly disagree with it. Obama is a complete disaster. Four more years of Obama and our borders will be permanently ripped open. Romney at least gives us a shred of hope. Thats our only choice at this point.

Bush was a complete disaster, then Obama was a complete disaster, now America is a complete disaster.

I understand and respect the rush to cling on to Mitt Romney in the hopes he will be a life preserver for America, however I think it is prudent that we go ahead and fully prepare ourselves for the very real possibility that Mitt Romney is the latest successor for a Global aristocracy that now rules the United States leading us into one disastrous Presidency after another.

Disastrous for American citizens like us, beneficial for Global corporations, Mexicans, China, Saudi Arabia, and those that hate Americans.

Yes, Obama the dictator must be punished with removal from office.

But Mitt Romney's plan to put millions of illegal aliens through the US Military and give them full voting and citizenship rights along with their training in advanced military tactics and weapons training will also prove disastrous for America and appears to be consistent with the big plan illegal immigration plays in the plan to demolish America.

We can support Romney over Obama while speaking the truth about his positions right?

W

W

I think the best strategy is to ignore the presidential election as a hope for confronting illegal immigration. We should plan for a new president assuming they are not going to do anything about it and continue our focus on what we are doing now and will continue to do to drive out illegal immigrants without compromise or surrender. We should not pause anticipating what is going to happen in November. By waiting for these events, like the Supreme Court decision, we can be manipulated to slow down struggles in the states and local communities against illegal immigrants. Instead, the momentum we generate should be great enough to render impotent anything the Obamination hopes to accomplish if he wins a second term and great enough to intimidate Romney into falling into line if he wins a first.

We should be ready for anything and working now without pause or distraction for throwing out illegal immigrants now, not when some ideal setting has been accomplished. Every day, every week, every month we are not laboring to do this is time wasted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pkskyali

I think the best strategy is to ignore the presidential election as a hope for confronting illegal immigration. We should plan for a new president assuming they are not going to do anything about it and continue our focus on what we are doing now and will continue to do to drive out illegal immigrants without compromise or surrender. We should not pause anticipating what is going to happen in November. By waiting for these events, like the Supreme Court decision, we can be manipulated to slow down struggles in the states and local communities against illegal immigrants. Instead, the momentum we generate should be great enough to render impotent anything the Obamination hopes to accomplish if he wins a second term and great enough to intimidate Romney into falling into line if he wins a first.

We should be ready for anything and working now without pause or distraction for throwing out illegal immigrants now, not when some ideal setting has been accomplished. Every day, every week, every month we are not laboring to do this is time wasted.

---

If that's the best we can hope for then we're already doomed. The future looks incredibly bleak if all we're doing is playing defense president after president. We do a good job of lobbying Congress to stop amnesty, but when are we going to get on the offense and actually get laws passed at the federal level? Obama and Romney sure as hell will never take the initiative to propose strict anti illegal laws, much less will a divided Congress pass it. What we need is a President that will take initiative and we're not going to get that from either of these two. So what? We have to wait another 4 years and hope the American public wakes up and picks the right guy? And then if that doesn't work, another 4 years? It's like a never ending cycle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by googler

If that's the best we can hope for then we're already doomed. The future looks incredibly bleak if all we're doing is playing defense president after president. We do a good job of lobbying Congress to stop amnesty, but when are we going to get on the offense and actually get laws passed at the federal level? Obama and Romney sure as hell will never take the initiative to propose strict anti illegal laws, much less will a divided Congress pass it. What we need is a President that will take initiative and we're not going to get that from either of these two. So what? We have to wait another 4 years and hope the American public wakes up and picks the right guy? And then if that doesn't work, another 4 years? It's like a never ending cycle.

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I think you've completely missed my point and furthermore to that, it is another waste of time complaining about the obvious without sweating for solutions. I would suggest less time with the prognosis and more time for solutions. Which is again my point. Waiting around for a good president is wasting time and resources and might even be surrendering to a strategy posed by the opposition. The presidency is not all there is to making things work here in the US.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pkskyali

I think you've completely missed my point and furthermore to that, it is another waste of time complaining about the obvious without sweating for solutions. I would suggest less time with the prognosis and more time for solutions. Which is again my point. Waiting around for a good president is wasting time and resources and might even be surrendering to a strategy posed by the opposition. The presidency is not all there is to making things work here in the US.

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You cannot generate "momentum" if the people do not see any progress being made at the federal level. This "momentum" has existed for over a decade, but it never grows to critical mass, because like I said, people need to see that their actions actually affect change. You need Congress and the President to acknowledge the momentum and we have yet to see any recognition except when we get on the defense on federal amnesty. Then it's a couple of years of silence until another form of amnesty comes along.

Perhaps I have zero creativity or imagination, but exactly can we do without the Presidency, Congress, or Supreme Court? We need the first two in order to pass federal laws and to thus to fuel the momentum.

Folks, we need to get real. Whether you recognize it or not, we are in a ALL HANDS ON DECK emergency and there is no room for weepy political or personal sentiment! It's that simple. The prognosis is clear if Obama is re-elected. He would become a lame duck with an open path ahead....all destructive. Our ship is listing badly and Obama will put the final torpedo in us if he gets a second chance. Like it or not, the citizens of this country CANNOT afford to put the future of our country in jeopardy by not voting or voting for a third party. Despite our desire for the perfect candidate, this isn't a luxury we can afford. We HAVE to stop the bleeding! Unless I am totally blind, Romney will be nominated as the Republican candidate and any third party candidate will in all likelihood be spoilers taking votes away from Romney. Things are in motion as we all know to begin putting constitutionally qualified and Constitution loving candidates into office at the local, state and national levels. The task ahead will be painful as we rebuild one step at a time. But it MUST be done. We will have plenty of opportunity to exert influence over Romney and his administration. Remember, there will be new Tea Party candidates in office who know they must toe the line. They know that citizens are ANGRY and ULTRA alert to political shenanigans of any kind. Let's get Obama OUT of office (and ideally in prison where he belongs) and hold our new congress and President feet to the bonfire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pkskyali

I think you've completely missed my point and furthermore to that, it is another waste of time complaining about the obvious without sweating for solutions. I would suggest less time with the prognosis and more time for solutions. Which is again my point. Waiting around for a good president is wasting time and resources and might even be surrendering to a strategy posed by the opposition. The presidency is not all there is to making things work here in the US.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Folks, we need to get real. Whether you recognize it or not, we are in a ALL HANDS ON DECK emergency and there is no room for weepy political or personal sentiment! It's that simple. The prognosis is clear if Obama is re-elected. He would become a lame duck with an open path ahead....all destructive. Our ship is listing badly and Obama will put the final torpedo in us if he gets a second chance. Like it or not, the citizens of this country CANNOT afford to put the future of our country in jeopardy by not voting or voting for a third party. Despite our desire for the perfect candidate, this isn't a luxury we can afford. We HAVE to stop the bleeding! Unless I am totally blind, Romney will be nominated as the Republican candidate and any third party candidate will in all likelihood be spoilers taking votes away from Romney. Things are in motion as we all know to begin putting constitutionally qualified and Constitution loving candidates into office at the local, state and national levels. The task ahead will be painful as we rebuild one step at a time. But it MUST be done. We will have plenty of opportunity to exert influence over Romney and his administration. Remember, there will be new Tea Party candidates in office who know they must toe the line. They know that citizens are ANGRY and ULTRA alert to political shenanigans of any kind. Let's get Obama OUT of office (and ideally in prison where he belongs) and hold our new congress and President feet to the bonfire.

---

The only thing we can really do is go and vote, kick them all out, starting from the bottom up and hope it all clicks in, especially vote those on the top out... If they really represent you vote them back in,if they follow the constitution, and adhere to the oath of office they take give them another shot you know the drill. Let them all know you will not go along with any of their stupid laws they think they can put on us and give them a fight at every turn on everything they try and do. Heck especially if it goes against our rights and freedoms stop being cattle, sheeple or what ever you call it. Let them know enough is enough. Remember these people work for us not the other way around and we are not their slaves for goodness sake...Everyone needs to wake up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by googler

You cannot generate "momentum" if the people do not see any progress being made at the federal level. This "momentum" has existed for over a decade, but it never grows to critical mass, because like I said, people need to see that their actions actually affect change. You need Congress and the President to acknowledge the momentum and we have yet to see any recognition except when we get on the defense on federal amnesty. Then it's a couple of years of silence until another form of amnesty comes along.

Perhaps I have zero creativity or imagination, but exactly can we do without the Presidency, Congress, or Supreme Court? We need the first two in order to pass federal laws and to thus to fuel the momentum.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Folks, we need to get real. Whether you recognize it or not, we are in a ALL HANDS ON DECK emergency and there is no room for weepy political or personal sentiment! It's that simple. The prognosis is clear if Obama is re-elected. He would become a lame duck with an open path ahead....all destructive. Our ship is listing badly and Obama will put the final torpedo in us if he gets a second chance. Like it or not, the citizens of this country CANNOT afford to put the future of our country in jeopardy by not voting or voting for a third party. Despite our desire for the perfect candidate, this isn't a luxury we can afford. We HAVE to stop the bleeding! Unless I am totally blind, Romney will be nominated as the Republican candidate and any third party candidate will in all likelihood be spoilers taking votes away from Romney. Things are in motion as we all know to begin putting constitutionally qualified and Constitution loving candidates into office at the local, state and national levels. The task ahead will be painful as we rebuild one step at a time. But it MUST be done. We will have plenty of opportunity to exert influence over Romney and his administration. Remember, there will be new Tea Party candidates in office who know they must toe the line. They know that citizens are ANGRY and ULTRA alert to political shenanigans of any kind. Let's get Obama OUT of office (and ideally in prison where he belongs) and hold our new congress and President feet to the bonfire.

---

Both are true. But neither contradict my thinking. Again,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pkskyali

I think the best strategy is to ignore the presidential election as a hope for confronting illegal immigration. We should plan for a new president assuming they are not going to do anything about it and continue our focus on what we are doing now and will continue to do to drive out illegal immigrants without compromise or surrender. We should not pause anticipating what is going to happen in November. By waiting for these events, like the Supreme Court decision, we can be manipulated to slow down struggles in the states and local communities against illegal immigrants. Instead, the momentum we generate should be great enough to render impotent anything the Obamination hopes to accomplish if he wins a second term and great enough to intimidate Romney into falling into line if he wins a first.

We should be ready for anything and working now without pause or distraction for throwing out illegal immigrants now, not when some ideal setting has been accomplished. Every day, every week, every month we are not laboring to do this is time wasted.

---

Why do we have to see progress being made at the federal level? We already have the laws. It is more work to undermine the laws then it is to enforce them. They aren't going to make laws decriminalizing illegal immigrants. The best hope they have is amnesty and amnesty is an admission of guilt. We already had an amnesty and it was the super-duper arch-conservative Ronald Reagan that gave it to them. The best they can hope for is to be subversive which does a lot of damage, but none of it permanent.

The integrity of our citizenship is at stake and if you will not stand for that first where you are now, irregardless of who is in the White House, then your vote isn't worth anything anyway.

What I've heard Romney say is that he is not for discussing any kind of amnesty until and after the border is secured first. Both parties want the hispanic vote and so the hedging. I do hope that marco rubio does NOT make VP yet we do need something that will pulling the hispanics vote ( legal hispanic vote ) many of them also do NOT want illegals here.

may i inject something here...i do believe that when it comes to laying your life on the line for military service in exchange for US citizenship...that there will be few illegals with the character to want to serve...and that those who would serve will most likely be the ones who will assimilate into the USA. I am in no way for an amnesty in fact i would like to see the doors shut for at least 5 years to any new immigration and/or new legal foreign workers.

If you look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of illegals...then look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of unemployed, you will see that 7 out of 10 those 2 sets of numbers are almost identical...which means that illegals ARE replacing US citizens in the workplace..they are the cause that US citizens are being laid off. When you couple that with illegal aliens who own companies who hire only illegals...both employees and illegal owner NONE of whom pay taxes...the illegal companies put legal companies who do pay taxes out of biz.

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Originally Posted by bamissfa

may i inject something here...i do believe that when it comes to laying your life on the line for military service in exchange for US citizenship...that there will be few illegals with the character to want to serve...and that those who would serve will most likely be the ones who will assimilate into the USA. I am in no way for an amnesty in fact i would like to see the doors shut for at least 5 years to any new immigration and/or new legal foreign workers.

If you look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of illegals...then look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of unemployed, you will see that 7 out of 10 those 2 sets of numbers are almost identical...which means that illegals ARE replacing US citizens in the workplace..they are the cause that US citizens are being laid off. When you couple that with illegal aliens who own companies who hire only illegals...both employees and illegal owner NONE of whom pay taxes...the illegal companies put legal companies who do pay taxes out of biz.

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Doesn't matter how assimilated they are, the point is they're here illegally, PERIOD. There is a waiting line to get into this country legally and everyone must abide by the rules. Romney wants to give a pass to those who want to join the military, you can call it what you want, but that's AMNESTY. He's a traitor to this country for even suggesting such an idea. But alas, if we cannot get a viable third candidate (time is running out and America is not taking action to make this happen) the best we can hope for is for a tie between Obama and Romney to throw everything into a tail spin. This country is doomed no matter who wins unfortunately.

And another thing, I keep hearing that Romney refuses to take a firm and decisive stance on illegal immigration because he does not want to fall into a political trap? And what trap is this exactly? That he might alienate the illegal voting bloc??? He's afraid to alienate a people who are not supposed to vote or be here in the first place? What the **** is this? Next, he'll formulate a strategy to not offend the prison population.

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Originally Posted by googler

....

And another thing, I keep hearing that Romney refuses to take a firm and decisive stance on illegal immigration because he does not want to fall into a political trap? And what trap is this exactly? That he might alienate the illegal voting bloc??? He's afraid to alienate a people who are not supposed to vote or be here in the first place? What the **** is this? Next, he'll formulate a strategy to not offend the prison population.

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That's an excellent point. If he is not afraid of offending illegals as a voting block, then he must be afraid of offending people who defend the right of people to come here illegally. And who are those people and why can't we shame them into removing themselves from the debate?

I don't think it is possible for illegals to join the military. I'd like a confirmation that Romney has actually said this before I believe it. See also this thread here:

http://www.alipac.us/f12/clearing-ai...action-260340/

Save the doom and gloom. It's time to buck up and get the job done. We work with what we've got. All the whining in the world about how bad Romney is doesn't help to solve the problem at hand. One can either choose to sit back and say it's all lost or they can make up their mind that they won't EVER give up the fight. We need to learn from the greatest generation who enlisted by the millions to fight against the Axis powers who by all accounts of the time were unstoppable. Our parents/grandparents didn't give up or give in and neither should we. We OWE them that much.

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Originally Posted by googler

Doesn't matter how assimilated they are, the point is they're here illegally, PERIOD. There is a waiting line to get into this country legally and everyone must abide by the rules. Romney wants to give a pass to those who want to join the military, you can call it what you want, but that's AMNESTY. He's a traitor to this country for even suggesting such an idea. But alas, if we cannot get a viable third candidate (time is running out and America is not taking action to make this happen) the best we can hope for is for a tie between Obama and Romney to throw everything into a tail spin. This country is doomed no matter who wins unfortunately.

And another thing, I keep hearing that Romney refuses to take a firm and decisive stance on illegal immigration because he does not want to fall into a political trap? And what trap is this exactly? That he might alienate the illegal voting bloc??? He's afraid to alienate a people who are not supposed to vote or be here in the first place? What the **** is this? Next, he'll formulate a strategy to not offend the prison population.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bamissfa

may i inject something here...i do believe that when it comes to laying your life on the line for military service in exchange for US citizenship...that there will be few illegals with the character to want to serve...and that those who would serve will most likely be the ones who will assimilate into the USA. I am in no way for an amnesty in fact i would like to see the doors shut for at least 5 years to any new immigration and/or new legal foreign workers.

If you look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of illegals...then look up the top 10 US states with the highest number of unemployed, you will see that 7 out of 10 those 2 sets of numbers are almost identical...which means that illegals ARE replacing US citizens in the workplace..they are the cause that US citizens are being laid off. When you couple that with illegal aliens who own companies who hire only illegals...both employees and illegal owner NONE of whom pay taxes...the illegal companies put legal companies who do pay taxes out of biz.

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Right now a lot of American citizens are joining the military to be able to have a hope for the future, to feed their families, and to live and survive this horrific economic time. Now, illegal aliens will be in those military slots and will soon return to to a neighborhood near you with guns, training, voting rights, and a chip on their shoulders a mile wide.

US Military trained illegal aliens.... oh we already have those. They are called Los Zetas.

Anyone that accepts Romney's military service for amnesty plan is sealing the fate of America. If enough conservatives are desperate enough to support that plan thinking it is an answer to Obama, then the poison will go down and while the effects will not be immediate, the damage will be done and irreversible.

Dump that cool aid on the ground and step back from it for the sake of us all please.

The military service language is just the "Sell it to republicans" pitch. We all know that they will use that limited amnesty to go for the full amnesty.

Our backs are already against a wall, we cannot afford to give anymore. There is nothing left to give we are teetering on the edge of national oblivion already.

W

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Originally Posted by ALIPAC

Right now a lot of American citizens are joining the military to be able to have a hope for the future, to feed their families, and to live and survive this horrific economic time. Now, illegal aliens will be in those military slots and will soon return to to a neighborhood near you with guns, training, voting rights, and a chip on their shoulders a mile wide.

US Military trained illegal aliens.... oh we already have those. They are called Los Zetas.

Anyone that accepts Romney's military service for amnesty plan is sealing the fate of America. If enough conservatives are desperate enough to support that plan thinking it is an answer to Obama, then the poison will go down and while the effects will not be immediate, the damage will be done and irreversible.

Dump that cool aid on the ground and step back from it for the sake of us all please.

The military service language is just the "Sell it to republicans" pitch. We all know that they will use that limited amnesty to go for the full amnesty.

Our backs are already against a wall, we cannot afford to give anymore. There is nothing left to give we are teetering on the edge of national oblivion already.

W

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With all due respect, exactly who do you expect us to vote on if not Romney? IMHO, your comments on illegals in the military involves a lot of speculation because illegals aren't currently allowed to serve in the military and there is certainly no guarantee that Romney can make such a thing happen, just like Bush couldn't make amnesty happen. Furthermore, the military is currently being reduced and many of those now serving are being rejected for reenlistment (tighter standards) to aid in trimming the forces. Basically what I'm saying is a lot will have to happen before such a plan come to fruitation. Do I support such a plan, heck no, but I definitely don't support the full blown Dream Act the Obama administration supports either!


I'm also forced to ask myself, exactly how many English speaking illegal immigrants would qualify under the tighter standards and how many would be interested in serving to earn citizenship? I suspect the number would be very marginal, especially since the potential eligibility pool would only be the so-called dreamers.

I still say we only have two choices in November .......... Obama or Romney. Personally, I don't feel I have much of a choice when making my decision on where my vote will go. Folks can rationalize all they want but in my mind Romney is the only choice. It's to the point where we would be better served concentrating more on Senate and House elections. Not trying to be disagreeable, just sharing my thoughts on the issue.

I'm not telling anyone to not vote for Mitt Romney.

What I am saying very clearly and specifically is that I have a concern that some conservatives will begin to accept Mitt Romney and Rubio's amnesty sales job as a price they think they must pay to get rid of Obama who horrifies them. Thus, horror over Obama leads people usually on our side to submit to something they would not usually agree to.

I believe that is a danger we face in this situation. Ive had several people write me and tell me that they were OK with Mitt Romney's amnesty plans because that is what was needed to have a chance at beating Obama because they believe this "Latino Vote" mythology being repeated by the propagandizing media over and over and over again.

W

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Originally Posted by MW

With all due respect, exactly who do you expect us to vote on if not Romney? IMHO, your comments on illegals in the military involves a lot of speculation because illegals aren't currently allowed to serve in the military and there is certainly no guarantee that Romney can make such a thing happen, just like Bush couldn't make amnesty happen. Furthermore, the military is currently being reduced and many of those now serving are being rejected for reenlistment (tighter standards) to aid in trimming the forces. Basically what I'm saying is a lot will have to happen before such a plan come to fruitation. Do I support such a plan, heck no, but I definitely don't support the full blown Dream Act the Obama administration supports either!


I'm also forced to ask myself, exactly how many English speaking illegal immigrants would qualify under the tighter standards and how many would be interested in serving to earn citizenship? I suspect the number would be very marginal, especially since the potential eligibility pool would only be the so-called dreamers.

I still say we only have two choices in November .......... Obama or Romney. Personally, I don't feel I have much of a choice when making my decision on where my vote will go. Folks can rationalize all they want but in my mind Romney is the only choice. It's to the point where we would be better served concentrating more on Senate and House elections. Not trying to be disagreeable, just sharing my thoughts on the issue.

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The military is currently being reduced, but I have to wonder with both of them wanting to engage in yet another war with Iran on behalf of Israel, that they'll ratchet up enlistment again and start accepting just about anyone for their little war game. And doesn't Romney disagree with Obama on Afghanistan's troop draw-down? You have the Middle East and Mexico on the verge of complete chaos and these two globalists can't wait to commit our stressed out armed forces to more war games. Perhaps this explains Romney's position on illegals in the military. The war with Iran is inevitable no matter who wins.

Focusing on the Senate and House elections is not enough when you have a divided country never before seen. Americans are unhappy with Congress, but all seem perfectly fine with their own elected politicians, so you're going to end up with a divided congress where either party will filibuster or block legislation in either chamber and so nothing meaningful gets done. We need a President that's not a Democrat or Republican that can rally the American people to get behind him and against both parties in Congress. Then and only then can we begin to make real progress and take back this country from these fools, all of them.

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Originally Posted by ALIPAC

I'm not telling anyone to not vote for Mitt Romney.

What I am saying very clearly and specifically is that I have a concern that some conservatives will begin to accept Mitt Romney and Rubio's amnesty sales job as a price they think they must pay to get rid of Obama who horrifies them. Thus, horror over Obama leads people usually on our side to submit to something they would not usually agree to.

I believe that is a danger we face in this situation. Ive had several people write me and tell me that they were OK with Mitt Romney's amnesty plans because that is what was needed to have a chance at beating Obama because they believe this "Latino Vote" mythology being repeated by the propagandizing media over and over and over again.

W

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I understand what you're saying, and trust me, I'm not okay with any amnesty plan. However, that being said, I still can't see that we have a lot of options available to us. Until someone can show me a better way to get rid of Obama, voting Romney is the only way I know.

Well, all of these considerations are going to be moot as far as ALIPAC is concerned if we dont find some miraculous way to raise $10,000 in 5 days time. :(

Each time we tell our supporters more about Obama's dictatorial actions that lobbying and voting cant fix the more they are clamming up or throwing their hands up etc...

W

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MW

With all due respect, exactly who do you expect us to vote on if not Romney? IMHO, your comments on illegals in the military involves a lot of speculation because illegals aren't currently allowed to serve in the military and there is certainly no guarantee that Romney can make such a thing happen, just like Bush couldn't make amnesty happen. Furthermore, the military is currently being reduced and many of those now serving are being rejected for reenlistment (tighter standards) to aid in trimming the forces. Basically what I'm saying is a lot will have to happen before such a plan come to fruitation. Do I support such a plan, heck no, but I definitely don't support the full blown Dream Act the Obama administration supports either!


I'm also forced to ask myself, exactly how many English speaking illegal immigrants would qualify under the tighter standards and how many would be interested in serving to earn citizenship? I suspect the number would be very marginal, especially since the potential eligibility pool would only be the so-called dreamers.

I still say we only have two choices in November .......... Obama or Romney. Personally, I don't feel I have much of a choice when making my decision on where my vote will go. Folks can rationalize all they want but in my mind Romney is the only choice. It's to the point where we would be better served concentrating more on Senate and House elections. Not trying to be disagreeable, just sharing my thoughts on the issue.

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And there good thoughts but then we are left with the lesser of two evils again, now tell me is that what you want????? The same ole same ole.... We still have Ron Paul running. Gary Johnson is running....All W is saying is that there is no difference between the two parties. They both are leading us to the one world order/government, with loss of our Counties sovereignty and all our freedoms and our Republic in record time. Now again is that what you want? Right now they all have so much power that who ever we vote will not matter only what the powers that be want to get in, will get in. There is an answer but very few want that let along mention it. So instead we all sit like sitting ducks...quacking.

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Originally Posted by kathyet

And there good thoughts but then we are left with the lesser of two evils again, now tell me is that what you want????? The same ole same ole.... We still have Ron Paul running. Gary Johnson is running....All W is saying is that there is no difference between the two parties. They both are leading us to the one world order/government, with loss of our Counties sovereignty and all our freedoms and our Republic in record time. Now again is that what you want? Right now they all have so much power that who ever we vote will not matter only what the powers that be want to get in, will get in. There is an answer but very few want that let along mention it. So instead we all sit like sitting ducks...quacking.

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I don't know much about Gary Johnson but I do know that Paul isn't a very good choice either. As a congressman he has, among other things, voted on amnesty before, voted against military on the border numerous times, does not support a border fence, and also believes in increasing visas for foreign labor. Oh, and he also supports "free trade" vice "fair trade."

Obama is completely hopeless. Romney is slightly hopeful. Thats enough for me to vote for him.

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Originally Posted by Acebackwords

Obama is completely hopeless. Romney is slightly hopeful. Thats enough for me to vote for him.

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I am pretty sure most here agree Obama is a complete disaster on illegal immigration, but Romney is not far behind. But as long as politicians get accustomed to the fact that you only have to be "slightly" better than your opponent on illegal immigration in order to win our vote, then we're not doing our job in instilling fear into their heads. That our vote is not to be taken for granted simply because you're not the other guy. We want to profoundly change the way this government treats us right? Both parties view their voters the same way and take them for granted.

Imagine Romney spies scouring this forum looking to gauge our opinion. What they might take away is that their candidate is safe because so many here will vote for him no matter what. And so they report back and they decide there's little urgency for him to change position on illegal immigration because they'll vote for him no matter what it seems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by googler

I am pretty sure most here agree Obama is a complete disaster on illegal immigration, but Romney is not far behind. But as long as politicians get accustomed to the fact that you only have to be "slightly" better than your opponent on illegal immigration in order to win our vote, then we're not doing our job in instilling fear into their heads. That our vote is not to be taken for granted simply because you're not the other guy. We want to profoundly change the way this government treats us right? Both parties view their voters the same way and take them for granted.

Imagine Romney spies scouring this forum looking to gauge our opinion. What they might take away is that their candidate is safe because so many here will vote for him no matter what. And so they report back and they decide there's little urgency for him to change position on illegal immigration because they'll vote for him no matter what it seems.

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I would respecfully disagree. While Romney is not perfect on immigration, he is nowhere near Obama on the iissue (not even close). I have given my reasons for believing this in previous posts.