Thread: What americans can do to help stop illegal immigration.

Originally Posted by UnemployedAmerican

You actually could find another job if you have a college degree, but at your age you are in a tight spot. For example, you can't join the fire department because of age limitations. You could get a security job, but that won't pay enough and a construction job is out of the question because of illegal immigration, but keep an eye out, you might be able to get a desk job.

Stop it, your killin me

Was that supposed to be funny, because I fell out of my chair laughing!

Hey sorry, I know it's not easy for you.

When the market is flooded with too much labor, then people are put out of work and the wages decline.

There was a time in America that a man could work a blue collar job could provide for his family, without a college education.

Dixie

Originally Posted by Dixie

There was a time in America that a man could work a blue collar job could provide for his family, without a college education.

Dixie

I miss those days!!!

Welcome aliendroid!

I presently am a member of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and I am unemployed now for 9 nine months.
While I am unemployed illegal immigrants are working for contractors that do not adhere to basic codes that are supposed to be adhered to in the the area.
Buildings have collapsed and deaths are now rampant,all because of greed.
I hear all over the radio on conservative stations how the union men and women are just asking for to much money and the benefits are killing us,yet their bids on the job are not that much lower than ours and their work in a word is pathetic.
Why is my country acting as a hiring hall for criminals?
They build them shelters,pass out coffeee,and pretty much kiss their ass.
While at the same time try to break down what my brothers and sisters who are AMERICANS have fought very hard to achieve.
These are middle class jobs that are being given away to people who have invaded OUR country.
They also import trained(in college) skilled labor that is creating high unemployment in the white collar side of labor.If these politicians can do this,why are we not allowed to outsource their jobs?

By the way every one of my Union brothers are required in our apprenticeship to attend college and recieve an associate degree in addition to the studies of electrical theory.all while working an eight to 12 hour day under extreme conditions.
And this is throughout the industry.My fellow brothers in the carpenters,steamfitters,ironworkers,plumbers,paint ers.tapers,paperhangers.
Seems to me that this is quite a few jobs that are being stolen by illegals.
It is impossible to compete against a man who gets his benefits for free(you and I pay for them)and that sleeps with twenty other people to share expenses.
Maybe one day they will get to your job.I certainly hope not,because it is tough to look in your sons and daughter eyes and feel like a failure and still be able to take him to parades and wave an AMERICAN FLAG(MADE IN CHINA) and tell him how great their country is.
I truly hope it never happens to you.
But if they can raise the stock value,THEY WILL.
God Bless America and God Bless you!

Originally Posted by THEMAN

Why is my country acting as a hiring hall for criminals?
They build them shelters,pass out coffeee,and pretty much kiss their ass.
While at the same time try to break down what my brothers and sisters who are AMERICANS have fought very hard to achieve.
These are middle class jobs that are being given away to people who have invaded OUR country.

I truly hope it never happens to you.
But if they can raise the stock value,THEY WILL.
God Bless America and God Bless you!

I agree with you completely THEMAN. Our business is in one of the trades you mentioned. Whereas landscapers and painters, etc., have suffered from the invasion, I thought we would be safe because of the strict codes and licensing requirements. That was wishful thinking I guess.

Employers are at fault for hiring for illegals, politicans are at fault by giving illegals benefits, judges are at fault by even allowing illegals in court except for crimes, charities are at fault by sheltering illegals and giving aid that was suppose to go to Americans to illegals, and banks are at fault by giving credit and transferring money for illegals while the average American suffers due illegals. No job is safe, since companies are hiring hispanic speakers so that they can provide support to illegals instead of making illegals speak English.

Welcome to aliendriod.

But, THEMAN (love the userID BTW) makes some really good points.
There is an underlying assumption that simply gaining/better education is NECESSARILY the predictable and unimpeded pathway to a better standard of living (ie. job). While this *may be* true for certain people in certain circumstances, this, by no means has been a universal experience for all of our science-degreed graduates.

There are 2 big factors that are working against this assumption -

1. There are a large number of equally highly educated engineers (have (science/engineering degrees') that unemployed or underemployed already (approaching 1 million at any given point in time lately)

AND

2. Mean compensation levels have been falling in the last 5-6 years.
(eg. so even *if* people thought the extra rigorousness were worth in it terms of education, the job that is eventually landed in the end is going to pay less anyway)

So, the explanation that simply 'go get yourself a science degree' isn't necessarily the one-size-fits-all answer that is likely to address the problem - the reality is more complex and nuanced than that.

I would suggest that the problem lies not so much in the number of graduates of a certain type or kind (after all, the proportion of people employed in the high-tech/IT/engineering fields is surprisingly *small* in the total economy) ... but, in sheer economics and greed. It has more to do with people in positions of power turning their backs on people that have already fulfilled the basic requirements to do what is needed for themselves, the economy and their country and 'doing' for someone else because they can pad their greedy pockets at the expense of the their fellow citizen and neighbor.

We have had a number of new users sign-up lately and outline this contention in recent weeks - it is getting rather old.

This is actually a misunderstanding of news hype. High level jobs have been increasing in pay over the last few decades while lower level jobs have remained stagnant.


My point is that we are in a shifting economy. Let's consider an industry that is somewhat limited due to high costs today that has three companies competeing without any room for more companies to enter the industry. Each company has 1000 employees, about 800 low level and 200 high level jobs. Now, you add automation and robotics and offshoring, which eliminates in the end about 500 low level jobs over a period of time in each company. Over this time the huge savings due to removing those employees goes into further growth. Each company is able to about double in size while 2 new companies were able to enter the industry due to their ability to start off with automation and offshoring. Each original company had to hire another 100 high level employees at managament, R&D, and high level software jobs and about 300 low level jobs that can't be automated or offshored and each new company grew to 100 higher level employees in the USA and 300 new low level jobs. So we started with 3000 employees at first, then they dropped about 1500 employees. After that the industry saw a net gain 2000 employees. This is why the USA now has more jobs then ever in its history. We have sent millions of jobs offshore and we've lost millions of jobs to automation and yet we have more then ever.

The real problem with this is that some individuals will not be able to be reemployed and the government will end up having to take care of them while they are retrained to do something else, but if we have 35 million unemployable undocumented moochers as well, and we will have 35 million if the border isn't closed, there will probably not be much money to go around and certainly not enough to go into retraining and education and I wouldn't be surprised if unemployeed real americans get the shaft and end up not getting welfare, while ilegals do.

After illegals lose their jobs to automation, the situation in the medical field is going to get worse as well as crime rates. Crime rates are going to become out of control.

High level jobs have been increasing in pay over the last few decades while lower level jobs have remained stagnant

a). I wasn't talking about 'high-level jobs' - I was specifically mentioning high-tech/IT/engineering fields. 'high-level jobs' could mean just about anything you want it to.

b). I wasn't taking about a time frame 'over the last few decades' - I specifically mentioned that last 5-6 years. The peak period in which immigration/illegal immigration/importation of foreign workers has reached a peak (according to USCIS statistics). Yes, over decades the trend has been upward - but, if you focus specifically on the last few years, there has been a marked levelling off or dip for many higher end technical jobs.

Each company has 1000 employees, about 800 low level and 200 high level jobs. Now, you add automation and robotics and offshoring, which eliminates in the end about 500 low level jobs over a period of time in each company. Over this time the huge savings due to removing those employees goes into further growth. Each company is able to about double in size while 2 new companies were able to enter the industry due to their ability to start off with automation and offshoring. Each original company had to hire another 100 high level employees at managament, R&D, and high level software jobs and about 300 low level jobs that can't be automated or offshored and each new company grew to 100 higher level employees in the USA and 300 new low level jobs. So we started with 3000 employees at first, then they dropped about 1500 employees. After that the industry saw a net gain 2000 employees.

Huh? Sorry, but your example is based just a bit too much in the theoretical and not backed up with facts for this reader. Yeah, we're in a 'changing economy' - so what? The roots of the problem lie more in the nature of a shift in the nature of political and economic power itself - corporations, especially multi-national corporations, are becoming too powerful and able to influence national policies and legislation in a way not seen in about 100 years.

Over this time the huge savings due to removing those employees goes into further growth

Really? Are you so sure? Maybe those saving are being used to pad shareholders dividends, or boost CEO salaries too.

This is why the USA now has more jobs then ever in its history. We have sent millions of jobs offshore and we've lost millions of jobs to automation and yet we have more then ever.

If I were to go along with your belief that 'we have more jobs than ever' (which, in all honesty, I probably don't - but I'll blow past that right now), what goes unaddressed is that the *quality* of those jobs is waning. Having a large number of jobs is nice, but if those are not family -supporting income levels do they really matter? Do you want us to live 18 people in a crowded town-house like we hear about so often in the news lately? It's not just about quantity, it's also about quality.

Also, regarding your underlying assumption that 'automation will solve many of these' problems... in some ways, I could agree with that. But, in others, I won't. This is because there do need to be jobs for the lowest-tier of workers in any economy (not everyone can be a rocket-scientist, right?) Eliminating jobs, even the lowest-level ones, from workers that need them most is not necessarily a recipe for stability and equity in the economy. In many ways, automation has displaced and harmed much of the low-skilled working population too you know.

Listen - I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not a troll. But I/we have more important things to do lately - namely stop HR1645, the WH/Senate GOP scamnesty, and then do all the local focus efforts to get states/cities involved. So, I'm not going to debate this any more. You can have your view of the world, and I'll keep mine.

So tell me - are you a US citizen?

Well, 7 of the top 10 jobs projected to be created for the next decade are menial jobs with waitress/waiter, janitor, and food preparation leading the way. And its not like obtaining a college degree keeps you safe from outsourcing. Some computer programmers and radiologists would take issue with that. Fincancial services, junior level medical and legal work etc. We have a $5 trillion trade deficit because of this, as well as China catching up to us in tech, dependance on foreigners for goods and services, pirated tech in other countries, loss of consumer privacy, loss of tax revenue, loss of sovereignty, the list goes on. Outsourcing is not the answer.