Thread: WHERE AND WHEN DID WE LOSE CONTROL....

What happned to the money. Nice blog about the Feds and the stimulus money.

http://whathappenedtothestimulusmoney.blogspot.com/

Originally Posted by kathyet

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

First the colonists lost control to the states. Then the states lost control to the United States.

Then the United States lost control to the Federal Government. Then the Federal Government lost control to the Federal Reserve.

Now we are to lose it all to the United Nations?!?!?!

I have one thing to say. If we don't get back to the Constitution really fast there is absolutely no hope.

When will we pull the big gun out and use it!!!! Remember what it is? Go here if you forgot!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3zr8ZY5 ... r_embedded

this needs to be sent to the WhiteHouse...as a required viewing...along with a copy of the "Constitution"

Kathyet

Which one do we send? The organic or the new corperate one?

Remember propaganda?

When I was a kid...the word propaganda was used a lot. I understood it to mean the communist countries lied about things. I did not really understand what those things were but... Now it seems that the world views us...the US like we use to think of socialist countries. It seems to me now that lying is a trait of socialism. And this country is really up to it's neck in lies and socialist agenda. I find that very sad.

Even more true now...

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Remember propaganda?

When I was a kid...the word propaganda was used a lot. I understood it to mean the communist countries lied about things. I did not really understand what those things were but... Now it seems that the world views us...the US like we use to think of socialist countries. It seems to me now that lying is a trait of socialism. And this country is really up to it's neck in lies and socialist agenda. I find that very sad.

They have been lying to us for generations many of us have seen it but the status quo was to ignore the problem...people are starting to wake up because of issues that hit them in their home, work and life...and pocket book...what ever the reason I am grateful I just hope it is not too late.

Kathyet

Originally Posted by kathyet

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

Remember propaganda?

When I was a kid...the word propaganda was used a lot. I understood it to mean the communist countries lied about things. I did not really understand what those things were but... Now it seems that the world views us...the US like we use to think of socialist countries. It seems to me now that lying is a trait of socialism. And this country is really up to it's neck in lies and socialist agenda. I find that very sad.

They have been lying to us for generations many of us have seen it but the status quo was to ignore the problem...people are starting to wake up because of issues that hit them in their home, work and life...and pocket book...what ever the reason I am grateful I just hope it is not too late.

Kathyet

It is getting very close to too late...

When did we lose control? December 23, 1913. And it kicked into high gear in 1933 when the United States was considered bankrupt.

This is the first I have heard of the Fair Tax. Obviously it is not getting any traction in the estabished media.

It certainly is an interesting proposal. You should consider having a discussion topic only on this subject.

I have to wonder how much money it would generate, and how volitile the revenue stream would be since it would be predicated on the purchase of non-essentials.

Accountants must be up in arms. Imagine, no more filling out of tax forms! No more IRS.

Also, would it provide a brake on government spending? Our elected reps could just raise the rate when they want more money.

But how would it work for those programs where we need to know people's income, like student financial aid? There would be no more third party paperwork to establish how much you are earning.

With respect to illegal immigration, not only would it make illegal labor more expensive, since they would not received the essential purchases rebate, but as there would no longer be employer deductions, illegal labor could not decide to work for less by working "under the table". There would be no such thing.

Judy, have you visited the Obama website for submitting ideas for change. You set out your case and then people vote. The top 10 ideas get hosted at a function in DC. This Fair Tax should be listed.

Thanks for an interesting read.

Originally Posted by Bettybb

This is the first I have heard of the Fair Tax. Obviously it is not getting any traction in the estabished media.

It certainly is an interesting proposal. You should consider having a discussion topic only on this subject.

I have to wonder how much money it would generate, and how volitile the revenue stream would be since it would be predicated on the purchase of non-essentials.

Accountants must be up in arms. Imagine, no more filling out of tax forms! No more IRS.

Also, would it provide a brake on government spending? Our elected reps could just raise the rate when they want more money.

But how would it work for those programs where we need to know people's income, like student financial aid? There would be no more third party paperwork to establish how much you are earning.

With respect to illegal immigration, not only would it make illegal labor more expensive, since they would not received the essential purchases rebate, but as there would no longer be employer deductions, illegal labor could not decide to work for less by working "under the table". There would be no such thing.

Judy, have you visited the Obama website for submitting ideas for change. You set out your case and then people vote. The top 10 ideas get hosted at a function in DC. This Fair Tax should be listed.

Thanks for an interesting read.

Oh you're most welcome, Bettybb. That is a great idea to post it on the Obama Website. I was going to but when the word got out that they were storing emails and making a list, I decided not to. If someone is already on the list, they should most definitely post about the FairTax. If you are, then I could help you post information about the proposal.

Yes, it ends all working "under the table", it ends all tax reporting and thus all avoidance and evasion, it gives American Workers a comparative advantage, it gives all our businesses and workers all the money they earned to decide to spend as they choose, all businesses are exempt for pay the FairTax on business to business transactions, and only retail businesses collect it from consumers, all consumer spending on final point of sale purchases. It saves the US $265 billion a year in lost productivity wasted on tax returns and tax reporting. For a legal family of 4 with 2 adults and 2 children, earning average household income of $50k to $60k a year, it puts a total of $16,440 back in their pockets if they sign up for the Monthly Prebate which is a FairTax Rebate paid in advance to cover the tax cost of essential spending on necessities. For business owners and employers, they no longer have to pay or withhold FICA for Social Security and MediCare and no longer have to pay any capital gains tax, income tax or interest tax. Individuals no longer have to pay Social Security or MediCare taxes, capital gains taxes, income taxes, gift taxes, dividend taxes, interest taxes or estate taxes.

Social Security and MediCare is funded through the FairTax, with 8.09% of the 23% rate split and ear-marked for Social Security and MediCare with the remaining 14.91% ear-marked for General Revenue.

The retail businesses who collect the tax and provide this service are paid a fee for doing so, as are the states who collect the tax from the retailers in their state. There's virtually no paperwork since the FairTax is just a 1 line addition to the existing state sales tax forms.

The FairTax is on all consumption of new products and services, taxed 1 time at 1 rate at the final point of sale at the retail level. Used products are exempt which encourages redevelopment, restoration and recycling as are all business to business transactions that are part of the supply chain to the final point of sale. It eliminates the extraordinary cost of taxes that are paid, marked up and compounded throughout our existing supply chain, something called embedded taxes. Prices will drop while profits, earnings, net expendable incomes and productivity will increase. Imported goods and services are taxed the same has domestic produced products, eliminating the present tax advantage of producing offshore and back-hauling into the US market. Illegal aliens are put where they should be, at a comparative disadvantage large enough for employers to say "why should I hire you and pay you more because you don't get a FairTax Rebate?"

The FairTax also recoups the $1.3 Trillion a year collected by these phony "501 C 3" tax exempt "charities" because there is no more income tax to deduct their contributions or exempt their earnings, a grotesque comparative advantage these entities should have never been given to begin with. Now that money is also re-directed back into our economy instead of being sheltered in the ploys and plots of the rich to end our nation using our own taxpayer subsidized funding to do it.

The FairTax is brilliant. The developers of this tax legislation spent $23 million back in the late 90's with 10 of the best economists in the country to develop a legacy tax system that would restore liberty and prosperity to our nation. I've studied this proposal for almost 4 years, and it is perfect on every level to do just that.

It's not getting the play in the media because the reporters and talk heads have been confused by government tax proposals like the VAT, which is just another version of embedded taxes, and the Steve Forbes "flat tax" proposal, and because they are Math Dummies who can't follow the differences between the VAT, the Flat Tax and the FairTax. If they would spend the time studying the FairTax and interview people who are experts on this legislation, then they would see the perfection of this new tax system and what it will mean to our businesses, our people and our nation.

I strongly encourage them to do so. Obviously, the FairTax has its opponents, CPAs who prepare tax returns, software companies who write tax return software, tax lawyers who prepare returns and defend tax clients, tax court judges, debt collection agencies collecting for the IRS, the IRS and socialist parasites who want mandates and forced theft by the government to line their pockets at someone else's expense using a police state to enforce it.

On cutting government spending, the FairTax is a new tax collection system and doesn't directly affect any separate appropriation bill per se, except that it wipes out the $11 billion a year cost of operating the IRS. However, through its natural course of operation it reduces government spending because it increases the net expendable incomes of all workers and earners which reduces the gap in their incomes and the family consumption allowance which means less people will qualify for entitlements because their net income is now over the limit to qualify. In addition, with individual households having more net expendable income, they will be spending more on new purchases with actual money, instead of debt and credit, which results in more cash non-credit sales for businesses which increases their net earnings which increases their profitability and ability to expand, reinvest, innovate and create jobs at better wages with better benefits which reduces federal spending on entitlement programs related to unemployment, underemployment, working poverty and poverty in general. In addition, as companies enjoy more sales and higher earnings, they can pay for their own research and big ideas, instead of turning to the federal government for corporate welfare which reduces government spending in that area. Farmers should be able to wean themselves off the government teat as well and carry their own weight, reducing considerably the cost of government programs for agriculture. Furthermore, since the federal government like all employers is no longer required to pay social security and medicare on federal employees or mark up government wages to pay for federal income tax, the cost of government workers will stabilize and start to reduce without affecting the net expendable income of the workers, which will enable all governments to reduce the cost of their operations. Finally, when Americans going home with all the money they earned to spend as they see fit, the need for government conspired loan programs like Freddie Mac and so forth, won't be necessary and the boon-doggles these programs have cost our country won't exist.

The economic advantages of the FairTax are endless. It improves every single aspect of our economy, our government, our citizens and our businesses with absolutely no down-side. Yes, IRS workers and those who work in the tax theft business will have to take their math, computer and customer service skills and find new places to apply them, in business and industry producing products and services that benefit our country or in government actually providing a public service, instead of enslave it. For anyone feeling sympathy for these people and their need to find a new job in a productive sector of our economy or a useful segment of our governments, just remind yourselves, that not one of them gave a damn about the 30 million Americans who lost their jobs to illegal immigration, outsourcing, off-shoring, free trade and mandated taxes and to my knowledge haven't audited 1 illegal alien who filed a false tax return to qualify for tax credit welfare.

For anyone interested in learning more about the FairTax, just go to their website, Americans for Fair Taxation, based in Houston, Texas, and sign up for their email alerts, FairTax Friday, and if you like what you learn about it, get involved in their political action effort to pass the FairTax in 2010. They just recruited Michael Reagan as the Chairman of the FairTax Victory Campaign. Americans for Fair Taxation is like ALIPAC, grass root citizens, small staff, small budget but big goals to help save our country. The FairTax legislation is HB 25 in the US House of Representatives, presently stuck in Charles Rangel's Ways and Means Committee and SB 296 which I believe is stuck in the Senate Finance Committee. Americans for Fair Taxation is working really hard right now to demand a committee hearing on HB 25 and is working up a Petition of signatures to deliver to Charles Rangel to force a hearing on the bill so a national debate of this great proposal can commence.

www.fairtax.org

We were trying to figure out what a car or house would end up costing without all the tax all along the line. a fair tax is an oxymoron but I really hope your plan takes hold.

Originally Posted by hardlineconstitutionalist

We were trying to figure out what a car or house would end up costing without all the tax all along the line. a fair tax is an oxymoron but I really hope your plan takes hold.

Until we have real money again in the form of gold and silver coin, it is a moot point. But just give it some scope, as 2007, the dollar was only worth .04 cents, and that is rather arbitrary, as the value I'm sure you are aware is thought up out of thin air, and is dependent upon how many fiat notes are in circulation.

But as I said to give it some scope, it took $21.60 in 2007 to equal a real silver 1913 dollar. So a place like my Uncle's that cost him 75k, would have in real dollars only been about $3,500.00. Now if all the stupid taxes could be removed, his cost would have been around $3,300.00. So with lets say a 3% "fairtax" (which I am not thrilled with, until we get things back on an even keel with the repealing of all illegal, and unConstitutional taxes), his tax on the puchase would be $99.00.

When trying to figure in the cost of cars and himes though, you also have to take into consideration, the unions and the leverage they have, as they create another bottleneck. Unions never make concessions. They only demand more and more. So the average cost of a home or car, that are new will have these costs built into them. The cost of a new car built by a union paid worker in America has 1200 bucks added to the cost just to pay for the wages and bennies union workers get. The wage and benefit difference between union and non union the last time I looked broke down to a union worker makes in wages and benefits the average of 74 dollars an hour. The average non-union private sector worker earns about 26 dollars an hour.

I dicussed this with my Uncle who retired after 33 years from Dodge. When he first went to work there in 1974, they had a workforce of 150k. Last year it was down to like 40k workers. But those 40k workers have to support all the retirees before them, plus pay their own wage with the cars they build, and sell. And lets not forget bennies either.

So when all things get taken into account, there is much that needs righting, and it won't happen until the crooks from all levels are ousted first.