Thread: Wouldn't It Be Great If ...........

NoEmoticon,

Even if we eliminated the welfare programs it would not address the impact of illegal aliens on our prison systems, infrastructure costs, school systems, and health care systems.

W

Unfortunately, the delay in receiving posts causes a delay in response time to those vary posts.

To 2ndAmen I say that using terms such as "socialist, marxist, et cetera, are name-calling. Please do not throw around such terms until or unless you know of what you speak. I believe myself to be far from any of those types. Nor am I a fascist. I consider myself a loyal American capitalist who hopes others will use reason and not emotion in this debate.
Few people will be enticed to join your cause if you call them names right from the get-go. You certainly didn't warrant my sympathy or support by calling me such names. I remain above such emotional rhetoric so that I can learn and discern.

Please get a grip. You may find that I support your cause more than you realize.

I think it is new in some respects.

The volume is huge. They used to creep over. Now they are coming in droves because they have no fear. Why should they? They have a information pipeline and have no trouble educating themselves about how to take advantage of the situation here. They don't assimilate because they have no intention of participating in our laws and culture. They used to come here, work, and attempt to assimilate. they now realize their numbers are strong enough to form their own underground movement, I have spoken to some of them. They think we are idiots to put up with this.

Before 1986 there were a few million. Los Angeles has in the range of 2-3 million. The rest of Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Georgia hav millions. It is estimated that several thousand come in every day.

Illegal aliens are a source of strain on the welfare system, the criminal justice system, and the education system.
And while the costs are amplified, tax collection from illegal aliens is miniscule:
"The Los Angeles Times reports that 950,000 illegals live in the five counties comprising the greater Los Angeles area.
Their economic activity is mostly underground, which means the employers pay low cash wages, no overtime,
no benefits and no taxes. ... John Chiang of the State Board of Equalization, California's tax oversight agency,
estimates that the state loses $7 billion a year in unpaid taxes because of the underground sector."
And while the tax collections are miniscule, the payments to immigrant groups overall is large:
"The U.S. Census Bureau reports that 30.6 percent of Hispanics receive means-tested government benefits
compared to 9 percent of whites."
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/conte ... catcode=11
Education also takes a hit due to illegal immigration. The same source notes:
"Even though California spends $2.2 billion to educate children
who are illegally in this country, nearly half of Hispanic adults have not graduated from high school."
The total cost nationwide to teach children of illegal aliens is $7.4 billion nationwide.
The cost extends into the area of crime and law enforcement.
"Almost 25 percent of all inmates in California prisons are from Mexico." begging the question,
why arent they deported? Which would only beg the response, if they are deported, how can you
stop them from coming back? These costs get
In the latest Medicare bill, the Federal Government is picking up the tab for illegal alien health care:
U.S. hospitals in border states provide at least $200 million a year in uncompensated emergency care to illegal aliens.

New data has much bigger numbers. The Governor of California asked for in the area of $750 million dollars from the feds to offset these costs .

Most states can't get a full handle on the costs, and the feds sure don't want the info tallied.

Americans who are upset by the huge salaries received by corporate/hollywood/sports icons didn't demand huge increases in their own salaries through such things as paid medical leave, healthcare, abuse of sick time?

Americans realized that for companies to compete in a global market, then perhaps the employees must be willing to take some cuts in benefits and/or salaries.

Americans lived within their incomes and didn't live on the false incomes provided by excessive credit card use?

Americans realized that the more successful the economy then the greater the appeal to undocumented workers?

Didn't bother to read any archived posts, did you? Just jumped right in without ascertaining the "climate" of this messageboard, right?

Let's see..... hmmmmm...... uh huh, knee-jerk rhetoric. Echoes of "dittoheadness."

Ponder.....

Okay!!!!!

"Americans who are upset by the huge salaries received by corporate/hollywood/sports icons didn't demand huge increases in their own salaries through such things as paid medical leave, healthcare, abuse of sick time? "

When does the typical wage slave obtain said perks by demanding? I can't recall anyone I have ever known to do what you lambast an unnamed multitude for.

"Americans realized that for companies to compete in a global market, then perhaps the employees must be willing to take some cuts in benefits and/or salaries."

Are YOU ready to work for a buck an hour?

"Americans lived within their incomes and didn't live on the false incomes provided by excessive credit card use?"

Do you disagree that Americans have the right of free choice? Besides, we are now a consumer-driven economy, our imports FAR exceed exports. If the citizenry did not spend recession would be knocking at the door.

"Americans realized that the more successful the economy then the greater the appeal to undocumented workers?"

Following that logic, do we allow everyone who wants to enter to waltz right in? Have you done your homework regarding "carrying capacity" of an ecosystem? Can you imagine an America with one-billion, two-billion, even more humans residing here, consuming resources? Read about declining aquifers lately? How about arable land versus food requirements versus suburban sprawl. Many aspects of humans/environment you could devote years studying about but a dozen purposeful hours should give you enough enlightenment for meaningful discourse. And, what's with the "undocumented workers" label. Indicative of a certain mind-set from my experience.

" Americans realized that the only way to dramatically reduce the impact on American culture, demographics, services, politics through unrestrained immigration (whether documented or undocumented) is to remain aware of the subtle changes in society that lead to such catastrophies each day and not wait until the situation becomes nearly irreversible?"

Prove to me where the majority desire is replicated within the federal government. Or, are you suggesting a mass uprising to solve the invasion problem.

"Americans realized that President Bush is a pawn himself."

I prefer the terms lapdog, lackey, figurehead, vile spawn of the ruling elites and blithering idiot but those are merely personal preferences.

"Americans stopped worrying about such myths as Global Warming, and worried more about teaching their children about ethics, morals, honesty and respect? "

Dittoheadville? No definitive proof either way but I do wonder a wee bit when I see the before/after pictures of the glaciers that have retreated several miles and oceanic warm water species are being found further north than in the past.... as well as many other clues that do not allow me to toss aside global warming with a mere denigration of the possibility.

"Children today are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food, and tyrannize their teachers." -- Socrates.


"Americans realized that taking care of one's self is always better than expecting government to take care of you?"

To me, the statement is a general platitude based upon knee-jerk rhetoric and is incapable of being the basis of any logical discussion.

" Americans realized that all things go in circles, whether that be time, history, weather or populations?"

Broad generalization that can be interpreted in many ways.

" Americans realized that undocumented immigrants are a common phenomenon throughout history and throughout the countries of the world?"

So is murder, rape, infanticide, genocide and many other evils. What kind of logical fallacy is one using when proclaiming that since evil X exists we thus must accept evil Y?

"Americans realized that the emasculation of American men has led to the
further dimmunation of the family?"

Agree with part of this platitude but I believe there is a plethora of other factors affecting that which you refer to.

OBBOP
he said "wouldn't it be great if Americans did NOT demand"

etc. etc. etc.

Americans who are upset by the huge salaries received by corporate/hollywood/sports icons didn't demand huge increases in their own salaries through such things as paid medical leave, healthcare, abuse of sick time?

in other words, cut their bennies.

Shoot, wish someone would give me some

Nice avatar, dude. But honestly, all I am attempting to point out is that by our own desire to have more benefits, money, of everything (I like some creature comforts, myself, so I'll state that right out in the open) that we have created the nightmare of unrestrained immigration for ourselves. That to solve problems we must be aware of their originations. And let's not delude ourselves. Legal immigration unrestrained is no better than illegal immigration. The problem, as I see it, is the excess strain placed on a system (whether the system be this country or a global system) by the participants in that same system.

Be prepared for changes in immigration laws that purport to reduce illegal immigration, but increase legal immigration dramatically. Either form of increased population in this country will place much strain on the system and the system is a synonym for "the taxpayers".

Oh, one more thought, global warming is a tactic that can be used to fight illegal immigration since those people do nothing to improve the environment. By the same token, global warming may be real but to blame the USA for its over use of resources is merely another way to lower the standard of living here. Global warming in this case can be a double-edged sword. To me, both global warming and illegal immigration are real, but global warming is not a manmade problem but illegal immigration is.

Originally Posted by 2ndamendsis

OBBOP
he said "wouldn't it be great if Americans did NOT demand"

etc. etc. etc.

Americans who are upset by the huge salaries received by corporate/hollywood/sports icons didn't demand huge increases in their own salaries through such things as paid medical leave, healthcare, abuse of sick time?

in other words, cut their bennies.

Shoot, wish someone would give me some

I believe my response was grammatically correct and conveyed the message I wanted to convey.

"Nice avatar, dude."

Thanks........... dude

It would be more appropriate in your quest if you would go back and study the League of Nations moving ahead to FDR and his New Deal as well as the rising of the Unions.

Continue on as the spider web enlarges and move into Johnson and the Great Society. Then scoot to Kennedy {the swimmer} and take a peak at his ever beloved IMMIGRATION catastrophy. Yes, Kennedy, who's continuing on his quest to redesign America along with the rest of the gang.

Don't forget to dig a little into the CFR so that you're able to connect the dots and players.

Then I would say, "wouldn't it be nice if our Constitution was upheld, the judges stopped legislating, and the Rule of Law was once again the foundation of our Republic."

So that you understand, personally, I believe that it's better to teach a person to fish rather than feed him forever. I don't believe in our welfare system as I believe that it's made people less creative and more dependent.

An no, I don't want ILLEGALS to be taxed through a "guest worker program" ...........I want them to go back to their countries and fix their own messes while we attempt to clean our house.