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Thread: Donald Trump administration seeks to detain illegal immigrant families indefinitely

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  1. #11
    Senior Member stoptheinvaders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    What do you want the military to do? Shoot 'em? All the military can do or will do is the same thing Border Patrol does, arrest them, detain them and eventually release them. I've supported and called for TROOPS ON THE BORDER for 15 years. Then I realized, what is the difference between an Army Ranger and a Border Patrol agent? Different uniforms, because it's the same mission: catch, arrest, detain, eventually release.

    Americans were out-snookered when we unknowingly allowed the US Congress to move the deportation process out of INS when the DHS was formed, and transferred that important leg of the process to the US Department of Justice.
    The Military on the border is not the same mission at all as Border Control. The Military's duty is to STOP an invasion, not welcome, process, rescue, and this endless circus we are witnessing that is destroying this nation. Just the simple fact of the US putting the military on the border and announcing to the entire world ---we now have a zero tolerance of anyone crossing the border would probably STOP 99% of the invaders. The other 1% would become POW's.
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    What do you want the military to do? Shoot 'em? All the military can do or will do is the same thing Border Patrol does, arrest them, detain them and eventually release them. I've supported and called for TROOPS ON THE BORDER for 15 years. Then I realized, what is the difference between an Army Ranger and a Border Patrol agent? Different uniforms, because it's the same mission: catch, arrest, detain, eventually release.

    Americans were out-snookered when we unknowingly allowed the US Congress to move the deportation process out of INS when the DHS was formed, and transferred that important leg of the process to the US Department of Justice.
    As I've told you many times before, the DOJ doesn't physically deport anyone. That responsibility falls under DHS.

    Deportation


    The formal removal of an alien from the United States when the alien has been found removable for violating the immigration laws. Deportation is ordered by an immigration judge without any punishment being imposed or contemplated. Prior to April 1997 deportation and exclusion were separate removal procedures. The Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996 consolidated these procedures. After April 1, 1997, aliens in and admitted to the United States may be subject to removal based on deportability. Now called Removal, this function is managed by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
    https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/deportation

    We need to quit whining about what was and worry more about the here and now. Crying over spilled milk, if in fact any was spilled during the transfer of responsibilities, just isn't productive (IMO).

    "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" ** Edmund Burke**

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  3. #13
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders View Post
    The Military on the border is not the same mission at all as Border Control. The Military's duty is to STOP an invasion, not welcome, process, rescue, and this endless circus we are witnessing that is destroying this nation. Just the simple fact of the US putting the military on the border and announcing to the entire world ---we now have a zero tolerance of anyone crossing the border would probably STOP 99% of the invaders. The other 1% would become POW's.
    I like the idea of military on the borders, but the end result is they will surrender, be taken into custody, detained until a deportation hearing and when detention extends beyond a certain short period, released on bail or no bail and to me that is worth the risk to them. Then they float and roam, work and steal, and we have the same result. We need a different plan of some type. I know many like the thought of power and force, locking them up and really showing them we mean business, but yet, what does that really do? It just costs us a lot of money without much of a different outcome. That's why I like the sanctions idea, Judy's Plan B, make everyone from their country pay for this instead of Americans. It's their families back home they send the money to. It's their countries back home who gain the benefit of having less mouths to feed and less criminals to chase. We need something more strategic that stops them from coming here to begin with, like economic sanctions.

    Our military is never going to shoot unarmed civilians surrendering at the borders. They're just going to catch them and turn them over to BP and the rest stays the same until we change it.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    As I've told you many times before, the DOJ doesn't physically deport anyone. That responsibility falls under DHS.



    https://www.uscis.gov/tools/glossary/deportation

    We need to quit whining about what was and worry more about the here and now. Crying over spilled milk, if in fact any was spilled during the transfer of responsibilities, just isn't productive (IMO).
    And as I've told you, I think you're wrong. Our number one cry should be to move that deportation process back to DHS where it belongs, so the people who already know who these illegal aliens are and why they're arrested, are the same ones to issue the deportation order based on who they are, and get them the hell out of here.
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  5. #15
    MW
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    Quote Originally Posted by stoptheinvaders View Post
    The Military on the border is not the same mission at all as Border Control. The Military's duty is to STOP an invasion, not welcome, process, rescue, and this endless circus we are witnessing that is destroying this nation. Just the simple fact of the US putting the military on the border and announcing to the entire world ---we now have a zero tolerance of anyone crossing the border would probably STOP 99% of the invaders. The other 1% would become POW's.
    I understand what you're saying. What you're proposing is saturating the border with boots on the ground and necessary military equipment with orders to protect our borders from any illegal alien crossings, period.

    I believe we currently have somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 million active duty service members, not including the U.S. Coast Guard. Around 700,000 of them are active duty Army and Marine Corps personnel. We also have around 400,000 Army and Marine Corps Reserve forces.

    I don't know what our commitments are around the world but, considering the large number of illegals crossing our border, it seem like we could come up with a couple hundred thousand for border security. Our only problem seems to be convincing our U.S. Congress of the negative impact this large number of illegal crossings has on national security. They currently seem impervious to our border situation and operate more under a reactionary mode vice a preventive one.

    As we know, not every illegal is just coming here to work and provide for their family. Many come to criminally prey on American citizens. Well, what if some of the folks crossing illegally are actual terrorist and are intent on taking out thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of Americans? It's unfortunate that it would take such a disaster to force our federal government to act!

    Honestly, I don't know what the answer is, but one thing is certain, what we're doing now isn't working so great. I think things will improve over time with AG Jeff Sessions closing loopholes and rewriting policies, but will it be enough? Furthermore, it doesn't seem like border security is as high a priority on Trump's list as he has led us to believe because if it were, he wouldn't be so anxious to get rid of Sessions and he wouldn't have signed the last omnibus bill without funding for his campaigned for border wall. Just my two cents, for what it's worth.

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  6. #16
    Senior Member stoptheinvaders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    I like the idea of military on the borders, but the end result is they will surrender, be taken into custody, detained until a deportation hearing and when detention extends beyond a certain short period, released on bail or no bail and to me that is worth the risk to them. Then they float and roam, work and steal, and we have the same result. We need a different plan of some type. I know many like the thought of power and force, locking them up and really showing them we mean business, but yet, what does that really do?

    Our military is never going to shoot unarmed civilians surrendering at the borders. They're just going to catch them and turn them over to BP and the rest stays the same until we change it.
    You ignored what I said about the military. Let me explain again.

    If they are so determined to invade with the military there, it will not be considered a surrender, it will be a capture. There will not be a deportation hearing, they are now POW's and the few choosing to invade will be treated as POW's.

    The reason I say putting the military on the border will STOP 99% is because of the statement it makes. What % of the population jumps the fence at the WH? Probably less than 99.999999999% because they know it will not be tolerated. If these invaders knew their invading would not be tolerated, that also would STOP. Currently they know just the opposite, they know they are welcomed and catered to.

    Our military would not have to shoot unarmed civilians. They would guard the border with such force , very few would dare to enter.
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  7. #17
    Senior Member Judy's Avatar
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    Trump is mad at Sessions over this ludicrous, vicious and outrageous Russia Hoax, it has nothing to do with what Sessions is or is not doing on immigration. The only role the US Department of Justice has with regards to immigration is deportation hearings and of course defending the administration's immigration control actions in court. Sessions is doing as much as he can in that regard, and Trump loves that. Trump's issue with Sessions is all related to the recusal and turning his back on these outrageous illegal acts of the Department he's in charge of. What President wouldn't be furious about that?!! Trump is right on this and Sessions is wrong. It has nothing to do with immigration, only the cost and damage to our country and citizens of the Russia Hoax.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MW View Post
    As you well know, the system doesn't quite work that fast. Of course I wish it did, but it just doesn't.
    I know that is does. But I don't know that it can't. Obama reduced illegal immigration by deporting crossers immediately without processing them. Our laws say they must apply for asylum in their country, not at our border. That we allow them to remain in the country when they apply at the border entry point or after they are arrested, is a failure of us to enforce our laws. And once we don't do that, they avail themselves of all sorts of rights they should not have access to.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    What do you want the military to do? Shoot 'em?
    YES! If we have a wall of troops and aliens come through them, are they expected to just let them walk through? No, they repel them or arrest them.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judy View Post
    I like the idea of military on the borders
    Like cardboard cops to scare off criminals? You seem to be satisfied with tokenism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Judy
    but the end result is they will surrender, be taken into custody, detained until a deportation hearing and when detention extends beyond a certain short period, released on bail or no bail and to me that is worth the risk to them.
    Not if a wall of military prevents them from crossing the border. Have you ever heard the term "deterrent"?

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