Thread: Real facts on REAL ID

William wrote:

I will work with JP to come to a good position on this that both allows him to pursue his goals and is fair to all ALIPAC users that disagree with one of our execs on the real id issue.

I knew we could find some middle ground on the issue.

Thank you, William.

I have to admit that i'm not the most informed on this whole real id debate. But I do have a few questions/concerns:

1. What type of identification would one present that would establish they are in this country legally and thus eligible for a real id?

2. Why would it take real id to finally say that we are now going to make sure we are going to "verify" documents before we issue a real id. Didn't our government promise to secure our borders when they passed mass amnesty back in 1986 under Reagan? What happened ?

3. Isn't a US Pasport a "real id?" Why not require every American Citizen to have a US Passport? Atleast with this docuemnt, we can be assured that our personal information will not be shared with other countries.

Again, I have not decided one way or another on this issue. But I have to admit i'm very suspicious of our government regarding anything remotely related to immigration, illegal or otherwise. I cannot help but believe their may be some other agenda associated with this real id.

I just don't know...

Originally Posted by NoBueno

I have to admit that i'm not the most informed on this whole real id debate. But I do have a few questions/concerns:

1. What type of identification would one present that would establish they are in this country legally and thus eligible for a real id?

2. Why would it take real id to finally say that we are now going to make sure we are going to "verify" documents before we issue a real id. Didn't our government promise to secure our borders when they passed mass amnesty back in 1986 under Reagan? What happened ?

3. Isn't a US Pasport a "real id?" Why not require every American Citizen to have a US Passport? Atleast with this docuemnt, we can be assured that our personal information will not be shared with other countries.

These are good questions. Does anyone know the answers?

Originally Posted by NoBueno

I have to admit that i'm not the most informed on this whole real id debate. But I do have a few questions/concerns:

Originally Posted by NoBueno

1. What type of identification would one present that would establish they are in this country legally and thus eligible for a real id?

A Social Security Card (Even if it is against your Religion), A Birth Certificate, Biometric Photo (Even if it is against your religion) and any other information the DMV wants.

Here is the info from the NC DMV

In order to apply for the first time issuance of a North Carolina Learner Permit or Driver License you will need to gather documents from the following categories:

1. Proof of Residency:

Proof of residency includes providing your name and current address. You will need one document from this category. A few examples of documents you can use to prove your residency are:

* Any document issued by the State of North Carolina or any of its political subdivisions (county, city, tax district, etc.) or by the federal government;
* An apartment lease, housing contract, or mortgage statement;
* A utility bill (ie. power bill, cable bill, water bill, etc.);
* Matricula Consular issued by the Mexican consulate.


For the complete list of documents that may be used to provide proof of residency visit the Driver's Handbook: Chapter 1 - Requirements.

2. Proof of Age & Identity:

Proof of age and identity includes providing your full name (including your middle name or initial) and date of birth. You will need a total of two documents from this category, one of which must show your date of birth. It is required by law that you present DMV with a valid Social Security card. If you are not eligible for a Social Security card, you must provide documentation issued by the United States Government indicating legal presence. If you have just recently moved to North Carolina and are applying for your original North Carolina driver license your valid, unexpired "out-of-state" driver license with photo counts as one form of identification.

You may not use two documents from the same section. For instance, using a report card and school transcript would not qualify as two forms of identification because they both come from the "School Records" section.
Acceptable Proof of Identity Documents:

1. Valid, unexpired Driver License or State-Issued Identification Card from another state, Puerto Rico, a U.S. territory, or a Canadian province.
2. Certified or original birth certificate.
3. Original Social Security card (may not be laminated)
4. Official North Carolina School Registration records signed by a school official and Diplomas issued by North Carolina schools, including secondary schools, community colleges, colleges and universities
5. Unexpired U.S. Military Identification, including DD-2, DD-214, Common Access Card, and U.S. Military Dependents Card
6. Valid, unexpired Passport from any nation
7. Certified marriage certificate from a Register of Deeds or appropriate government agency in the United States, Puerto Rico, U.S. territories or Canada.
8. Limited Driving Privilege issued by North Carolina.
9. Valid, unexpired documents issued by the U.S. Bureau of Immigration Services (BIS) formerly known as Immigration & Naturalization Service (INS)
10. Court documents from U.S. jurisdiction, Puerto Rico, U.S. territories or Canada.
11. U.S. Veterans Universal Access Card.


For the complete list of documents that may be used to provide proof of age & identity visit the Driver's Handbook: Chapter 1 - Requirements.

3. Proof of Liability Insurance:

Proof of liability insurance includes providing insurance documents such as:

* DMV form DL-123;
* or an original liability insurance policy binder;
* or an insurance card with: your name, policy number, issue and expiration date.

The liability insurance documents must show your name, the effective date of policy, the expiration date of the policy, and the date the policy was issued.

Even if you do not own or drive a currently registered vehicle you may still apply for a license, but a restriction will be placed on your driver license. This restriction limits you to only driving "fleet vehicles" and costs $10.00 when you are ready to remove it from your license.

For the complete description of liability insurance visit the Driver's Handbook: Chapter 1 - Requirements.

4. Social Security Card Requirement:

When making application for an original identification card, learners permit or driver license, it is required by law that you present DMV with a valid Social Security card. If you are not eligible for a Social Security card, you must provide documentation issued by the United States Government indicating legal presence

http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/driver_service ... html#Step2

Now why would we accept the Matricular Consular Card? Its not like there are any fake ones around? Anyone wanting a fake SS# only has to get enough $$ to the Right SS worker and they will have a card.

Originally Posted by NoBueno

2. Why would it take real id to finally say that we are now going to make sure we are going to "verify" documents before we issue a real id. Didn't our government promise to secure our borders when they passed mass amnesty back in 1986 under Reagan? What happened ?

Yes, they promised to never have another amnesty and promised to secure our border and crack down on illegals. George Bush Senior did nothing and neither did Click Willy, nor has George jr. They decided SLAVe Labor was good for the country and decided to look a blind eye. The Real ID will not force them to do anything more.

Originally Posted by NoBueno

3. Isn't a US Pasport a "real id?" Why not require every American Citizen to have a US Passport? Atleast with this docuemnt, we can be assured that our personal information will not be shared with other countries.

Yes, with the RFID chip and personal information embedded in the chip which can be read by anyone within 30 feet with an RFID reader. They can collect data about anyone. Passport information is shared with other countries any time you enter them and could be shared anyways. They could nto require everyone carry a passport because it is a Federal Document and that would be a obvious National ID Card.

Under the Real ID Act, each 50 states issues and ID Card and that information is shared with All 50 States and the information goes into a federal database controlled by Homeland Security. That way they can claim it is not a national ID Card even though the Feds control the data flow back and forth to the DMV'S. When the feds control the data flow, they can make copies of that data.

Originally Posted by NoBueno

Again, I have not decided one way or another on this issue. But I have to admit i'm very suspicious of our government regarding anything remotely related to immigration, illegal or otherwise. I cannot help but believe their may be some other agenda associated with this real id.

They claim their only agenda is to stop terrorists and illegal immigration, yet they refuse to enforce our laws or secure our borders. Remember DHS has the authority to require any additional information they want at any time ofr any reason.

Chapter 1 - Requirements.

For the first time issuance of a North Carolina identification card, learner permit or driver license, proof of residency is required which must include name and current North Carolina residence address. This is in addition to proof of age and identity requirements. Acceptable documents include the following. NOTE: The proof of residency documents are subject to verifiable authenticity by the Division.

(1) Documents issued by the United States Government or by the government of another nation, such as

* Military orders
* Valid passport
* Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) documents
* Correspondence from Veterans Administration
* Matricula Consular from Government of Mexico
* Correspondence from the Social Security Administration

(2) Documents issued by the State of North Carolina or its political subdivisions (County, city) another State, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico or a U.S. Territory, such as

* Valid North Carolina vehicle registration
* Correspondence or a service card from Social Services
* Property tax statement
* Library card
* North Carolina voter registration card

(3) A preprinted bank or other corporate statement (Example: Bank statement)

(4) A preprinted business letterhead

(5) Documents deemed reliable by the Division such as

* Apartment lease, housing contract, mortgage statement
* Utility bill (Power bill, cable bill, water bill, etc.) or contract for utility services
* School records signed by school official, including driver education certificates
* Computer generated tax record
* Current life, health, property or automobile insurance policy or binder
* Letter from homeless shelter
* Document from Social Services
* Computer generated check stub

Now this part is interesting, imagine how easy it would be to produce any of those documents.

JP wrote:

Quote:
Chapter 1 - Requirements.

For the first time issuance of a North Carolina identification card, learner permit or driver license, proof of residency is required which must include name and current North Carolina residence address. This is in addition to proof of age and identity requirements. Acceptable documents include the following. NOTE: The proof of residency documents are subject to verifiable authenticity by the Division.

(1) Documents issued by the United States Government or by the government of another nation, such as

* Military orders
* Valid passport
* Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) documents
* Correspondence from Veterans Administration
* Matricula Consular from Government of Mexico
* Correspondence from the Social Security Administration

(2) Documents issued by the State of North Carolina or its political subdivisions (County, city) another State, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico or a U.S. Territory, such as

* Valid North Carolina vehicle registration
* Correspondence or a service card from Social Services
* Property tax statement
* Library card
* North Carolina voter registration card

(3) A preprinted bank or other corporate statement (Example: Bank statement)

(4) A preprinted business letterhead

(5) Documents deemed reliable by the Division such as

* Apartment lease, housing contract, mortgage statement
* Utility bill (Power bill, cable bill, water bill, etc.) or contract for utility services
* School records signed by school official, including driver education certificates
* Computer generated tax record
* Current life, health, property or automobile insurance policy or binder
* Letter from homeless shelter
* Document from Social Services
* Computer generated check stub



Now this part is interesting, imagine how easy it would be to produce any of those documents.

What you failed to mention, JP, is that this all changes on July 1, 2008. Effective 07/01/08, the NC DMV will be meeting the federal requirement for Real ID.

Federal requirement for license to meet Real ID standards:

Excerpt:

REAL ID compliant licenses and ID cards must meet minimum standards which include

-information and security features that must be incorporated into each card

-proof of identity and U.S. citizenship or legal status of an applicant

-verification of the source documents provided by an applicant

-security standards for the offices that issue licenses and identification cards

http://www.dhs.gov/xprevprot/programs/g ... 53842.shtm

Under the Real ID Act, each 50 states issues and ID Card and that information is shared with All 50 States and the information goes into a federal database controlled by Homeland Security.

Not true. Please read:

Will a national database be created that stores information about every applicant?

No. REAL ID does not establish a national database of driver information. The federal government will not collect information about driver’s license and identification card holders pursuant to REAL ID. States will continue to manage and operate databases for driver’s license and identification card issuance.

Who will have routine access to the information that the DMVs collect?

As they do now, only authorized DMV officials and law enforcement in the licensing state will have access to DMV records. Licensing authorities will be able to verify that an individual holds only one REAL ID document, and is not attempting to obtain multiple documents from multiple states. Neither the REAL ID Act nor this final rule creates greater access to state DMV records by the federal government than already exists under current statutes for law enforcement purposes.

http://www.dhs.gov/xprevprot/programs/g ... 35686.shtm

N.C. lawmakers target ID law

Under the Real ID Act, each 50 states issues and ID Card and that information is shared with All 50 States and the information goes into a federal database controlled by Homeland Security. The information goes into your state DMV and in order for that information to be shared it flows to a National Database. This is done because the state DMV's could not handle the amount of data flow from all 50 states. SO IT IS A NATIONAL ID CARD IT IS A NATIONAL DATABASE.

For those of you who are naive enough to believe the Real ID is not a National ID Card, please re-read this thread. Some people who know nothing about how databases work refuse to see the truth aside from what DHS writes on their web site. I suppose Iraq still has WMD's too.