Thread: Tuition bill targets immigrants

Its funny, but do you know why North Carolina is so "lenient" on illegal immigrants ? It's simple, because they want to maintain a vibrant economy... the state wants to survive on the same standards it has for time out of mind: cheap labor in the fields.

You guys talk so much smack about what you don't know ... you call them criminals for breaking laws that are designed to keep them out, while munching on food that was made affordable by their labors ... How much do you think a tomato is going to go for when all these "illegal" immigrants aren't permitted to be here? Think about the fact that, since they are illegally working, the farms aren't constrained to pay them minimum wage for their work. Instead it's treated as contract work, the farms pay by the bushel or pound. And they don't have to pay for the workers health insurance or FICA tax ...

Speaking of Taxes, you show your ignorance of your own tax system when you say that they are after your tax dollars ... sure only 1/2 of illegal immigrants pay federal income tax ... mostly, though, out of fear of being caught and deported, they don't file for a tax id ... HOWEVER, your freaking public schools and state universities are primarily paid for through STATE TAXES ... and where does the state get it's taxes from? Well, sales tax for one ... and property taxes .... Hmm... do illegal's pay those?? DUH!! They sure don't have tax-exempt status at the grocery store ... they pay taxes if they own property, which many do ... though most pay rent ...where they also pay taxes ... through the rent ... as well as for the water and any other serices ... light, phone, cable ...etc ... ALL told, the only taxes that they don't pay that you do are the Federal ones ...


Now, in reference to their criminal status .... well, Have you ever made a U-turn infront of a school or in any part of a school zone? well that's a crime in the united states. I'm assuming you are all up-standing Protestants from Baptist Churches so I'm sure none of you have had 2 or 3 beers and then driven home. NO, you would never do that because it is a CRIME in the united states. And of course, none of you practice any form of sodomy, which is a crime in most states, and none of you Drive more than 15 miles over the speed limit which is a serious crime in mose states .... none of you have driven 55 in a 30 before, I'm sure ...especially not down any deserted country lanes or roads ... never, because you are absolutely law abiding .... and none of your children are guilty of breaking federal laws on copyrights ... never downlowding songs or movies that they have not paid for. That's a Federal Crime. A Felony, actually.

nope ... all of you are completely innocent and have every right to want to throw out those people who dare want a share of being able to sleep at night not worried about being torn to shreds by an american made grenade or bullet at the hands of anti-government officials ... or gov't officials after anti-government units ....

by the way .. think about this ... if a person was willing to risk their life and limb to be able to pick your tomatoes, do you honestly think that driving without a liscense is going to scare them? No ... if they crash into your brand new lexus ... they're going to just run ...like they always have ...


Instead, why don't you make driver's liscences useful tools for keeping track of illegal immigrants ...allowing them to have them, but requiring them to report every year on where they live and fill out surveys ... giving law enforcement officers the opportunity to track real potential criminals using our immigration system to sabotage our country ...

I'm sure my hard words won't last long here ... its not like this forum is a reflection of the True American Ideal ... but, I hope at least a few of you will look past your own fears and insecurities and rethink what you are saying ...and actually come up with useful solutions ...

by the way ... have you ever tried calculating how much it would cost the US to deport each illegal immigrant?

the last estimate I remember is that there are about 2 million illegal immigrants in the US ... Even if you were to just file them all on the border and pay someone to push them into mexico ... [which you technically couldn't do, since only maybe half of illegal immigrants are actually mexican] it would still be millions of dollars .... That's of course without counting the cost of "rounding up" all these people ... and what of those people who aren't well organized and can't find their birthcertificate or their social security card and therefore can't PROVE that they are citizens ? obviously your idea of deportation doesn't actually include court dates and trials so ... how do you make sure that citizens who can't prove they were born here with real documents aren't deported?

and if you have trials ...well ... your talking about a price tag that is in the Billions ....

Now do you understand why no one just ...Deports them?

If they didn't do it to the stinking irish, germans and Italians back when they were the hated immigrants ...mainly because it was too expensive ... why would they do it now?

Originally Posted by Jhaerlyn

by the way ... have you ever tried calculating how much it would cost the US to deport each illegal immigrant?

the last estimate I remember is that there are about 2 million illegal immigrants in the US ... Even if you were to just file them all on the border and pay someone to push them into mexico ... [which you technically couldn't do, since only maybe half of illegal immigrants are actually mexican] it would still be millions of dollars .... That's of course without counting the cost of "rounding up" all these people ... and what of those people who aren't well organized and can't find their birthcertificate or their social security card and therefore can't PROVE that they are citizens ? obviously your idea of deportation doesn't actually include court dates and trials so ... how do you make sure that citizens who can't prove they were born here with real documents aren't deported?

and if you have trials ...well ... your talking about a price tag that is in the Billions ....

Now do you understand why no one just ...Deports them?

If they didn't do it to the stinking irish, germans and Italians back when they were the hated immigrants ...mainly because it was too expensive ... why would they do it now?

First I want to say welcome.

Second Illegals range around 16 to 20 million.

Third A liberal group estimates it would cost us, around 40 billion dollars to take care of deporting them

Fourth Last year, 70 billion+ was spent on illegals in our country, for Health care, Education and other severeness. This in not including the money that was lost to American Citizens, because of work loss and wage loss.

Fifth if the government went after the companies that are hiring these illegals, instead of Americans and fine them big time. There wouldn't be a problem.

And one other thing, just this year as of June, 9.6 billion dollars has been transferred to Mexico alone.

So maybe do a little research and ask us questions. We will be glad to show you the facts and maybe you will see.

Thank you for your welcome.

And I do the research, I just don't memorize the "facts", because as a teacher I've learned that these estimates are rarely accurate ... for example,

8-18 year olds spend 25 minutes watching movies in a week.

Does that mean that they go to a movie thearter for 25 minutes and leave?

obviously not ... but you have to work with the terms of the survey and the research ... figure out how the figure was come to and then you can understand that what they are really saying is that every 8-18 year old watches 1 movie a week, on average.

I personally seen some of these reports on the cost of helping "illegal immigrants " in the US ... and the numbers are bloated, specifically to scare the public into "reform" Plus, those cost should be balanced against the billions saved yearly by all americans on things, again, like the cost of the tomatoe ... which if picked by a union-represented high school educated citizen (as if a union-represented high school grad would pick tomatoes if he was a citizen) would drive up the cost of tomatoes to about 5 dollars a pound. This would cause hamburger places to either replace tomatoes with something cheaper, buy them over seas or charge the american public about 6 dollars for the burger, by itself.

NOw that would be in the ideal world where High School graduates would go out and pick tomatoes ...

The reality is that farmers across the united states would go bankrupt and close down, because they wouldn't be able to charge what would be necessary to make their food production viable.

Come on, seriously? What jobs are being lost to illegal immigrants that americans want to do?

Come on, seriously? What jobs are being lost to illegal immigrants that americans want to do?

How about, What used to be good paying construction Jobs, Like Carpenters, Laborers, Sheet rock workers for one.

How about in Carpet Mills, used to be very good paying and good work. Now just walk into one.

Would you like for me to go on and on. Oh there is lots of them if you really want me to go to each and every one.

Please do, and with each one explain how and illegal immigrant took that job away from an educated citizen of the United States?

-- did he bully them out of position?

or did he undercut them by being willing to do the job for half what the Citizen wanted to be paid, while doing as much if not more work ... This means, for the contruction industry that your house in Miami cost maybe $45,000 to make, so they are able to sell it to you for $150,000 pre-construction ... Now, if there would have been only legal workers on that cite ... how much would that house have cost to build?

Now the other fascinating thing to me ...is with all this money being given away by our federal government for people to get a College degree ... and very little of that money goes to illegal immigrants because they can't apply for it ... why are there so many Laborer's among the citizenry who are out of work? Didn't they go to school? didn't they at least learn how to do more than pound big rocks into smaller ones? or carry a load of bricks?

As for carpenters ... my cousin's in the construction business... and I don't know about other states, but he is required to have a "liscened" carpenter by his insurance company ... To get that liscence in the state of Florida you actually need more than just a Social Security number ...but you need one.

The only illegal immigrants that I know who are doing any kind of carpentry are doing household jobs on their own for people who hire them on their own ...who would probably never afford to pay a "real" carpenter what he's asking for ... I know I wouldn't.

Hi Jhaerlyn, welcome to ALIPAC.

I read some of your posts, although not all, because I think I can basically see where you are going. You must think there is nothing wrong with entering the U.S. illegally.

It's just your opinion, and this isn't really a matter of opinions it's a matter enforcing U.S. Federal Immigration Laws. They exist for a tremendously important reason, to protect the legal ctizens of this country. It does not have one iota to do with the cost of a tomato.

President Bush used to think it was all as simple as you do, but we've managed to help him to see the truth about this issue, and we've also managed to help him to understand that he has a sworn obligation to uphold his Oath of Office to protect and defend this country from an invasion of any kind.

It is taking him a long time to fully grasp the principles involved, but he's coming around SLOWLY but surely. You have to remember he only made C's in college so he's not most studious type.

Anyway, welcome aboard, you'll learn a LOT if you read everything here. After reading for about five minutes you'll probably see that this has nothing to do with tomatoes and keeping the economy vibrant. That was one of President Bush's old arguments, but I think he's thrown that one out now. Have a great day, and I sincerely hope you will take advantage of all there is for you to learn about illegal immigration. If you like FACTS, you'll find them here.

I will answer this later tonight.

W

Jhaerlyn:

Welcome to ALIPAC. Allow me to address some of your opinions.

Cost of food and commodities: If the absence of illegal aliens would cause the price of a tomato to skyrocket, then why have prices continued to rise despite the rapid import of over 10 million additional illegal laborers into the US in the last 10 years? Using your logic, you expect producers to pass on the saving of their illegal activities. THEY DON'T. If that were the case, then new home prices would have deflated instead of inflating.

Your argument that Americans benefit from reduced cost of goods is not reinforced by either simple observations of price nor the Consumer Price Index data.

Crime: Yes, it is a crime to enter the US illegally and doing so is a lot worse that making an improper U-Turn. In fact, the US deported 1-2 million illegal aliens in the 1950's. Disrespecting Americans, violating our laws, entering the country with a lack of respect for our laws, taking an American job, stealing someones identity, documents fraud, etc... are all serious crimes with serious negative consequences for Americans.

No business that leaves its doors unlocked at night will be a business for long. No home that leaves its doors unlocked will be a home for long and No nation that does the same will be the nation it once was for long.

How long would your school continue to function if the doors were left unlocked at night and when intruders entered the laws against breaking and entering were NOT enforced? It would look like a New Orleans Walmart the day after the storm hit.

SEE THE IMAGES
http://www.zippyvideos.com/891102377101 ... n-walmart/

Jobs Americans Don't Want?

This is a really new term for our society. Americans have always gotten the jobs done without tens of millions of illegals streaming into the nation.

These jobs you speak of. Would they include the six illegal aliens we pulled off the line at Raleigh Durham Airport working as security screeners? Or perhaps you mean the commercial jet engine repair workers we found in Greensboro. Or perhaps you mean the illegal aliens that were working at the Crystal Lake Nuclear facility?

Taxes:

Yes, illegal aliens pay some state and federal taxes and sales tax. Several professional estimates calculate that they are still a net tax drain and if we legalized them it would be worse! Some estimates are as high as 80 billion dollars in takes per year. The average lifetime tax drain of an illegal alien is $56,000.

How long would it take working at minimum wage to repay 56k?

Yes, illegal aliens come here for tax services. American schools, health care, and working conditions are some of the best in the world. We have obtained one of the highest quality of life societies to ever exist on the planet and the American taxpayer is involved with most aspects.

illegal aliens can and do get free health care, free education for their kids, and many list 6 dependents on their tax forms so no taxes are taken out!

We have a serious national crisis here. One that threatens our quality of life, our security, our jobs, our health, our freedoms...

80+% of the American public along with all ALIPAC supporters are not concerned about illegal immigration because they are ignorant or misinformed.

Now the 10% that either support illegal immigration / open borders or do not consider it a problem are the ones that fit that description.

W

OK what part of illegal is this person having a hard time understanding.
I know people (in my family) who have lost jobs in construction due to the fact the ILLEGAL immigrant's will take less pay. I see them staying 12 to 16 in a single family dweling, so they don't have to worry about a good home for their family to live in here.
I understand we have to work on those that hire these people. We hope the law increasing the fine will be past and is enforced.

OBL