Thread: What Would We Do if All the Illegal Immigrants Left?

Originally Posted by Judy

This is Communism. This is the end.

Where is "Man". "Man" come in.

You've initiated an inquiry which has led to a Great Discovery....by Lost_Mummy.....we would appreciate your input.

Things are moving very fast and changing rapidly.

I feel like the little Robot...RD2D...who kept saying over and over when he went outside and got lost on the street "Input...I need input. Input....I need input."

WE need input.

Where is Tancredofan?

This bill must be killed; ripped to shreds; then run through the shredder; then the shreds burned to ashes; then the ashes put in a shoe box; then tossed to the wind...at sea....in the Bermuda Triangle.

Tancredofan did have some posts about this, that I included here:
Questions Answered Regarding Cong. Tancredo's H.R. 3333
Why is ROb Sanchez lying about Cong. Tom Tancredo?
H.R. 3333

This R2D2 needs to "process..process"... I'm not sure what to think about it yet.

Why would Tom do it?

Why would Tom do it?


Please refer to my posts in this matter. g

naturalglenn,

I did a search on "naturalglenn" and "tancredo" and I couldn't find your posts... (At least, not any that I thought related to H.R. 3333)

As Judy says, we need "input...input"... Could you post a link?

I didn't notice it before, but the link provided by Brian503a above does provide a pretty good analysis of the bill. Of course, as a disclaimer that piece was written by Linda Mueller who probably worked for TeamAmerica at the time of writing it, and TeamAmerica was founded by Tancredo. But, it still seems to be fairly informative and objective.

When you consider the reality of the situation we are in, I think we would be extremely fortunate to get the Tancredo bill passed rather than McCain-Kennedy. With the immense lobbying power of Agri-business, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Catholic and Lutheran churces, the Hispanic groups, the ACLU, the immigration lawyers(AILA), the Ford foundation, and run-amuck liberals some form of guestworker bill is likely inevitable in the current climate.

Tancredo's bill doesn't give the farm (or the country away) like McCain-Kennedy does.

The national jobs database isn't so bad as I see it because it does provide the opportunity for any U.S. citizen to get a job anywhere in the country before that job can be offered to anyone outside the U.S. The "match willing employers with willing workers" line from the site lost_mummy listed is really something out of the Bush guestworker plan, not the Tancredo plan. But, that is what any job bank, including monster.com, state job services, etc. does so I don't see the big deal about that.

One very positive aspect of the Tancredo plan is that it does not give amnesty to current illegals and requires them (and everyone else) to apply for a guestworker job from their home country. If that provision is coupled with strict workplace enforcement resulting in current illegal workers being fired, then Tancredo has actually come up with a pretty clever plan to get many of the current illegals to deport themselves. If they don't have a job and want one, then they have to go home to get it.

The Secretary of Labor provision mentioned in the lost-mummy site is actually meant, I think, to prevent the issuing of too many guestworker permits rather than to give the Secretary of Labor full control over the price of labor. It prevents the Secretary of Labor from issuing guestworker permits unless there is an up-tick in real wages for 6 months -- the problem is that the bill doesn't specify that some minimum increase be required but leaves the definition of "increase" to the discretion of the Secretary of Labor.

I doubt that the Tancredo plan would result in much permanent population increase because it requires guestworkers to be out of the country for one year in every two year period. Making sure that was enforced might be an issue. The employer does have to put up a bond to provide transportation home. There should be no guestworker anchor babies according to the bill -- unless the courts rule otherwise or the guestworker finds a legal resident or citizen to impregnate or be made pregnant by (which might be all too easy to do).

If it were up to me completely, there would likely be a "no worker" plan, the illegals would all disappear (which I think was the original topic of this thread), and I would go back in time to 1965 and try to prevent the so-called legal side of this whole mess from ever happening. Can't do that. But, I don't see the Tancredo plan as a sellout, but more like a necessary compromise that we may well be lucky to get. Of course, I could be missing something (or a lot) but I did read through much of the bill.

Guest worker needs to come OUT of the Tancredo Bill. The Department of Labor can not be relied upon for even this. There is no point to it. Where would this idea have originated?

Lost_Mummy--very interesting. Those people had a similar reaction to my thoughts.

How could the Trancredo Bill go so wrong on this subject?

The United States does not need any Guest Worker Program. We already have more Ag Visas than are used. Every employer is whining for increases in the H1B and H2B visas as Americans sit idle. We have pockets of hardship at almost every level, low income; middle income; and soon upper level professional categories. They asked for 50,000 additional nuses this year and got it, but have only used 20,000 of them.

Our economy is getting ready to tank and there will be more Americans available for work. We'll soon have graduating classes entering the labor market.

My feeling is we need to write Tancredo and tell him point blank, no Guest Worker Program and ask him to remove it.

And here is another point to consider. The data used by the Department of Labor has been manipulated to show a lower unemployment rate than actually exists in the US. If you've been unemployed long term and no longer find the local Employment Security Commission office to be helpful in locating a job for you; your benefits have run out; and you're weary of traipsing down and standing in line to meet with an ESC employee who would truly wish you'd stop bothering them because they have no job to offer you, then those millions of Americans ARE NOT in the statistics. You have to go down and be counted in the 4 weeks prior to the montly report OR you are not in the figures.

The labor department has become an advocacy group for immigration.

This aspect of the Trancredo Bill kills it for me. It's Communism for them to set any rate beyond minimum wage.

Also, Elaine Chaio tried to cheat people out of their over-time. Proposed exempting workers earning less than $20,000 a year from automatic over-time. Her explanation was that this would be good for the workers because they could get more hours. It would encourage employers to give them more work. Can you believe this? This is so unbelievable. That's why I investigated her background...and alas....not really American in her roots or family. To pick on the lowest wage earners and exempt them from automatic over-time is UNCONSIONABLE. It failed but that is her thinking. And she'll try again. OR someone will. Once seeds like this are planted in a Cabinet Level Department, someone will pursue that Bright Idea again in the future.

Good work everyone.

So now where are we?

Back to: Enforce Existing Immigration Law.

No new legislation unless it is to CAP legal immigration at numbers below where they were this year and to order troops to the borders.

We don't even need legislation to get troops to the borders. We just need an Order from the Governors or the Wackident.

Then they submit an emergency funding to fund just like Katrina, Rita, Wilma and the rest.

Boy, have we been screwed! I can't BELIEVE that Tancredo would stoop to this level and let down all of us who truly BELIEVED that he wanted to STOP this travesty. I am very disappointed and feel betrayed.

I still say that his bill comes CLOSER to solving the problem than the Kennedy/McCain bill or the Kyl/Cornyn bill but there should be NO MENTION of amnesty OF ANY DESCRIPTION.

Judy--VERY interesting research on Elaine Chao. I think what she wants to do about the overtime is a disgrace. I know people who HAVE to work overtime just to make ends meet. And, for her to espouse this proposal for the LOWEST WAGE EARNERS is a DISGRACE to the nation. You can see where HER interests lie.

Like Lou Dobbs says repeatedly, the middle class is fast disappearing in America. This adminstration is bent on destroying the middle class. You can tell that by every single "solution" they propose. You are either going to have to be independently wealthy or dirt poor to survive in this economy. And, Judy--I agree wholeheartedly with you on the unemployment figures. I have been yelling this all along. Why can't people wake up and see that the only ones that are counted in their statistics are the ones who are still able to get unemployment. Once they drop off the unemployment rolls, they drop off the radar screen. They just have no way of determining how many people have run out of unemployment and are still out there desperately searching for jobs. The other thing that REALLY bothers me about the unemployment figures is that they don't reflect what types of jobs the people have been forced to take to replace the ones they've lost. If they've had to go from jobs that payed $10-15 an hour to jobs that pay the minimum wage, THAT is NOT GOOD NEWS. And, at least where I live, that is exactly what's happening. These people who have worked in furniture factories or textile mills were making a liveable wage and had good benefits and the only jobs left are the low paying "service" jobs. Be a greeter at Wal-Mart. Flip burgers at McDonald's. This is just NOT a fair assessment of the unemployment figures.

This country is fast losing ground and I just don't see how in the world we are going to be able to turn it around in our lifetimes.

Oooh, goodie, some great data and points. I am included in an email blog with Rob Sanchez (ZaZona.com, Dr. Norm Matloff, and many others). As soon an as the prop hit circulation they have been screaming about this very point. For some reason or another Tancredo hasn't been the greatest combatant when it comes to the H-1b paradigm. It not that he is in support of it, in fact he has always voted against it. And in response to your comment Judy:

and soon upper level professional categories

the H-1b plight is a direct assault on these jobs. These jobs used to pay an average of 80,000 a year, and are held by people with lots of American information and security. Nothing that I want foreign nations/nationals to have in their hands!

The H-1b fight is a tuff fight. Two big problems cloud this issue. The biggest is the fact that you have people who like to be in charge, but cannot relinquish control and split the work load to be an effective entity. Everyone wants to be in charge! The second is that the Americans who don't work in the areas affected don't sympathize. They feel "bah, your paid too much anyway", or something to that effect. That is hard to get people to listen and hear how it is only a matter of time till it spreads to them with another flavor of visa.

The next field that will be devastated, and was mentioned in your post Judy, is nursing. We are already hearing about the shortage, which is the symptom and precursor. The Philippines already have a massive amount of nurses ready to come here, in fact from what I have read they only use about 10% of the nurses they have!

Now for the DOL bureaucracy. You hit the nail on the head Judy. Unless you are drawing Unemployment, you are not COUNTED in the padded statistics! Now if you go to school to be re-trained in another field because you cannot find a job which you're highly proficient at, you again will not be COUNTED! If you take any job that you can find, even though you are paid 50% less than your previous (UNDEREMPLOYED) you again are NOT COUNTED!

They always seem to fail to make that disclaimer when they pump these statistics into the publics mind, isn’t it so convenient? Booshie bois clone army is in full assault mode and WE ARE THE TARGET!

And, I'm really hoping that, as early as TODAY, the tables will be turned on "BOOSHIE". I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Fitzgerald will indict the whole kit and kaboodle!

Originally Posted by Judy

This is Communism. This is the end.

Where is "Man". "Man" come in.

You've initiated an inquiry which has led to a Great Discovery....

I didn't initiate an inquiry. I corrected a false statement (something that is all too common on websites like this one). And the so-called "discover" is something that most people already knew.

Tancredo's already had his rump chewed on over his bill with the Guest Worker provisions in it.

Perhaps he wanted to influence the Guest Worker debate by doing so? Who knows?

W