Thread: Don't Believe The Ron Paul Hype

I think ALL the candidates are electible, it's just a matter of getting the necessary support.

Well, of course. Therein lies the rub.

It's the support they won't get - that's the long and short of it.

Ron Paul and the Giant Sucking Sound
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Jeff Freeland
Nov 23, 2007
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman...72617368.shtml

I never thought I would miss Ross Perot but Ron Paul certainly has made me long for the days of the eccentric Texas billionaire. Paul is running for the office of US President as a Republican. Paul is from Texas as well, but he is no Perot. Paul is a Constitutionalist and wants America out of Iraq yesterday, and he isn't really concerned about Iran developing nuclear weapons. He's worried about the falling dollar and s not a fan of the Federal Reserve.

Ron Paul and the Giant Sucking Sound

He is the fringe candidate of this political season and his supporters are out in full force on the World Wide Web. I'm not really certain when Ron Paul go sucked in, (I think it was when that money bomb that was held raised $4.2 million) but this presidential election season one giant sucking sound you hear is the credibility of the supporters and the candidate. Unless the course is changed, they are pretty much finished.


***


The anger and angst and the hand wringing are at times difficult to understand as Paul and his backers cry that the sky is falling. We're all doomed they claim unless Paul is elected as the next US President. That certainly is not going to happen, so it must be the end of the world as we know it. Still, Paul has valid points that likely should be included in the debate.

But they won't be as outside the circles of the Paul internet phenomenon Dr. Paul is virtually unknown. He has little mainstream press coverage and when he does get on national television he certainly can't deliver like Ross Perot once did. He made an appearance earlier on Jay Leno that many thought would introduce him to the general voting public that get their political news from late night comics. (Yes, they are out there.)


***


He needed a home run with that NBC appearance and he didn't even get a bunt single. His rabid fans believe that the appearance was a rousing success. It wasn't. It created no buzz the following day. Other than inside his political support circle no one was asking "Did you hear what Ron Paul said on Leno?"

Many of Paul's supporters weren't even out of grade school when Ross Perot came out of left field to captivate America leading up to the 1992 elections but when he made his appearances on Larry King or any other American television station, it was all that anyone could talk about. Ross Perot created a buzz with every appearance, Paul creates yawns.


***


Paul seems fairly satisfied with his angry white male support. He recently said in an interview that was impressed with their anger and hopes they keep it up. That's really a hopeless way to run a campaign, especially for a fringe candidate. For Paul and his ideas to be heard, he needs to move beyond the anger and create ideas that get him noticed outside of the Paul circle of support.
If he doesn't, the next giant sucking sound you hear will be Paul as he exits the field of candidates running for president.

--Political Analysis by Jeff Freeland

Ron Paul’s supporters use Rudy’s foreign policy views as a fund raising event http://www.usadaily.com/article.cfm?articleID=173474

Grass roots supporters of Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul have added November 30th as a mass donation day to support Ron Paul. The online fundraising event has been dubbed Rudy’s Reading List and if successful may be the most expensive education in history. The new site has already gained about 1000 subscribers.

Ron Paul supporters used Rudy Giuliani’s foreign policy views as the staging point for this latest online fund raising assault. The website features four foreign policy books including the ‘911 Commission Report’.


The website was set up by the same volunteer that created the website promoting the November 5th online fund raising drive that resulted in 37,000 donors and 4.2 million dollars for Paul’s campaign.

A later event called Tea Party 07 is scheduled for December 16th to commemorate the Boston Tea Party and already boasts close to 20,000 subscribers. The November 5th event had only 16,000 subscribers.

Paul and Giuliani have diametrically opposing views on a host of issues including foreign policy and civil liberties. Paul has made military non interventionism and protecting the Bill of Rights a center piece in his campaign.

Rudy Giuliani has made war and security the heart of his campaign. Giuliani has campaigned on his record as a crises manager during the 911 attacks.

Paul supporters are skeptical about Giuliani’s anti-terrorism record given his prior support for illegal aliens and alleged support for a ‘sanctuary city’ in New York since many of the 911 perpetrators were in the U.S. illegally. Visit the USA Daily Forum to discuss this and other issues.

Ron Paul Blimp Poised to Catapult Presidential Candidate into the Spotlight?


Ron Paul's devoted supporters seem to be intent on outdoing themselves in creativity when it comes to fundraising for their candidate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by Colette von Hessen
(Libertarian)

Is Ron Paul ready to be airborne again? First there was the Manhattan rooftop emblazoned with the words "GOOGLE RON PAUL" in the hopes that passing aircraft would notice and take heed. Then there were the airplanes flying by with "Ron Paul for President!" on banners flying saucily in the sun. Now there is the Ron Paul Blimp.



Organizers contacted Airship Management Services in Connecticut and were delighted to find that George Spyrou, whom they spoke to, was a Ron Paul supporter himself. They found that they will need to raise approximately $350,000 in order to lease the blimp for one month. A recent donor to the project indicated that she had just given $500 and was very excited to do so, stating that this was a great opportunity for Ron Paul supporters who have already given the maximum amount allowed by law of $2300. Mr. Spyrou offered the group a discount off the artwork for the blimp at the hefty sum of $50,000 to $100,000.

The blimp is one of the largest in the world, and flies at an average speed of about 30 miles per hour. It holds 12 passengers in addition to two pilots, and includes a restroom. Adding further excitement to the equation, all those who donate at least $25 towards the blimp are automatically eligible to be entered in a raffle for one of 20 tickets to ride the in the Ron Paul Blimp. Those donating $5,000 get 5 flying days in the blimp.

The creators of the Ron Paul Blimp website offer would-be donors all manner of tantalizing scenarios in order to entice them to give to the blimp fund:

"A blimp? A blimp!
Imagine..the mainstream media is mesmerized as the image of the Ron Paul blimp is shown to tens of millions of Americans throughout the day (and throughout the month). Wolf Blizter, stunned and as if in a trance, repeats the words "Amazing, Amazing".

As GPS co-ordinates stream to the website a map shows the Ron Paul blimp's location in real time. The local Television stations broadcast it's every move. The curious flock together and make a trip see history in the making. Emails with pictures are sent, then forwarded, then forwarded again. Youtube videos go viral and reach tens of millions of views. Ron Paul becomes the first presidential candidate in history to have his very own blimp. The PR stunt generates millions upon millions of dollars worth in free publicity, and captures the imagination of America."

Given the recent (and future) successes of such grassroots campaigning successes as the Fifth of November, the ad placed by a single self-described "concerned citizen" in USA Today, and Tea Party '07, the Ron Paul Blimp seems sure to ride the skies in no time.

nntrixie wrote:

I think ALL the candidates are electible, it's just a matter of getting the necessary support.

Well, of course. Therein lies the rub.

It's the support they won't get - that's the long and short of it.

Maybe not, but one thing is for certain - you can't possibly know for sure. Well, not unless you've got a crystal ball or some other device that can foresee the future.

Definition of electable:

e·lect·a·ble (-lkt-bl)
adj.
Fit or able to be elected, especially to public office: an electable candidate.

All the candidates running for office are deemed to be "fit or able to be elected."

I see you didn't respond to my comment concerning the MSM selecting our candidates for us. Well, the same thing would hold true for a biased web site. I'm going to support who I want to based on my belief of who would respond appropriately to the issues that are important to me, regardless of biased outside influence, and I have no problem with you doing the same. It's just my hope that you will find out all there is to know about all the candidates prior to making a choice, regardless of what the polls or MSM is telling you.

minnie wrote:

I don't think the Zogbi poll is some "supporter opinion" ...
And the MSM is not telling us about the 33% SUPPORT they found FOR Dr. Ron Paul .

With all due respect, minnie - that poll is virtually useless in determining a candidates suitability for President of the United States. None of the individuals polled were provided past voting records, indepth information on the candidates, no name, etc. All they were provided were three positions, one of which was the candidates position on the war. I would suggest that Paul's position on the war (cut & run) is the specific reason the majority of folks went with his position. Three positions on specific issues doesn't define who a candidate is, nor does it give us insight as to what we can expect during his or her presidency.

Honestly, many of those polled probably know very little about the war. I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume their knowledge is probably limited to what they see on the 6:00 o'clock news nightly. Well, their dislike for war us understandable because no one likes war. However, I think anyone who chooses a candidate simply because he's for immediate withdraw from Iraq is selling themselves short where choosing the best candidate is concerned. I won't deny that Ron Paul or one of the Democrat candidates are choices that deserve serious consideration if an immediate cut & run policy on Iraq is your top priority. Unfortunately though, there are some folks (not necessarily anyone on ALIPAC) that have chosen the war as there only issue for supporting a candidate.

This Might Help

Honesty

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgmJ1miBzek


Some thing that this country Has not had in...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smeyf8nh ... re=related

Do the Math; Ron Paul is the best choice for President

Adding up the benefits of Ron Paul as President. The numbers are pretty impressive and mean a lot for every little town in America.

by Michael McDonnough
(Libertarian)
http://www.nolanchart.com/article312.html



Total withholdings on $280 per week $7 per hour wage earner.

Federal Tax $27.17

FICA $17.36

Medicare $4.06

Source;http://www.pensoft.com/taxcalc.asp

That leaves this worker only $231.14 take home pay and if this worker works like most then he is going to put in at least 50 weeks in a year for an annual take home pay for this worker of $11,557.00 If this worker votes for Ron Paul for President and then had the nanny state off his back and could keep his little contribution what would it mean to him. It would mean an extra $2,443.00 that this worker could have held onto and perhaps saved for a down payment on a car or other items. This money likely would go into the local economy. There are lots of wage earners in this nation and they can all vote by the way.

In an area with say 500,000 wage earners residences which is pretty typical of the medium US city, and the median annual household income is let's say $35,000, and if Ron Paul was elected President that would mean that each household would have an extra $4,939.92 that would likely go into their local economy or saved in their local bank. That would mean that this medium US city of 500,000 wage earner households would have an added $2,469,960,000 injected into their local economy annually. That is a big number.

That gives you an idea of the power of Ron Paul's ideas. If we can opt out of this wasteful centralized federal payroll taxation system it would inject billions of dollars every year pumped into the local economy in every city of every state in the nation. Every little city of 1-2 million people would have an added annual income in the billions of dollars.

What could it do to your little city if it had an extra 2 or 3 billion dollars to spend on your own city and your own people every year? How many new businesses would it create? Perhaps your city could repair its own roads and bridges. Perhaps it could build a new airport to deal with all the new business created by all this extra local money.

That is the power of Ron Paul's ideas as applied to this nation. Billions of extra dollars annually for every little to medium town and city and more like extra 10's of billions of local dollars for every major city in the nation.

The Ron Paul Revolution is said by the campaign to be a bottom up type of operation. The entire nation is really a bottom to top system, all the money from the bottom is shoved to the top and the ones at the top decide how it will trickle back down. The Ron Paul Revolution is a revolution of deciders. With the people deciding that we have had enough of top down heavy handed tactics in our lives. We want our civil liberties restored, and we want a repeal of the police state. We the people the little wage earners have had enough and that is why we want Ron Paul elected President. It will mean extra billions of dollars injected annually into every city, our little city, in every state, our state and throughout the entire nation. That is the reason that Ron Paul will be elected as our next President, because you can't argue with the numbers and that is pretty clear. Ron Paul as President will mean greater abundance locally in a time of our greatest need.

America can get to work setting right all what decades of paying into a wasteful central planning system has allowed to happen. We will have the funds at our local level to start to reconstruct from the damage wrought from decades of federal screw-ups and boondoggles. The waste is hard to measure when the money pool is in the trillions of dollars so thieves can hide their tracks. When this money is distributed and spent at the local level it is a lot harder for thieves to pilfer through because the numbers are smaller and it is harder to hide fraud within those smaller numbers.

It will also mean the return to real value money that can be saved without losing its value. It will mean that if our sons and daughters are ask to fight for their country it will be this sovereign nation that they are fighting for and not in some nation that has fat oil reserves that some big US corporation wants to exploit.

There are many reasons to elect Ron Paul as President and I'm only covering a few but they are ones that we can measure, and we can all agree with in large enough numbers that he can certainly win. With the power of Ron Paul's ideas applied as I have laid out in this article it is clear that the main reason to elect Ron Paul is because we cannot afford not to. Do the math. Dr. Paul is the cure for a lot of ills, like being broke for instance, both personally and as a nation.

Hillary, Ron Paul, and the Coming End to Fascism.
A Letter to Dear Abby

Dear Abby:

My husband is a liar and a cheat. He has cheated on me from the beginning, and when I confront him, he denies everything. What's worse, everyone knows he cheats on me. It is so humiliating.

Also, since he lost his job five years ago he hasn't even looked for a new one. All he does is buy cigars and cruise around and jokes with his pals, while I have to work to pay the bills.

Since our daughter went away to college he doesn't even pretend to like me and hints that I am a lesbian. What should I do?

Signed,
Clueless

------------ --

Dear Clueless:

Grow up and dump him. For Pete's sake, you don't need him anymore. You're a United States Senator from New York. ACT LIKE IT!

Signed,
Abby

All of these guys would be funny if so many of us did not actually take them seriously. We need to stop doing that right away.

The Democratic Party put on its first debate in Iowa the other day. A few of their candidates said they would get us out of Iraq. Can you believe them? No. When you look at their records that is clear. Lying With Aplomb 101 is a required course for attorneys and politicians. The war in Iraq is a permanent part of the business plan for Big Oil. This administration and any of the corporate candidates now in try outs will keep us there. You do not build embassies the size of Disneyland if you do not plan to keep using them.

None of the corporate candidates, Dem. Or Rep., have the kind of record on that issue Republican Ron Paul has except Kucinich, who is a very nice guy. But Dennis also says he believes in flying saucers. That worries many people though it would be more worrisome if he believed anything Hillary says.

Hillary has been attacked because she is a woman and that is unfair and I resent it. I am a woman myself. Hear me roar.

Instead she should be attacked because she is a life long employee of the corporations, along with Bill. Also because her life long ambition is to have twice as much money and power as John D. Rockefeller with half the ethical qualms he demonstrated during his career. Rockefeller would probably been struck with awe over the kind of stealing Hillary routinely carries out, smiling as she inserts the knife elegantly in the back of such individuals as Peter Paul, the Hollywood Mogul who she mangled in 2000. That case is now forcing its way to court.

That should scare you; Rockefeller and most of his descendants show all of the simple decency and honesty we associate with Bluebeard or Attila the Hun, with slightly improved personal hygiene.

For THAT she should be attacked. For staying married to Bill perhaps we should send certificates for therapy and sympathy cards to Chelsea, who is evidently a very nice young woman and not embarrassingly EDIT like the Bush girls.

None of these people, with the exceptions of Paul on the Republican side and Kucinich and Gravel on the Democratic side, should be trusted with your piggy bank because the piggy bank would either be emptied or disappear entirely. These people steal so readily they don't even think of it as stealing. They are nothing if not consistent and the most cursory examination of the source of their donations tells you who will benefit from their election to office. This whole process has been formalized as 'bundling' which means, "the practice through which multiple individual contributions from a single industry or interest group are delivered to a candidate over a relatively short period of time." It used to be bundling was about courting but I suppose this really is a form of courting, isn't it?

Ron Paul has committed himself to restoring Constitutional integrity. Him, you can believe he does not run around bundling. If he is elected, and survives to hold office, he will do just that, restore integrity. Surviving the reaction of the International Banks, GridBanks, and the GridCorps, those invested in those profitable enterprises, is a separate question. Let's hope that he has better security that those running his traditional campaign are likely to arrange.

The people running the Ron Paul campaign come with a curious lineage. The lines of connection run back to the infamous and now well exposed Cato Institute. In case you had not yet broken through the disinformation campaign paid for by Koch Industries, Cato was created to mainstream into the minds of Americans curious alterations of words and concepts. In this way came about the conversion of the word, privatization, coined by Robert Poole of Reason Magazine into its real functional meaning today, of corporatization. Poole, an engineer by training, has made no comment on this but retired to play with his model trains in Florida.

Milton Friedman, who displaced Murray Rothbard in the eyes of the world as a free market guru, helped enable this take over through the esoteria of 'Chicago School' economics after Murray's ejection from the founding board of Cato Institute in 1981. Murray had not realized he was supposed to be window dressing, well paid window dressing. For Murray facts and principles came first.

All of this would be ancient history and forgotten if not for the ongoing effort to convert the political process into stage dressing for the continuing conversion of Americans and their institutions into assets of the International Banks or GridBanks, and their partners, the GridCorps. (see definitions at the end of this article to make sure we are on the same page.) Ron Paul is the monkey wrench in their well oiled machine. Notice how firmly those listed below ignore Paul.

Somewhere along the way they got cocky and stupid and now that is catching up with them. They, like the Emperor, have no clothes; now we can see it and it is not an appetizing sight.

Sometimes even your sharpest critics can be embarrassed by your stupidity.

That was my most most visceral reaction as I reviewed the website for the "Defending the American Dream Summit" held in Washington D. C. at the upscale Mayflower Hotel over two days, October 4th and 5th; . It left nothing to the imagination, not even whose dream they were defending. That would be their own very personal wet dreams of prosperity realized by draining the blood from everyone else.

They don't understand how obvious they are. Speakers were drawn from the employees of the cookie cutter organizations and reliable NeoPundits. But even as I was still cringing I realized that opportunity was pounded on the door, providing the means to make a few small points.

An amazing number of the individuals and organizations represented at the Summit were born in the cookie cutter factory of what many of us have come to think of as the Howie Cogworks of the Crane Machine. Howie is Howie Rich, the clever Objectivist who dumped his first wife and managed to grab all the goodies in the divorce by asking her for an open marriage and then setting a snoop on her. Howie was already EDIT his present wife, Andrea Millen Rich, who came from far back in the hills of Tennessee where all kinds of interesting EDIT goes on.

The Crane Machine refers to Edward H. Crane, III, the ambitious financial advisor who my source in that industry said he did not consider trustworthy back in the 70s before Crane went political. Crane went on to found Cato Institute with David Koch, Second Brother for Koch Industries. Brother William has been quoted as saying they are no better than gangsters.

The Summit event was the spamchild of two separate factions of the NeoCon Movement and defines the place where Libertarianism meets Strauss. Evidently, some people have not yet gotten the word "Americans for Prosperity," is yet another cookie cutter retread for that group that has congealed around the aging adherents to Cato Institute and the Howie Rich Cog organizations. Those organizations, including Club for Growth (of their personal bank accounts) reproduced endlessly from U. S. Term Limits and Americans for Limited Government.

It would boggle your mind to know how many of these cookie cutter organizations they have spawned. See the thorough outing given to them by Hart Williams. Hart did the work but did not get the credit. Life is like that. Hart's Crusade continues with articles coming out several times a day on occasion. He isn't obsessive, just determined to out them.

The Cato-Howie partner in this crime against common sense is American Solutions, yet another organization whelped by Newt Gingrich intended to suck in the ideas of innovative Americans to be homogenized into Newt Talk. Their common lynch pin is John Fund, who has an interesting history himself. Fund himself was outed by Justin Raimondo at Anti-War.com in 2006. This article fleshes out that story.

The 'strategy' they and their associate, Newt Gingrich, follows has been distorting American politics since that strategy was adopted by the Progressives in 1892. That strategy bears a curious resemblance to that of Leo Strauss. That 'philosophy' holds that it is perfectly appropriate to lie, cheat, and steal your way to power if you are destined to rule. A curiously convenient train of thought for those of an avaricious nature.

Lies come in many kinds. Those include the use of rhetoric completely detached from its real meaning. That larding was thick on the air at this NeoCon love fest.

Those attending ooze words like, 'freedom,' 'free enterprise,' "the sanctity of family,' and 'American Values.' They evoke the name of Ronald Reagan with nearly every sentence.

Please note that Ronald Reagan was never a Conservative. He was truly warm, human and charismatic. But no Conservative. He was himself an early NeoCon hire by Big Oil who then ruled from the Rockefeller end of the Republican Party. This was pointed out by the REAL very Conservative people who got him the nomination for governor in California in 1966, United Republicans of California. At first they were stunned when, ignoring his promises to lower taxes and shrink government (does that sound familiar?) he instead federalized California.

The group, now headed by Connie Ruffley and Marion Hurley, who was active at the time, went on to track his performance and issue a resolution at their 1975 Convention in Santa Maria, CA, urging that no one support Ronnie for either President or Vice President. Obviously, no one paid the slightest attention. The three pages of documentation in 8 point type takes some time to read. The bottom line: Ronnie was not a Conservative; his ideas politically were liberal. His motivation for moving into politics was most probably based on the fact his gig on TV was coming to an end.

Finding this out was painful for a lot of us but better the truth than continuing into Big Oil Fantasyland. Now you know. If you doubt, call UROC. They are still in existence and endorsed Ron Paul for President. If you still doubt consider Reagan's record as president. If you admired him it makes you want to cry.

Attendees at the Howie Cog Summit were expected to be enthusiastic about the prospect of a White House Briefing, scheduled right at the beginning of the event That crowd was to depart from Mayflower Lobby at 12:30 pm on Thursday, October 4th. Obviously, bolstering up George Bush must be done at every opportunity.

Hard to imagine an American excited by meeting the occupant of the White House today, but the people of the Howie-Crane-Newt World live in different reality all the time. Of course, given the difficulty of finding audiences who will not boo or demonstrate the Briefing could have been subsidized by Halliburton.

There is a long and dishonorable linkage between the Straussians and the NeoLibertarians; they both spin lies and science fiction into packages intended to attract the credulous and so generate donations, either to political campaigns or not-for-profits that are about nothing but profiting on disinformation, I call those Spamchildren. But Newt has to hustle a little more energetically because he does not have his very own personal billionaire, Charles or David Koch. He had long run with the Contract On America Con but all good things must end, even for third rate science fiction writers.

Why do I say, 'largess?' They had to pay to get their audience.

Early registration was only $49 and $29 for students, and included breakfast, lunch, and a special "Tribute to Ronald Reagan" dinner.

While registration was closed elsewhere on the web I learned that there was a special package offered including transportation, hotel and registration for only $199! Wow. And at the Mayflower Hotel, for your information, a quality room for one night costs 459.00(USD) per night. Sounds to me like David Koch was underwriting the event so they could get enough people in to look like a real conference. They did the same with Ed Crane when Koch ran as vice-president in 1980. Alternative 80, the event held in Los Angeles to much fan fare, lost a quarter of a million dollars. It had been billed as a fundraiser. Brother Charles was quite annoyed, complaining to Crane that, "David had spent capital, not just interest!" I listened with rapt attention to that rant in the elevator that day after the event. Perhaps I should have sent a sympathy note.

The price does make you wonder how many of those attending the Summit stayed to any event that did not include food.

This is why you will not see any of these people saying a word about Ron Paul. Ron is, in effect, the garlic that wards off the werewolves of greed and acts as the stake through the heart of Count Dracula of Deceit. An honest man with no pretenses is hard to hit with lies.

But if he is elected Ron Paul will oversee an administration that will make history. In that four year period America will produce an automobile that can get 400 miles a gallon. In that same four years 60% of Americans will get off the electrical grid, producing their own electricity, DC, for less than $100.00 a year in fuel. At the end of his first term the FED will be dead. Americans will again own their own souls.

To get there we need honest elections. Accomplishing that can be done with a coalition between the honest parts of the Right and Left if they come together to force paper ballots, election of those counting the votes as the precinct level, and transparent, open tallies on line, with all of us watching the totals.

If we do that we can, perhaps, also ensure that the GridBanks do not do to China what they are now doing to us. Now THAT would be bad for everyone's security.

So, Hillary may be scary but sometimes the most important need is closer to home.

Organize Locally, Get off the Grids. Build Coalition.

.. dear abby is smart today.

Originally Posted by MW

nntrixie wrote:

I think ALL the candidates are electible, it's just a matter of getting the necessary support.

Well, of course. Therein lies the rub.

It's the support they won't get - that's the long and short of it.

Maybe not, but one thing is for certain - you can't possibly know for sure. Well, not unless you've got a crystal ball or some other device that can foresee the future.

Definition of electable:

[quote:1s0eiw94]e·lect·a·ble (-lkt-bl)
adj.
Fit or able to be elected, especially to public office: an electable candidate.

All the candidates running for office are deemed to be "fit or able to be elected."

I see you didn't respond to my comment concerning the MSM selecting our candidates for us. Well, the same thing would hold true for a biased web site. I'm going to support who I want to based on my belief of who would respond appropriately to the issues that are important to me, regardless of biased outside influence, and I have no problem with you doing the same. It's just my hope that you will find out all there is to know about all the candidates prior to making a choice, regardless of what the polls or MSM is telling you.

minnie wrote:

I don't think the Zogbi poll is some "supporter opinion" ...
And the MSM is not telling us about the 33% SUPPORT they found FOR Dr. Ron Paul .

With all due respect, minnie - that poll is virtually useless in determining a candidates suitability for President of the United States. None of the individuals polled were provided past voting records, indepth information on the candidates, no name, etc. All they were provided were three positions, one of which was the candidates position on the war. I would suggest that Paul's position on the war (cut & run) is the specific reason the majority of folks went with his position. Three positions on specific issues doesn't define who a candidate is, nor does it give us insight as to what we can expect during his or her presidency.

Honestly, many of those polled probably know very little about the war. I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume their knowledge is probably limited to what they see on the 6:00 o'clock news nightly. Well, their dislike for war us understandable because no one likes war. However, I think anyone who chooses a candidate simply because he's for immediate withdraw from Iraq is selling themselves short where choosing the best candidate is concerned. I won't deny that Ron Paul or one of the Democrat candidates are choices that deserve serious consideration if an immediate cut & run policy on Iraq is your top priority. Unfortunately though, there are some folks (not necessarily anyone on ALIPAC) that have chosen the war as there only issue for supporting a candidate. [/quote:1s0eiw94]

I DON'T WANT TO PERSONALY ANSWER YOU, SO THIS IS AN ANSWER THAT CAN FIT ANYONE WHO THINK OF HIMSELF/HERSELF THE OWNERS OF THE TRUTH AND WELL INFORMED WHEN IN REALITY DON'T KNOW ANYTHING EXCEPT THE DESIRE TO IMPOSE HIS/HER WRONG VIEWS OVER OTHERS LIKE DICTATORS WHO NORMALLY SERVE AS MODELS FOR PERSONS LIKE THIS.
WHEN THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE COME TO YOU AND SAY IT IS NIGHT, IT DOES'N HELP
IF YOU CONTINUE TO SAY IS DAY . YOU HAVE TO SHOW AND PROVE IT IS DAY.
UNTIL NOW ALL THE ARGUMENTS HAVE BEEN REFUTATED, THEY LOOK LIKE LIES AND EMPTY ACCUSATIONS.
TO ME IT SEEMS LIKE DESPAIR.
ALL DICTATORS SUFFER FROM THE SAME ILLNESS.
I SUGGEST YOU TO KEEP CAMPAIGNING TO YOUR CANDIDATE, AS YOU SAY, HE WILL BE A GREAT PRESIDENT, AND STOP MESSING AROUND WITTH OTHER PEOPLE BELIEVES .
THE DREAMERS AND ILLEGALS ALSO WHISH US TO EMBRACE THEIR CAUSE....

WE DON'T WANT TO DENIGRATE ANY CANDIDATE, AS WELL AS WE DON'T WANT OUR CANDITATE TO BE DENIGRATED, RESPECT AND BE RESPECTED IS THE MINIMUN WE CAN ASK ON A BOARD LIKE ALIPAC WHICH WE CAN PROUDLY ASSUME IT IS ONE OF THE MOST RESPECTAFUL ON THE INTERNET.
IT'S NOT FAIR TO RUINE SOMETHING THAT WE ALL HAVE WORKED SO HARD ,UNITED, TO BUILD.
I DON'T KNOW IF WE ARE GOING TO ACCOMPLISH WHAT WE ARE FIGHTING FOR, WE HAVE ALREADY MANY FORCES AGAINST US, BUT YOU AND OTHERS CAN BE SURE THE PEOPLE WHO IS BEHIND RON PAUL, SINCERELY BELIEVE HE IS THE BEST TO SAVE, TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY AND RETURN THIS GREAT NATION TO WEHAT OUR FOREFATHERS ENVISINED FOR US. RON PAUL IS A DREAM COME TRUE AS HE IS THE ONLY CANDIDATE UNTIL NOW WHOSE OBJECTIVES ARE THE SAME AS OURS (AND THE GREAT MAJORITY THAT IS RECEIVING HIS MESSAGE )
EVEN PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD IS SUPPORTING HIM.

FREEDOM - LIBERTY - SOVEREIGNTY - THE POWER RECEIVED FROM GOD and the most important PEACE

THIS IS A BLESSED LAND, LETS GET HER BACK .