Thread: The lid is OFF 9/11/01!!!

Originally Posted by MW

Come on guys, do realize what your're suggesting. There is no way our government was directly responsible for 9/11. IMHO, to even suggest such is absolutely crazy and that's all I'm going to say about that.

Nothing personal, PinestrawGuy. You have the right to your opinion.

In my opinion
I would tend to agree with you, In my opinion

1 Our goverment would have had nothing to gain

2 people are always looking for a way to over throw the Amewrican goverment, and comming up with Ideas the goverment has caused the direct deaths of a mass amount of people is always the first broken straw they fall to picking on.

3 I keep remmeberring the names of the people in the towers, wernt some related to all knids of goverment workers in congress and house of as well as offices them selves. iM SORRY I SEEM TO REMMEBER BUSH HAD A FEW FRIENDS THERE AS WELL,THERE NAMES WERE the AMERICAN CITIZENS..



Just like any other real tragegdy that is caused by terrorist in this world there was a way to avoid it. (OUR GOVERMENT OUR NOT terrorist) but we didnt thats why its a tragedy.

In my opinion stories and arguments such as these make us Bush haters and Goverment rippers, instead of common good activist. Im sorry but we have beter fish to fry.

"In New York, the damage continued into late afternoon, as a third building in the World Trade Center complex, Building 7, collapsed in a plume of flames at about 5:20 p.m. Authorities had been moving people out of the area prior to the collapse, as a fire in the lower part of the 47-floor building had made it unstable."

Ghost

This is your proof ? Where's the story about a bulge. This snipet just talks about a fire and draws the conclusion that the builing was unstable. You admit in your post that

What I do believe happened beyond reasonable doubt is that the administration had the buildings imploded after the fact.

. Am i to believe from this that someone ran around in all that chaos planting explosives on what ? 20, 30, 50 different stories of the WTC. Doesn't sound reasonable to me.

UB

Originally Posted by GREGAGREATAMERICAN

In my opinion stories and arguments such as these make us Bush haters and Goverment rippers, instead of common good activist. Im sorry but we have beter fish to fry.

That's why it's in the 'Other Topics' section, Greg.

The BBC announces the collapse of Building 7 20 minutes before it fell. Having been glued to the TV all day I heard the same thing everyone else did, that the building had been weakened by falling debris and scattered fires. But wait, the building was DESIGNED to lose large sections of floors and still retain it's structural integrity. That was the reason the City of New York put their Emergency Response Center there. I believe the SEC maintained offices in this building, as well. Funny how all those fraud and insider trading cases went out the window as the building fell.

Crocket made a valid point with the possible use of suitcase nukes to drop the towers, rather than let them topple into other buildings, creating even more death and destruction. I would think that action would leave much of the upper floors intact though, which would limit that scenario's effectiveness.

Sis mentions the construction of the towers, but it's common knowledge that jet fuel, which is nothing more than glorified kerosene, cannot burn hot enough to melt the structural steel, even with it's fire-proof coating knocked off. They're several hundred degrees short on that. Celsius.

I brought up the idea that the towers were going to have to be deconstructed by 2010, and the owners knew this as early as 1989. It would have cost $20 billion, and the buildings were only worth $4 billion. Not a good financial position to be in.

I've always questioned the put options on the airlines and companies affected by the event, and have come to learn that these 'options' were executed in stock exchanges worldwide, generating $$$billions in profits. It seems that most of those options were traded by companies with close ties to the CIA and their 'associates'.

I do believe that MANY people involved in this act were and are deeply connected to the current administration, and that this administration is nothing more than a puppet of the globalist bankers that are REALLY running the show. I can ascribe no blackness to the heart of GWB that wasn't already there. From Grandpa Prescott bankrolling Nazi Germany to Daddy George and the CIA killing Kennedy, the family does have priors.

If you think they give a rat's azz about ANY of us, you ain't done your homework!

Sis mentions the construction of the towers, but it's common knowledge that jet fuel, which is nothing more than glorified kerosene, cannot burn hot enough to melt the structural steel, even with it's fire-proof coating knocked off. They're several hundred degrees short on that. Celsius.

As I've mentioned many times before, the Elevator Shafts caused a very serious problem and these types of shafts are not used anymore.
We have professional knowledge concerning these particular faulty shafts.
At the time they were installed, it was a fete. It was a huge mistake as the 'drafts' that the particular design created were obviously never factored into the construction properly considering the number of floors they serviced {height of the shaft.} The materials {or lack of} within the shaft structures were also questionable.
As many people might have experienced over the past few years, elevators within such large structures are now separated in sections.

HOWEVER, I have no knowledge of the Elevator Shafts in building 7....I won't comment on that particular building but I certainly can imagine the necessity of bringing her down ourselves considering the other possibilities of increased destruction should she have imploded on her own.

Fyi: I believe that Giulianni had his special task force located in building 7, if that's what you're referring to, PINE. Shapka would know that piece of information for verification but I'm 99% certain they were in building 7.

Originally Posted by UB

"In New York, the damage continued into late afternoon, as a third building in the World Trade Center complex, Building 7, collapsed in a plume of flames at about 5:20 p.m. Authorities had been moving people out of the area prior to the collapse, as a fire in the lower part of the 47-floor building had made it unstable."

Ghost

This is your proof ? Where's the story about a bulge. This snipet just talks about a fire and draws the conclusion that the builing was unstable. You admit in your post that [quote:1caf7xh9]What I do believe happened beyond reasonable doubt is that the administration had the buildings imploded after the fact.

. Am i to believe from this that someone ran around in all that chaos planting explosives on what ? 20, 30, 50 different stories of the WTC. Doesn't sound reasonable to me.

UB[/quote:1caf7xh9]
Proof? I don't recall any discussion of anything being "proof." But what I had stated was that there was, as I well remember, an ongoing situation with that building throughout the day and a bulge in one of the exterior walls that brought about concern of a collapse. You may readily find mentions of the bulge in any of the press reports of the day, all of which are available with a simple web search. I was not attempting to "prove" anything, but rather pointing out that your conspiracy theorist fails to mention that the building had been the subject of fears of collapse for some time before the building actually collapsed and well before the BBC report that he sees as evidence that the thing was "scripted."

I also already explained that there would have been no need to plant multiple implosive charges in order to implode the buildings. It seems that you have accused me of not reading what you wrote, then commenting without reading what I have written.

What I find positively ludicrous is the notion that somehow federal plotters sneaked into all these buildings BEFORE 9/11 and pre-rigged the buildings to blow. I would suggest that you read the rebuttal posted by MW. I disagree with a couple of the findings, but by and large it is a credible rebuttal to all the conspiracy lunacy.

But here is some more commentary on the status of Building 7 that bolsters the evidence previously provided:

from Paul Thompson "The Terror Timeline" (pp. 441, 466)

After 9:59 am: WTC Building 7 appears damaged

WTC Building 7 appears to have suffered significant damage at some point after the WTC towers had collapsed, according to firefighters at the scene. Firefighter Butch Brandies tells other firefighters that nobody is to go into Building 7 because of creaking and noises coming out of there. According to Deputy Chief Peter Hayden, there is a bulge in the southwest corner of the building between floors 10 and 13. Battalion Chief John Norman later recalls, "At the edge of the south face you could see that it was very heavily damaged." Deputy Chief Nick Visconti also later recalls recounts, "A big chunk of the lower floors had been taken out on the Vesey Street side." Captain Chris Boyle recalls, "On the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors."

4:30 pm: WTC Building 7 Area is Evacuated

The area around WTC Building 7 is evacuated at this time. New York fire department chief officers, who have surveyed the building, have determined it is in danger of collapsing. Several senior firefighters have described this decision-making process. According to fire chief Daniel Nigro, "The biggest decision we had to make was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged building [WTC Building 7]. A number of fire offices and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt."

Originally Posted by PinestrawGuys

Originally Posted by GREGAGREATAMERICAN

In my opinion stories and arguments such as these make us Bush haters and Goverment rippers, instead of common good activist. Im sorry but we have beter fish to fry.

That's why it's in the 'Other Topics' section, Greg.

The BBC announces the collapse of Building 7 20 minutes before it fell. Having been glued to the TV all day I heard the same thing everyone else did, that the building had been weakened by falling debris and scattered fires. But wait, the building was DESIGNED to lose large sections of floors and still retain it's structural integrity. That was the reason the City of New York put their Emergency Response Center there. I believe the SEC maintained offices in this building, as well. Funny how all those fraud and insider trading cases went out the window as the building fell.

Crocket made a valid point with the possible use of suitcase nukes to drop the towers, rather than let them topple into other buildings, creating even more death and destruction. I would think that action would leave much of the upper floors intact though, which would limit that scenario's effectiveness.

Sis mentions the construction of the towers, but it's common knowledge that jet fuel, which is nothing more than glorified kerosene, cannot burn hot enough to melt the structural steel, even with it's fire-proof coating knocked off. They're several hundred degrees short on that. Celsius.

I brought up the idea that the towers were going to have to be deconstructed by 2010, and the owners knew this as early as 1989. It would have cost $20 billion, and the buildings were only worth $4 billion. Not a good financial position to be in.

I've always questioned the put options on the airlines and companies affected by the event, and have come to learn that these 'options' were executed in stock exchanges worldwide, generating $$$billions in profits. It seems that most of those options were traded by companies with close ties to the CIA and their 'associates'.

I do believe that MANY people involved in this act were and are deeply connected to the current administration, and that this administration is nothing more than a puppet of the globalist bankers that are REALLY running the show. I can ascribe no blackness to the heart of GWB that wasn't already there. From Grandpa Prescott bankrolling Nazi Germany to Daddy George and the CIA killing Kennedy, the family does have priors.

If you think they give a rat's azz about ANY of us, you ain't done your homework!

Actually, the vertical column of superheated gases from a suitcase nuke would have risen inside the structure and vaporized or melted steel for some distance. The floors above the critical temperature would have fallen almost at the rate of a freefall and pancaked on top of the molten and vaporized debris, which is exactly what we saw. The explanation given in MW's post makes a half-hearted effort to explain away the fact that the molten steel was at the bottom of the heap, not up on the upper floors as should have been expected given the official story. Only something such as a suitcase nuke could have melted the bottom supports and created a freefall such that the towers collapsed in a total of 9 and 11 seconds. The progressive stress scenario provided would have seen considerable deceleration as the fasteners gave way, meaning that collapse should have been at a rate of acceleration considerably less than that of gravity (9.8m/sec/sec).

Originally Posted by PinestrawGuys

Originally Posted by GREGAGREATAMERICAN

In my opinion stories and arguments such as these make us Bush haters and Goverment rippers, instead of common good activist. Im sorry but we have beter fish to fry.

That's why it's in the 'Other Topics' section, Greg.

The BBC announces the collapse of Building 7 20 minutes before it fell. Having been glued to the TV all day I heard the same thing everyone else did, that the building had been weakened by falling debris and scattered fires. But wait, the building was DESIGNED to lose large sections of floors and still retain it's structural integrity. That was the reason the City of New York put their Emergency Response Center there. I believe the SEC maintained offices in this building, as well. Funny how all those fraud and insider trading cases went out the window as the building fell.

Crocket made a valid point with the possible use of suitcase nukes to drop the towers, rather than let them topple into other buildings, creating even more death and destruction. I would think that action would leave much of the upper floors intact though, which would limit that scenario's effectiveness.

Sis mentions the construction of the towers, but it's common knowledge that jet fuel, which is nothing more than glorified kerosene, cannot burn hot enough to melt the structural steel, even with it's fire-proof coating knocked off. They're several hundred degrees short on that. Celsius.

I brought up the idea that the towers were going to have to be deconstructed by 2010, and the owners knew this as early as 1989. It would have cost $20 billion, and the buildings were only worth $4 billion. Not a good financial position to be in.

I've always questioned the put options on the airlines and companies affected by the event, and have come to learn that these 'options' were executed in stock exchanges worldwide, generating $$$billions in profits. It seems that most of those options were traded by companies with close ties to the CIA and their 'associates'.

I do believe that MANY people involved in this act were and are deeply connected to the current administration, and that this administration is nothing more than a puppet of the globalist bankers that are REALLY running the show. I can ascribe no blackness to the heart of GWB that wasn't already there. From Grandpa Prescott bankrolling Nazi Germany to Daddy George and the CIA killing Kennedy, the family does have priors.

If you think they give a rat's azz about ANY of us, you ain't done your homework!

World Trade Center housed Salomon Smith Barney; American Express Bank International; Standard Chartered Bank; Provident Financial Management; ITT Hartford Insurance Group; First State Management Group, Inc.; Federal Home Loan Bank; and NAIC Securities.


The position of Building 7 in relation to the other WTC buildings before September 11, 2001.
The government agencies housed at 7 World Trade Center were the Secret Service, the Department of Defense, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), the Mayor's Office of Emergency Management, the Internal Revenue Service Regional Council (IRS), and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).


It doesn’t seem logical that ore government wanted to take theses office down on purpose to hide something.


At 5:20 p.m. EDT on September 11, 2001, 7 World Trade Center collapsed. It had been evacuated; there were no casualties.
i cant find any other valid reasoning other then damage as a result 1/2 falling it is possible that the videos don’t show all. it is possible n likely that video of it falling could be misconstrued as a ploy.
I do think they give a hoot about us, wouldnt they have only been hurting there selves. But you could be right bushes tax return could have been in there and he didn’t want to pay
Come on..... May\be Bin Laden had planed to immigrate to the United States and his papers were being held up due to he had not paid his fee’s yet. Nobody knows….

It is possible that the bad boys that caused the buildings to fall in the first place, knew what the were doing and hoped more damage could have been caused. But didnt the tapes from bin laden say he didnt expect all that but he was glad it happen ill see if i cant find the link to the tape tape.

Originally Posted by anniealone

Originally Posted by MW

Honestly, I'm a little shocked regarding some of the postings in this thread. CG is right, people with nothing better to do with their time stay up late nights to dream these conspiracy theory scenarios up. It just surprises me that so many people take the bait, hook, line, and sinker. I guess some of us are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

No matter what we personally think of President Bush, he doesn't have as black a heart as some would have us believe. There is no way on Gods green earth he deliberately murdered 5,000 American men, women, and children to further an agenda and there is no evidence to substantiate such an outrageous claim.

Thank you MW. I agree with you 100%

MW...Annie...I am with you. There is no way that our government would do this. I think that we can take any debate and sculpt it to fit the result
that we want, but this is too much. This was not the first attack on the Twin Towers, and it certainly wasn't the first terrorist attack against our country. I hate conspiracy theories because they destroy the solidarity in America and give our enemies incentive to continue their wrongdoings. How do we know that these conpriracy theorists aren't out to destroy our nation? They certainly seem determined to separate us.

Link to some other points way out in left field and some that hit home runs
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/Emai ... 006_2.html