Thread: Old-line Republican warns 'something's in the works....'

With everything else that's been going on, I completely forgot about that story! I heard it a few months back (on Alex Jones I believe).

That's a blockbuster revelation. You'd think it would be reported by the MSM, right? That in and of itself should tell you a whole lot right there!

Right now, I am wondering about all the raids to round up illegals we are hearing about. What is that all about? They haven't been doing it all this time. Why now after their bill didn't pass. They are upset with the American people, they wanted all these people made legal - so why are they trying to show us just how tough they are?

I don't know, but dollars to donuts, it has nothing whatsoever to do with enforcing the laws - or making our country safe?

That's a real good question. I think a hint of what the motivation is can be found in the fact that they are only going after certain companies while there are companies in violation EVERYWHERE.

A FEW POSSIBILITIES:

Does the president think he can fool at least some of the outraged public (that shut down the phone lines over the amnesty threat) into going back to sleep?

Does Bush think he can soothe some of the ruffled feathers of the conservative base, and avoid the complete destruction of the Republican Party that will be his LEGACY? (I do think LEGACY is a possible motivating factor at this point for the president).

Is the president just at loose ends, having actually lost his mind? Is he just unable to order coherent actions, instead grasping at straws and doing a little of this and a little of that? I mean, maybe he's just LOST IT! Maybe the disappointment of things not turning out with him as the great hero has just been too much for him.

Perhaps it could be done to cause such an outcry in the pro open borders community that Bush will be able to say "you see, we tried deporting people and it just doesn't work" - akin to our strategy to ruin New Haven's plans by seeming to go along with it and helping it to end in a failure.

Assuming the attempting-to-take-over-dictatorial-powers scenerio, the fear and resentment caused by the raids would help encourage civil unrest, further confrontations and angry demonstrations that could help pave the way for the crisis needed to put the executive orders into action. I mean, without some raids, how can they keep the other side stirred up?

ONE thing is certain, its not a straightforward attempt to enforce the law. We already know this administrations predeliction for sneakiness, manipulations and outright LIES. Straightforwardness seems to something this administration would be incapable of.

That's a blockbuster revelation. You'd think it would be reported by the MSM, right? That in and of itself should tell you a whole lot right there!

One would think so! But how many people have even heard about that? I heard about it by accident myself, and it's not NEW.

Originally Posted by chloe24

Â* Â* Â*

Old-line Republican warns 'something's in the works' to trigger a police state

Raw Story | July 20, 2007
Muriel Kane

Thom Hartmann began his program on Thursday by reading from a new Executive Order which allows the government to seize the assets of anyone who interferes with its Iraq policies.

He then introduced old-line conservative Paul Craig Roberts -- a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan who has recently become known for his strong opposition to the Bush administration and the Iraq War -- by quoting the "strong words" which open Roberts' latest column : "Unless Congress immediately impeaches Bush and Cheney, a year from now the US could be a dictatorial police state at war with Iran."

"I don't actually think they're very strong," said Roberts of his words. "I get a lot of flak that they're understated and the situation is worse than I say. ... When Bush exercises this authority [under the new Executive Order] ... there's no check to it. It doesn't have to be ratified by Congress. The people who bear the brunt of these dictatorial police state actions have no recourse to the judiciary. So it really is a form of total, absolute, one-man rule. ... The American people don't really understand the danger that they face."

Roberts said that because of Bush's unpopularity, the Republicans face a total wipeout in 2008, and this may be why "the Democrats have not brought a halt to Bush's follies or the war, because they expect his unpopular policies to provide them with a landslide victory in next year's election."

However, Roberts emphasized, "the problem with this reasoning is that it assumes that Cheney and Rove and the Republicans are ignorant of these facts, or it assumes that they are content for the Republican Party to be destroyed after Bush has his fling." Roberts believes instead that Cheney and Rove intend to use a renewal of the War on Terror to rally the American people around the Republican Party. "Something's in the works," he said, adding that the Executive Orders need to create a police state are already in place.

"The administration figures themselves and prominent Republican propagandists ... are preparing us for another 9/11 event or series of events," Roberts continued. "Chertoff has predicted them. ... The National Intelligence Estimate is saying that al Qaeda has regrouped. ... You have to count on the fact that if al Qaeda's not going to do it, it's going to be orchestrated. ... The Republicans are praying for another 9/11."

Hartmann asked what we as the people can do if impeachment isn't about to happen. "If enough people were suspicious and alert, it would be harder for the administration to get away with it," Roberts replied. However, he added, "I don't think these wake-up calls are likely to be effective," pointing out the dominance of the mainstream media.

"Americans think their danger is terrorists," said Roberts. "They don't understand the terrorists cannot take away habeas corpus, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution. ... The terrorists are not anything like the threat that we face to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution from our own government in the name of fighting terrorism. Americans just aren't able to perceive that." (My note--these are the things Bush and Co. have taken or are still working on taking away from us.)

Roberts pointed out that it's old-line Republicans like himself, former Reagan associate deputy attorney general Bruce Fein, and Pat Buchanan who are the diehards in warning of the danger. "It's so obvious to people like us who have long been associated in the corridors of power," he said. "There's no belief in the people or anything like that. They have agendas. The people are in the way. The Constitution is in the way.... Americans need to comprehend and look at how ruthless Cheney is. ... A person like that would do anything."

Roberts final suggestion was that, in the absence of a massive popular outcry, "the only constraints on what's going to happen will come from the federal bureaucracy and perhaps the military. They may have had enough. They may not go along with it."

Â* Â* Â* Â*
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/pol ... _state.htm

Count me as a tin-hatter. Three years ago I voted for Bush because I believed he was a Christian who was seeking God's guidance. I was so blind!! Since then, I have come 180 degrees to the opposite conclusion. At first, I couldn't believe all the conspiracy stuff about Bush and the New World Order... I though these conspiracy folks were nuts! I couldn't understand what the motivation would be for Bush and others to bring this about. Surely they had America's best interest at heart!

Now, I have seen so many things that ONLY make sense when looked at in light of the NWO. I still don't get the motivation unless it's simply a desire for power, but I don't have to understand that. Why else would Bush leave our borders standing wide open as an invitation to whomever when we are supposedly in the middle of a "war against terror"?! The recent Executive Orders are terrifying to me, especially when combined with the so called "Patriot" Act. Our government can, under the Patriot Act, detain anyone of us without having a real reason. Now that the president can declare martial law for a "disturbance," all we need is for another terrorist attack to take place to set all of this in motion, and with Chertoff's "gut feeling" that could come at any time. They are setting us up for it to happen! I'm not sure we'll even GET to the 2008 elections. We may not have a chance to elect someone else, unless "they" make sure we're electing the person they want us to. I'm guessing they are feeling pressured to get their agenda moving along, since they can't count on the American people to sit back and take it anymore. We really surprised them when we rose up against the immigration bill in June, but they continue to hope that we won't see where all of this is leading.

I think that the reasons it is so hard for us as Americans to believe this kind of thing is that 1) We ARE Americans and we have a great history and a Constitution and we "just don't do things that way," and 2) that if we believe these things really ARE happening, then we HAVE to do something about it, and it's so much more comfortable to not believe it, and to just go along our merry way with our lives. And illegal immigration IS a part of this, because "they" are using it to further their goals.

nntrixie wrote

Right now, I am wondering about all the raids to round up illegals we are hearing about. What is that all about? They haven't been doing it all this time. Why now after their bill didn't pass. They are upset with the American people, they wanted all these people made legal - so why are they trying to show us just how tough they are?

I don't know, but dollars to donuts, it has nothing whatsoever to do with enforcing the laws - or making our country safe?

I think this new rounding up of illegals is just a show, as DcSA said, so that they can say, "Look we tried enforcing the law, but it just didn't work," and then they'll go back to business as usual. I guarantee you, they don't do anything without a reason, and it's highly unlikely to be the reason they want us to think it is.

All of this and more is why I'm so stuck on Ron Paul for President. If we actually get to have a real election, he is the only choice in my book. He is such a strict Constitutionalist that he would undo a lot of this junk. Unfortunately though, I'm afraid if he gets the nomination, he'll get the same as JFK and MLK. He is too much of a threat to the NWO people. I like Tancredo and Hunter okay, but I think they are too mainstream. We need someone who is not afraid to buck this conspiracy. I think this is part of the reason for Dr. Paul's popularity with the young folks. They can spot a phony a mile away. And to you tenacious Tancredo and Hunter supporters, I am not starting a debate on this in this thread. Take that somewhere else. It's just that all of this conspiracy stuff is what has lead me to support Ron Paul so vigorously.

DcSA & imblest


I had not heard about that latest revelation.

This book I read is entitled "High Treason" and has a slightly different take.

It suggests the CIA did it - and it mentions the Hunt connection - and others.

This books seems to say that Nixon had something to do with it and states that he was actually in Dallas on that day. I had never heard that.

This author kinda lost me for a while when he suggests it was just 'right-wing, ultra white people' behind it.

It suggests, and I have read this before, one of the tramps was a man named Harrelson, father of actor Woody Harrelson, who was convicted of assissinating a judge in San Antonio.

I do not understand how anyone could not consider the possibility of some kind of conspiracy in what is happening right now.

Why would any American politician want to ruin this country? I mean to literally destroy it? Many of them aiding and abetting would not do this just for money - I am convinced of that. It has to be more - an idealogy - a threat - a promise of power in the 'new era'? I don't know, but it's there.

nntrixie, I had not heard anything about this Hunt deal with JFK, but I guess I'm not surprised. And as for the 9/11 conspiracy theory, I think the feds knew something was up; beyond that, I haven't read up on it, but at this point, nothing would surprise me. It really hurts my heart to believe that people would want to destroy our nation and our way of life as well, but this whole bush fiasco has convinced me that anything is possible! The bottom line is, no matter what we think about their motives or can bring ourselves to believe, like you said, "It's there."

I have a dear friend who is a member of the John Birch Society, and I have been with her to several meetings. I find myself in agreement with their goals, but some of the stuff they believe about conspiracies in the past that continue today are just beyond me. Stuff about the Bildabergers, Masons, Bohemian Grove, Skull & Bones (which the Bush presidents are members of). My friend says they have the documentation, and she is a real stickler for stuff like that, so I know it must be convincing. Still, I have problems with their motivations, but if it's really happening, I can't concern myself with their motivations. After what I've come to see in the last few years, I guess anything is possible. We just have to keep fighting!

imblest

I would give a pretty penny to have all my Mother's old newspapers she used to get about such things.

We used to tease her about her 'subversive' literature. She talked about the Bildaberger, the Rockerfellers and the Rothchilds - 50 years ago.

Some of the things that were predicted back then has happened and is happening - in the way of globalization and the downfall of the middle class, etc. Also, the 'plastic society' as in the debit cards, etc. It seemed so farfetched back then, but we just accept it now.

Some companies demand that you have direct deposit and SS demands it -


This wasn't the John Birch Society - don't remember much about it other than that.

I do know that my Mother and Stepfather were pretty active in local politics on the Republican side. They worked to an extent on the state level also.

She, however, had a real fear and distrust of the Bushes - - back in the 70's. She didn't say what prompted it, but there was something.


Years ago, my Grandfather railed against SS when it was first enacted.
My Mother told a story of her being just a little kid with him at the small country store. All the men were just singing the praises of SS and how wonderful it was.

My Grandfather told them, 'There will be a time when you won't be able to have a bank account, borrow money, buy land, etc., without showing that number.'

She said they all laughed at him, called him a nut, etc. You see the first SS cards were labelled 'Not to be used for identification'. He was right.

We Americans think in short terms. We think in sound bites, in 30 minute or 1 hour solutions on TV of every legal, medical and social problem we have. We can't get a handle on the fact that some people would work their entire lives to further a cause they know will not come to fruition in their grandchildren's lifetime.

Americans also think because we have 24/7 news from CNN and others that we are getting the story. Rather than getting the story, we are getting brainwashed.

Many Texans that I talked with knew there was something not quite right about the whole thing - especially the shooting of Oswald by Jack Ruby.
Now it is true that security was a little more informal back in those days and he possibly could have gotten in to do the deed. The fact is, if it had been on the up and up - he would have left dead. Policemen were a different kind back then.

Years ago, my Grandfather railed against SS when it was first enacted.
My Mother told a story of her being just a little kid with him at the small country store. All the men were just singing the praises of SS and how wonderful it was.

This makes me laugh. One of my grand uncles refused to get a social security number for the same reasons. When doing family research, I couldn't find him in the death register (SS) and an uncle told me why. Being a farmer, and not trusting banks either, he was able to live without getting a number.

If you really think about it, distrust of the government goes back a long ways and is VERY AMERICAN.

Three years ago I voted for Bush because I believed he was a Christian who was seeking God's guidance. I was so blind!! Since then, I have come 180 degrees to the opposite conclusion.

My Messianic Pastor used to think Bush was a Christian seeking G-d's guidance, but his view has changed so radically that he told me several weeks ago he wouldn't give 2 cents for any of the politicians in Washington. We haven't had a good man in Washington since Davy Crockett. He thinks we won't be able to solve the problem by political means anymore because the corruption is too far rampant.

I'll leave the details of what he sees happening once Americans fully awaken to this horror to your imagination. We aren't allowed to discuss that subject here.

He thinks we won't be able to solve the problem by political means anymore because the corruption is too far rampant.





I don't think we will have a satisfactory solution to the immigration problem through politics. I think Americans are going to have to go after the employers themselves. In getting together and not buying the products.

It isn't a popular subject now, though.

My Grandfather refused to get a SS# for many years. He never really worked for a salary. He was very much a free spirit.

He always said, 'As long as I have my two hands, my family won't starve.' and 'Any honest work is honorable work and the dirt I get on me from honest labor, will always wash off.'

He hauled for the railroad on a load by load basis, but they finally told him if he was to continue, he would have to get a SS # and he did.

Actually, I always say I am in good company when I distrust the federal government. The framers of the constitution didn't trust a central government either. They tried very hard to put real restrictions on what they could or couldn't do. I am sure some people began trying to undo that before the ink was dry.


They have used everything from slavery, prohibition, civil rights, war on drugs, 'for the children', welfare, education, gun control, security, and wars and more wars to get more and more power residing in a central government.

Originally Posted by imblest

Originally Posted by chloe24

Â* Â* Â*

Old-line Republican warns 'something's in the works' to trigger a police state

Raw Story | July 20, 2007
Muriel Kane

Thom Hartmann began his program on Thursday by reading from a new Executive Order which allows the government to seize the assets of anyone who interferes with its Iraq policies.

He then introduced old-line conservative Paul Craig Roberts -- a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan who has recently become known for his strong opposition to the Bush administration and the Iraq War -- by quoting the "strong words" which open Roberts' latest column : "Unless Congress immediately impeaches Bush and Cheney, a year from now the US could be a dictatorial police state at war with Iran."

"I don't actually think they're very strong," said Roberts of his words. "I get a lot of flak that they're understated and the situation is worse than I say. ... When Bush exercises this authority [under the new Executive Order] ... there's no check to it. It doesn't have to be ratified by Congress. The people who bear the brunt of these dictatorial police state actions have no recourse to the judiciary. So it really is a form of total, absolute, one-man rule. ... The American people don't really understand the danger that they face."

Roberts said that because of Bush's unpopularity, the Republicans face a total wipeout in 2008, and this may be why "the Democrats have not brought a halt to Bush's follies or the war, because they expect his unpopular policies to provide them with a landslide victory in next year's election."

However, Roberts emphasized, "the problem with this reasoning is that it assumes that Cheney and Rove and the Republicans are ignorant of these facts, or it assumes that they are content for the Republican Party to be destroyed after Bush has his fling." Roberts believes instead that Cheney and Rove intend to use a renewal of the War on Terror to rally the American people around the Republican Party. "Something's in the works," he said, adding that the Executive Orders need to create a police state are already in place.

"The administration figures themselves and prominent Republican propagandists ... are preparing us for another 9/11 event or series of events," Roberts continued. "Chertoff has predicted them. ... The National Intelligence Estimate is saying that al Qaeda has regrouped. ... You have to count on the fact that if al Qaeda's not going to do it, it's going to be orchestrated. ... The Republicans are praying for another 9/11."

Hartmann asked what we as the people can do if impeachment isn't about to happen. "If enough people were suspicious and alert, it would be harder for the administration to get away with it," Roberts replied. However, he added, "I don't think these wake-up calls are likely to be effective," pointing out the dominance of the mainstream media.

"Americans think their danger is terrorists," said Roberts. "They don't understand the terrorists cannot take away habeas corpus, the Bill of Rights, the Constitution. ... The terrorists are not anything like the threat that we face to the Bill of Rights and the Constitution from our own government in the name of fighting terrorism. Americans just aren't able to perceive that." (My note--these are the things Bush and Co. have taken or are still working on taking away from us.)

Roberts pointed out that it's old-line Republicans like himself, former Reagan associate deputy attorney general Bruce Fein, and Pat Buchanan who are the diehards in warning of the danger. "It's so obvious to people like us who have long been associated in the corridors of power," he said. "There's no belief in the people or anything like that. They have agendas. The people are in the way. The Constitution is in the way.... Americans need to comprehend and look at how ruthless Cheney is. ... A person like that would do anything."

Roberts final suggestion was that, in the absence of a massive popular outcry, "the only constraints on what's going to happen will come from the federal bureaucracy and perhaps the military. They may have had enough. They may not go along with it."

Â* Â* Â* Â*
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/pol ... _state.htm

Count me as a tin-hatter. Three years ago I voted for Bush because I believed he was a Christian who was seeking God's guidance. I was so blind!! Since then, I have come 180 degrees to the opposite conclusion. At first, I couldn't believe all the conspiracy stuff about Bush and the New World Order... I though these conspiracy folks were nuts! I couldn't understand what the motivation would be for Bush and others to bring this about. Surely they had America's best interest at heart!

Now, I have seen so many things that ONLY make sense when looked at in light of the NWO. I still don't get the motivation unless it's simply a desire for power, but I don't have to understand that. Why else would Bush leave our borders standing wide open as an invitation to whomever when we are supposedly in the middle of a "war against terror"?! The recent Executive Orders are terrifying to me, especially when combined with the so called "Patriot" Act. Our government can, under the Patriot Act, detain anyone of us without having a real reason. Now that the president can declare martial law for a "disturbance," all we need is for another terrorist attack to take place to set all of this in motion, and with Chertoff's "gut feeling" that could come at any time. They are setting us up for it to happen! I'm not sure we'll even GET to the 2008 elections. We may not have a chance to elect someone else, unless "they" make sure we're electing the person they want us to. I'm guessing they are feeling pressured to get their agenda moving along, since they can't count on the American people to sit back and take it anymore. We really surprised them when we rose up against the immigration bill in June, but they continue to hope that we won't see where all of this is leading.

I think that the reasons it is so hard for us as Americans to believe this kind of thing is that 1) We ARE Americans and we have a great history and a Constitution and we "just don't do things that way," and 2) that if we believe these things really ARE happening, then we HAVE to do something about it, and it's so much more comfortable to not believe it, and to just go along our merry way with our lives. And illegal immigration IS a part of this, because "they" are using it to further their goals.

nntrixie wrote

Right now, I am wondering about all the raids to round up illegals we are hearing about. What is that all about? They haven't been doing it all this time. Why now after their bill didn't pass. They are upset with the American people, they wanted all these people made legal - so why are they trying to show us just how tough they are?

I don't know, but dollars to donuts, it has nothing whatsoever to do with enforcing the laws - or making our country safe?

I think this new rounding up of illegals is just a show, as DcSA said, so that they can say, "Look we tried enforcing the law, but it just didn't work," and then they'll go back to business as usual. I guarantee you, they don't do anything without a reason, and it's highly unlikely to be the reason they want us to think it is.

All of this and more is why I'm so stuck on Ron Paul for President. If we actually get to have a real election, he is the only choice in my book. He is such a strict Constitutionalist that he would undo a lot of this junk. Unfortunately though, I'm afraid if he gets the nomination, he'll get the same as JFK and MLK. He is too much of a threat to the NWO people. I like Tancredo and Hunter okay, but I think they are too mainstream. We need someone who is not afraid to buck this conspiracy. I think this is part of the reason for Dr. Paul's popularity with the young folks. They can spot a phony a mile away. And to you tenacious Tancredo and Hunter supporters, I am not starting a debate on this in this thread. Take that somewhere else. It's just that all of this conspiracy stuff is what has lead me to support Ron Paul so vigorously.

Well good for you imblest! But don't be too hard on yourself. Many people were decieved. The important thing was that you woke up!

I think the trouble with a lot of Americans today, is that we've forgotten to think for ourselves. We're so conditioned by ideology - whether you're a liberal or a conservative, that we go along with this "group think" mentality rather than thinking independentally.

I was just talking about this today with my father. Because we've become reliant on our government due to all of the social programs, it's beome sort of like a "surrogate parent." That it will always be there to take care of us. We then become conditioned to believe that it can never do us any harm. But I've learned from Ron Paul that the founding fathers warned us to ALWAYS QUESTION THE GOVERNMENT.

I also believe that those of us who have "woken up" , are obligated to help educate those that are still clueless as to what is really going on. That's just my opinion.

Ron Paul says a lot of things I like - I just wish I really knew how he stood on illegal immigration. It is my understanding that libertarians are not too harsh on the subject.

Maybe I need to look a little closer at his ideas on the subject.

To me, it is the worst danger of all we have facing us. If it were just the fact we have this many here, we might could change that. It is the fact they are being used to bankrupt the country and the American families and to demolish the middle class.

Everyone wants to think our huge debt is just because of the war and to an extent it is - but a lot of it simply has to be the cost of illegal immigration. We taxpayers are not paying enough to support these people, and our bloated government - so they have to be cared for on borrowed money - from China, no less.

Also, the illegals are destroying the rule of law in this country. You can't allow laws to be systemically broken without all other laws seeming like suggestions rather than laws. They are laws until they inconvenience someone - and then if we can find some touchy-feely idea, they are ignored.