Thread: Barack Obama's citizenship questioned

Originally Posted by MinutemanCDC_SC

USPatriot asks if the birther debate is possibly being fueled by left-wingers to divert us from more important issues.

May I assure you that is not the case.

Some people who have recently broken out of the downstream media "cone of silence" think that this all started recently. But the public questioning of Mr. Obama's Constitutional qualification as a natural born citizen has been raging since early 2007. In June, 2008, shortly after the Daily K0s and FactCheck posted the altered Certification, WorldNetDaily brought this defrauding of America to America's attention, through the huge WND readership.

USPatriot, you can blame me for it. I began this thread the day after the election, posting several detailed and documented overviews that I had written elsewhere before that time. My posts have continued to keep this thread going through some lean news periods since then. You can paint your target on me. I'm fueling this thread, as are HighlanderJuan, cayla99, FreedomFirst, TexasBorn, 93Camaro, and several other patriots. I can say with absolute certainty that on ALIPAC, the "birther debate" is not being fueled by left-wingers, but by truth-seekers who support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I have seen no evidence of such "provocateur" activities elsewhere, either. The Obama camp and fellow travelers have enough Achilles' heels that they wouldn't advertise their vulnerabilities.

The "not natural born citizen" "bogus POTUS" is a fountainhead from which stream the many major problem issues:

• pro-Is|am / anti-Israel;
  Marxism / socialism / communism, and "economic stimuli" (rhymes with "fungi") funded by printing fiat money;
  government takings of the financial sector and the automotive industry;
  nationalization of healthcare;
  drafting hospitals and their employees as abortion providers, violating religious rights and freedom of conscience;
  same-sex marriage and adoptions, having a gay day/night in the White House, promoting the unveiling of homosexuals in the military;
  standing down the military in Iraq and cutting the military budget (e.g., the F-22) while bureaucracy and social spending balloons; etc..

Without the popular but Constitutionally ineligible Barack Obama on the November 4 ticket, there wouldn't be a super-majority in Congress to push the "destroy America" agenda. There wouldn't be a 100% liberal in the Oval Office to sign off on the theft of America by Congress. When the courts rule that Mr. Obama is Constitutionally unqualified for office, Rep. Nancy Pelosi and DNC Secretary Alice Travis Germond go to prison for perjury.

I've explained to single-issue PACs until I'm blue in the face,
to keep your group from being kicked to the curb, unite with the other aggrieved single-issue PACs to get the unlawful impostor out of the office of the President, for which only a natural born citizen qualifies -
and that he ain't!

Minuteman

In no way was I suggesting anyone on ALIPAC is a far left Dem.I think your intentions are honorable.

Did you read the WRH article I posted ? It refutes the latest Birth Certificate item by item.

I think this BC debate was thoroughly investigated by the other Presidential Canidates and if there was any truth to his possibly not being a citizen it would have been exposed by them.

Originally Posted by USPatriot

Originally Posted by MinutemanCDC_SC

USPatriot asks if the birther debate is possibly being fueled by left-wingers to divert us from more important issues.

May I assure you that is not the case.

Some people who have recently broken out of the downstream media "cone of silence" think that this all started recently. But the public questioning of Mr. Obama's Constitutional qualification as a natural born citizen has been raging since early 2007. In June, 2008, shortly after the Daily K0s and FactCheck posted the altered Certification, WorldNetDaily brought this defrauding of America to America's attention, through the huge WND readership.

USPatriot, you can blame me for it. I began this thread the day after the election, posting several detailed and documented overviews that I had written elsewhere before that time. My posts have continued to keep this thread going through some lean news periods since then. You can paint your target on me. I'm fueling this thread, as are HighlanderJuan, cayla99, FreedomFirst, TexasBorn, 93Camaro, and several other patriots. I can say with absolute certainty that on ALIPAC, the "birther debate" is not being fueled by left-wingers, but by truth-seekers who support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I have seen no evidence of such "provocateur" activities elsewhere, either. The Obama camp and fellow travelers have enough Achilles' heels that they wouldn't advertise their vulnerabilities.

The "not natural born citizen" "bogus POTUS" is a fountainhead from which stream the many major problem issues:

• pro-Is|am / anti-Israel;
  Marxism / socialism / communism, and "economic stimuli" (rhymes with "fungi") funded by printing fiat money;
  government takings of the financial sector and the automotive industry;
  nationalization of healthcare;
  drafting hospitals and their employees as abortion providers, violating religious rights and freedom of conscience;
  same-sex marriage and adoptions, having a gay day/night in the White House, promoting the unveiling of homosexuals in the military;
  standing down the military in Iraq and cutting the military budget (e.g., the F-22) while bureaucracy and social spending balloons; etc..

Without the popular but Constitutionally ineligible Barack Obama on the November 4 ticket, there wouldn't be a super-majority in Congress to push the "destroy America" agenda. There wouldn't be a 100% liberal in the Oval Office to sign off on the theft of America by Congress. When the courts rule that Mr. Obama is Constitutionally unqualified for office, Rep. Nancy Pelosi and DNC Secretary Alice Travis Germond go to prison for perjury.

I've explained to single-issue PACs until I'm blue in the face,
to keep your group from being kicked to the curb, unite with the other aggrieved single-issue PACs to get the unlawful impostor out of the office of the President, for which only a natural born citizen qualifies -
and that he ain't!

Minuteman

In no way was I suggesting anyone on ALIPAC is a far left Dem.I think your intentions are honorable.

Did you read the WRH article I posted ? It refutes the latest Birth Certificate item by item.

I think this BC debate was thoroughly investigated by the other Presidential Canidates and if there was any truth to his possibly not being a citizen it would have been exposed by them.

Patriot, with all due respect, you are assuming that the other candidates were sufficiently motivated to fully investigate and disclose those results to the public. I would ask the following:
1) where would one go to review the evidence of any such investigation?
2) given the heated debate and division that this issue has created, wouldn't it be in the best interest of all parties to have this information made available?

Many of us are simple people with simple questions...provide us reliable evidence of constitutional eligibility and we will stand down. Unfortunately, to even the simplest of people who have made the honest effort to seek the truth, this man doesn't pass the smell test.

Please forgive me for this posting if it is way out of bounds but I thought it was a refreshing take. I just came across this on my backup drive. It is a paper written by my 12 yr. old daughter for a school class. You can see the obvious influence the liberal teachers have on our children by the opening lines. This paper was written without any input from me. With just a little research there are some interesting tidbits even my 12 yr. old found. The only thing I added were the quotation marks at beginning and end.

" I believe that America's future would be best in the hands of Barack Obama, one of the leading candidates of the democrat party along with Hillary Clinton. He has had much experience in politics and has experienced many hardships throughout his life that will strengthen him in his presidency.
Barack Hussein Obama Jr. was born on August 4th, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii to his Kenyan father, Barack Obama Sr., and his mother, Ann Dunham. Barack's father was a goat herder who was born and raised in Kenya, along with his Barack's grandfather, who was a domestic servant to the British. Barack's mother grew up in a small town in Kansas and had parents who both played a part in WWII. Ann Dunham's father worked on oil rigs during the Depression, and then later enlisted in the army in WWII after the bombing at Pearl Harbor. Her mother worked on the bomber assembly line.
Obama's father earned a scholarship to pursue his dreams in America, and it was at the University of Hawaii where he met Ann Dunham and got married. When Obama was two years old, his parents divorced and his father returned to Kenya and his mother got married to Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian student she met at the University of Hawaii. The family moved to Jakarta, Indonesia where Obama studied at an Indonesian school from the ages of six to ten years old. When Obama was ten, he moved back to Hawaii to live with his grandparents for educational purposes, and he attended the esteemed Punahou Academy, graduating with honors. Obama got to see his father one last time before he died in 1982.
Obama then moved to Los Angeles, California and studied at Occidental College for two years before moving to New York to go to Columbia University where he graduated in 1983 with a degree in political science.
After graduating, Obama worked at the Business International Corporation and NYPIRG, then moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer. He became Director of the Developing Communities Project, working with poor workers in Chicago's Roseland Community. In 1988 Obama went to Harvard Law School, became the first black president of the Harvard Law Review in 1990, and graduated Magna Cum Laude in 1991.
In 1995, Obama wrote his memoir Dreams of My Father just a few months before his mother died of ovarian cancer. When Obama returned to Chicago, he conducted a voter registration drive. He became an associate attorney to Miner, Barnhall and Galland from '93 to '96, representing community organizers, discrimination claims, and voting rights cases. He also gave lectures of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until he became elected to the Senate in 2004.
Although there are several political issues that Obama has spoken of, three of the biggest ones are the war in Iraq, immigration, and crime.
Obama has opposed the war in Iraq since day one, and he spoke against the Bush Administration, saying that the war would "require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undermined cost, with undetermined consequences." He believes that the only way to resolve the conflict is if the Shias, Sunnis and Kurds gather and set aside their differences. Obama joined the Iraq Study Group, and they came up with the conclusion that a steady withdrawal of American troops would be best for Iraq and the U.S. Senator Obama proposed the “Iraq War De-Escalation Actâ€

Originally Posted by HighlanderJuan

Screw it. I turned in Hawaii Department of Health.

================

Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 10:13 AM
To: 'flag@whitehouse.gov'
Subject: FW: Re: STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.

Linda Douglass,

As our new disinformation czar, and from your web site (http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Ar ... rn-Things/) it is my understanding that you are trying to assure the information sourced by the government, and about the government and its employees, is accurate and truthful, and that there is no disinformation left unchallenged and uncorrected. I want to help assure that only complete, accurate, and legal information is made available from the government to the public and vice versa.

On August 2, 2009, I sent an e-mail to the Hawaii Department of Health requesting a legal clarification, in some detail, of a press release provided by Dr. Fukino on the subject of her defining Mr.. Obama's citizenship status as a 'natural born American citizen' (see http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf). My original e-mail request, as well as the response I received from the Hawaii Department of Health, are found below.

The e-mail response from Hawaii Department of Health is clearly non-responsive to my specific informational requests and is additionally composed of only incomplete and non-responsive disinformation.

I request that you review the e-mail response to me and reply with the appropriate and legally responsive answers to my questions. Additionally, it would be helpful for you to advise the Hawaii Department of Health to provide only legally sound responses to requests for department information.

Thank you.

===========

See my earlier post for actual e-mail content.

Highlander, I had to smile when I saw your post. Looks like you had one of those W T F moments Seems like I'm having a lot of those myself lately. It's a long trail and thank God for those who can stay the course. I would give my "Obama Commemorative Plate" to be a fly on the wall with Orly right now, although I'm not holding out much hope that she will be successful. There are just too many people with too much to lose and disinformation can only take them so far before other less tasteful means are employed.

Originally Posted by TexasBorn

Originally Posted by HighlanderJuan

Screw it. I turned in Hawaii Department of Health.

================

Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 10:13 AM
To: 'flag@whitehouse.gov'
Subject: FW: Re: STATEMENT BY HEALTH DIRECTOR CHIYOME FUKINO, M.D.

Linda Douglass,

As our new disinformation czar, and from your web site (http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/Facts-Ar ... rn-Things/) it is my understanding that you are trying to assure the information sourced by the government, and about the government and its employees, is accurate and truthful, and that there is no disinformation left unchallenged and uncorrected. I want to help assure that only complete, accurate, and legal information is made available from the government to the public and vice versa.

On August 2, 2009, I sent an e-mail to the Hawaii Department of Health requesting a legal clarification, in some detail, of a press release provided by Dr. Fukino on the subject of her defining Mr.. Obama's citizenship status as a 'natural born American citizen' (see http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2009/09-063.pdf). My original e-mail request, as well as the response I received from the Hawaii Department of Health, are found below.

The e-mail response from Hawaii Department of Health is clearly non-responsive to my specific informational requests and is additionally composed of only incomplete and non-responsive disinformation.

I request that you review the e-mail response to me and reply with the appropriate and legally responsive answers to my questions. Additionally, it would be helpful for you to advise the Hawaii Department of Health to provide only legally sound responses to requests for department information.

Thank you.

===========

See my earlier post for actual e-mail content.

Highlander, I had to smile when I saw your post. Looks like you had one of those W T F moments Seems like I'm having a lot of those myself lately. It's a long trail and thank God for those who can stay the course. I would give my "Obama Commemorative Plate" to be a fly on the wall with Orly right now, although I'm not holding out much hope that she will be successful. There are just too many people with too much to lose and disinformation can only take them so far before other less tasteful means are employed.

DOH's Fukino treads where even the Department of State fears to tread:

Sayeth State Department: "The American parents of a child born abroad should report the birth to the Consulate General. The Consulate General will issue a Consular Report of Birth Abroad (Form FS-240), and a U.S. passport. The Report of Birth Abroad may be used as a birth certificate for school, work, or other purposes."

Further: "the fact that someone is a natural born citizen pursuant to a statute does not necessarily imply that he or she is such a citizen for Constitutional purposes."

The truly odd thing is that the statutes are all over the place about native born and "citizen at birth" yada yada ... but I'd like either State Dept or Hawaii DOH to find a section of U.S. Code governing citizenship that comes right out and says the statute is conferring "natural born" citizenship. As Donofrio says, "natural born" is a STATUS to which one is born and not a "right" that Congress can cook up and confer to people with a Serving of Statute.

Don't look now, but World Net Daily is backing away from this certificate:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106135

NEW YORK – The Kenyan birth document released by California attorney Orly Taitz is probably not authentic, according to WND's investigative operatives in Africa, though officials in Nairobi do not rule out the possibility President Obama may indeed have been born in their country.

WND obtained several samples of Kenyan birth certificates in use around Aug. 4, 1961, the date of Obama's birth, showing differences from the Taitz document.

This whole issue has been plagued by "too good to be true" assertions that later get discredited. I feel bad for people who get their hopes up. Politics is the art of the possible, and sometimes we have to pick our battles. Right now, Obama is totally vulnerable on the issue of handling the economy, specifically jobs, and it seems to me that people are focusing on the birth issue and missing that.

I only leaned towards him because the other side had a 'let them eat cake' attitude towards the American middle class, but I will turn on anyone who turns his back on the American worker, who sorely needs help right now and is the only resource that can save this nation.

From: http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/

(Once you get past the "Reported Attack Site!" notice)

===================

The Kenya BC, that I am seeking to be authenticated, is more plausible then the short version HI BC posted by Obama
August 5th, 2009
FreeRepublic.com

August 5, 2009

by BP2

Few people know the prima facie facts tied to the Obama’s mother’s 1964 and 1980 divorces as well as a handful of us here on Free Republic. I know it probably better than most.

When I started looking at the date (Feb 17, 1964) on this new Kenyan birth certificate, I immediately started comparing it with the dates of the 1964 divorce between Obama’s mother and father – TRYING to REFUTE the Kenyan birth certificate. Was it at all PLAUSIBLE, at least based upon what we know as prima facie facts, confirmed by an independent source – such as a judge in a divorce case? If you wish to refer back to this initial comparison, the information is on Post 2,222 of the Free Republic thread “Is this really it? (re: possible Obama’s Kenyan B.C.)â€

Originally Posted by BetsyRoss

Don't look now, but World Net Daily is backing away from this certificate:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106135

NEW YORK – The Kenyan birth document released by California attorney Orly Taitz is probably not authentic, according to WND's investigative operatives in Africa, though officials in Nairobi do not rule out the possibility President Obama may indeed have been born in their country.

WND obtained several samples of Kenyan birth certificates in use around Aug. 4, 1961, the date of Obama's birth, showing differences from the Taitz document.

This whole issue has been plagued by "too good to be true" assertions that later get discredited. I feel bad for people who get their hopes up. Politics is the art of the possible, and sometimes we have to pick our battles. Right now, Obama is totally vulnerable on the issue of handling the economy, specifically jobs, and it seems to me that people are focusing on the birth issue and missing that.

I only leaned towards him because the other side had a 'let them eat cake' attitude towards the American middle class, but I will turn on anyone who turns his back on the American worker, who sorely needs help right now and is the only resource that can save this nation.

Betsy, there should be no fear that the BC issue will derail or take away from the other keys issues in our country. After all, by the Democrats and MSM own assertions..."this birther thing is a fringe minority". The administration is doing a fair job of falling on their own sword without help from any of the fringe lunatics like us "birthers". It's fair to assume that the majority of those of us locked onto the eligibility issue are as concerned about the erosion of our constitutional government as we are about BO's eligibility. As I've suggested several times before, the problems plaguing our country aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. What they all have in common is a runaway government that adheres to the constitution only when it is convenient .

Wow, Reid and Schumer say the office of the Presidency is too important not to be transparent and that ALL records should be released. Of course they were referring to McCain in 2008. Videos found here:

http://www.tcunation.com/forum/topics/d ... d-reid-say

Transparency? You want stinkin' transparency?? Try this.

======================

Bill would force Obama to reveal birth documents
State senator: 'Why wouldn't they be available to the public?'
Posted: August 07, 2009
12:30 am Eastern

By Jerome R. Corsi
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106137

Hawaii state Sen. Will Espero, a Democrat, has confirmed plans to introduce legislation through which the state's lawmakers would force the public disclosure of all President Obama's birth documents held by the Hawaii Department of Health, including President Obama’s long-form original birth certificate.

Espero told WND his bill is aimed at "giving citizens access to birth records" under a standard of government transparency which would permit journalists to request in writing the public disclosure of vital birth records including long-form birth certificates of all persons born in Hawaii. He said it would include the release of birth records on those previously born in Hawaii.

"My decision to file the legislation was primarily a result of the fuss over President Obama's birth records and the lingering questions," Espero said.

Espero told WND that he believes President Obama was born in Hawaii.

"My motivation is strictly to promote transparency," he said. "When I found out that Hawaii birth records were not available to the public my first thought was, 'Why wouldn't they be available to the public?'

"As far as I am concerned, records regarding whether a person was born here or not should be in the public domain," he said.

Asked specifically about Obama's birth records, including the original long-form birth certificate, Espero said, "Whatever birth records regarding President Obama that the Hawaii Department has on file should be made public."

Espero emphasized that his legislation would make provisions to deal with security issues by making sure no information would be released that could aid criminals to commit identity theft.

Once his legislation is drafted, Espero said he would submit it to Hawaii Director of Health Dr. Chiyome Fukino for comment before introducing the legislation to the Hawaii state legislature.

WND previously reported that the Hawaii Department of Health destroyed no paper long-form original birth certificate records when the agency moved to electronic record keeping in 2001.

Get the eligibility movie that debuted on Obama's birthday! It's the DVD that probes this unprecedented presidential mystery!

"I am not aware of any birth certificate records that have been destroyed by the department," Janice Okubo, Public Information Officer for the Hawaii DOH, told WND.

"When the department went electronic in 2001, vital records whether in paper form or any other form have been maintained. We don't destroy records," she said.

Okubo affirmed that beginning in 2001, all vital records including birth records moved to electronic formats.

"Any records that we had in paper or any other form before 2001 are still in file within the department," she insisted. "We have not destroyed any vital statistics records that we have."

WND has also reported the Hawaiian Department of Health declined to authenticate either of the two versions of President Obama's short-form "Certification of Live Birth," posted online – one image produced by the Obama campaign and the other produced by FactCheck.org.

Okubu also had no explanation for why Dr. Chiyome Fukino's initial press release in her position as chief of the health department last October and subsequent press release on July 27 avoided declaring the posted images to be authentic documents.

WND has reported the Kenyan birth document released by California attorney Orly Taitz is probably not authentic, according to WND's investigative operatives in Africa.

That's even though officials in Nairobi do not rule out the possibility President Obama may indeed have been born in their country.

WND obtained several samples of Kenyan birth certificates in use around Aug. 4, 1961, the date of Obama's birth, showing differences from the Taitz document. Earlier Kenyan birth certificate samples obtained by WND had shown similarities to the Taitz document, but it was determined they were not contemporaneous.

WND reported Sunday on the document Taitz has been trying to authenticate.

She filed a motion in the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California requesting the purported evidence of Obama's birth – both the alleged birth certificate and foreign records not yet obtained – be preserved from destruction. She also asked for permission to legally request documents from Kenya and is seeking a subpoena for a deposition from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

"I filed the motion with the court asking for expedited discovery, which would allow me to start subpoenas and depositions even before Obama and the government responds," Taitz told WND then. "I am asking the judge to give me the power to subpoena the documents from the Kenyan embassy and to require a deposition from Hillary Clinton so they will be forced to authenticate [the birth certificate]."

A judge shortly later dismissed the document and Taitz' requests.

The document she revealed:


This document purports to be a Kenyan certification of birth for Barack Obama, allegedly born in Mombasa, Kenya, in 1961

But an authentic 1961-era Kenyan birth certificate obtained by WND shows distinct differences.



The verified 1961-era Kenyan birth certificate is described at the top as a "Government of Kenya" document. It includes: Where Born; Name or names; Sex; Father's occupation and rank; Father's nationality; Name and maiden name for mother; Mother's Occupation; Mother's nationality; Signature, description and residence of information; Date of birth; Date of registration; Baptismal name if added or altered after registration of birth; Reference to register.

Kenyan government officials interviewed by WND sources in Kenya have pointed out a key difference in the Taitz document. In 1961, Mombasa was a part of Zanzibar, not the Coast Province of Kenya. The area was later ceded to Kenya.

The Taitz document has sparked a firestorm of controversy over its authenticity.

According to a posting in the Washington Independent, a "source" said the document was nothing more than an alteration of a "certified copy of registration of birth" from an Australian "Bomford" document that also had been posted on the Internet.

WND has reported on dozens of legal challenges to Obama's status as a "natural born citizen." The Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, states, "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

Some of the lawsuits question whether he was actually born in Hawaii, as he insists. If he was born out of the country, Obama's American mother, the suits contend, was too young at the time of his birth to confer American citizenship to her son under the law at the time.

Other challenges have focused on Obama's citizenship through his father, a Kenyan subject to the jurisdiction of the United Kingdom at the time of his birth, thus making him a dual citizen. The cases contend the framers of the Constitution excluded dual citizens from qualifying as natural born.

Complicating the situation is Obama's decision to spend sums estimated in the hundreds of thousands of dollars to avoid releasing a state birth certificate that would put to rest all of the questions.

WND has reported that among the documentation not yet available for Obama includes kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records and adoption records.

The complete WND article is here:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106137